New wheels.. few spare spokes..?
I just took delivery of a pair of Shimano RS20 wheels. Very nice. Only problem is the dealer completely ignored my request for a 'few spare spokes' to be included and just sent the wheels. They don't have the spoke wrench either. Nobody on Google has the spoke wrench, TL-WH78, as a matter of fact... Is it just me, or...
What shall I do now? Thanks in advance.
What shall I do now? Thanks in advance.
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i'd doubt if you can get spare spokes for the RS20 too easily - certainly they will require a special order of sorts - one of the downfalls of factory wheels I would imagine.0
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Let me get this straight... I import wheels, but I don't import the spare parts..? This is an Industry Standard in this Country, is it? This is the level we have attained? Nobody is complaining to anyone about this?0
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fonebone3 wrote:Let me get this straight... I import wheels, but I don't import the spare parts..? This is an Industry Standard in this Country, is it? This is the level we have attained? Nobody is complaining to anyone about this?
They are factory wheelsets, if you want spare parts etc, most people go for handbuilts.0 -
reddraggon, with respect, that is no reply whatsoever. Cars are built in a factory. You try selling a car that can't be serviced and let me know how you get on. We use the same roads, by the way..0
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fonebone3 wrote:reddraggon, with respect, that is no reply whatsoever. Cars are built in a factory. You try selling a car that can't be serviced and let me know how you get on. We use the same roads, by the way..
If you use the search function, you'll find plenty of incidences of people damaging factory wheelsets and the cost of the parts to repair the wheels is nearly the price of the wheel. It's not just Shimano that have the problem, the problem also exists for Mavic and Campagnolo wheelsets
I like factory wheelsets, but their main shortcoming is the lack of spare parts for them, that's why you find some people still swear by handbuilts.
Unfortunately, factory wheelsets are often seen as "consumables" or "disposable items" - when they fail the company want you to buy a new set rather than get them repaired.0 -
The lack of spare parts is nothing to do with the manufacturers. The service manuals are freely available with spare parts numbered accordingly. It is to do with the lazy bike dealers who are failing in their responsibilities. Quite frankly, I think it's illegal.0
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good luck with the legality challenge - let us know how you get on.0
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well, i was thinking of retaining gkerr4 as my Solicitor to start with lol0
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i'm not very good - I only practice at it.
:-)
seriously though - you are right of course that spare parts should be readily available - especially so on some wheelsets of many hundreds of pounds - as do they really expect us to throw them away when a spoke breaks
i dunno - I guess i just take my chances - personally i've never had a spoke break - perhaps I'm lucky..0 -
It's the nature of factory wheels, especially cheap ones like the RS20, that normally it's more economical to replace the whole wheel rather than (e.g.) replace just the rim.
Parker shows them at £53 (front) and £63 (rear), so it wouldn't be the end of the world if you had to buy a totally new wheel. A b!tch I know, but factory wheelsets are not cars and don't come with easily accessible spares.
I can understand how annoying it'd be if just one spoke had broken and you had to replace the whole wheel because of it - but as I've said before it's the nature of factory wheels.
If "Repairability" is what you are after - get some handbuilts.0 -
With a cheep factory wheel you have to accept just throwing them away, probably not great for training on and hand builts do seem a better deal for that. With more expensive wheels you get longer warranties which should (I hope they do I didn't ask) cover things like broken spokes especially if they are going on about how durable a wheel it is.0
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Well, well, well.. I didn't realise I'd just stepped into a rich kid's dosh spending competition.. I thought we were discussing servicing vehicles.
At least I got it in writing.0 -
What a load of codswallop!
Would you throw a door out because one of the screws had become detached from the hinge?
I can see no reason why ANY wheels should not come with say 4/6 spare spokes, included in the price. - even if this means that a wheelset costs another £2- £3.Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom0 -
fonebone3 wrote:Well, well, well.. I didn't realise I'd just stepped into a rich kid's dosh spending competition.. I thought we were discussing servicing vehicles.
At least I got it in writing.
Huh? rich kid's dosh spending competition? RS20s are cheap compared to most other wheels - that's no reflection on their performance.
You bought the wheels, you asked for spokes, they didn't have them (I doubt many do), the problem is that they failed to tell you they weren't going to send any spokes?
People buy factory wheels because either, they look good, they are light, they are cheap, or they are aero, no one buys them because of their "fixability".0 -
NervexProf wrote:What a load of codswallop!
Would you throw a door out because one of the screws had become detached from the hinge?
I can see no reason why ANY wheels should not come with say 4/6 spare spokes, included in the price. - even if this means that a wheelset costs another £2- £3.
The reality is that factory wheels rarely come with spokes.
Another reality is that the manufacturers want you to buy a new wheelset when one wheel breaks.
What you say about extra spokes is right, and I agree that they should perhaps supply a few spare spokes (like Vuelta do) - but most don't and it's difficult to obtain spares - that's a reality.
Why do people think Handbuilts are still around?0 -
Hmmm... Mind Reader knows why I bought Factory Wheels...
..no matter, panic over.. I rang the local Shimano Service Centre, as any numb nut would do, phone number freely available from Shimano Website - I just hadn't got around to phoning it before, still concentrating on the original dealers... and I now have 2 spokes of both length's ordered plus the correct spoke wrench. £2.99 each plus £10. I charged ur card reddragon, i hope that's OK.0 -
I've got Campag Neutrons, and I've also got a spare spoke set. The spares were available from Total Cycling. Surely spares must be available for Shimano as well!0
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fonebone3 wrote:Well, well, well.. I didn't realise I'd just stepped into a rich kid's dosh spending competition.. I thought we were discussing servicing vehicles.
At least I got it in writing.
My feelings exactly. I haven't built myself a new bike since 1995 and it wasn't until I decided to treat myself this year I discovered how things had changed over the last 13 years. In the intervening years I've just ridden my bike without keeping a close eye on the more esoteric advances - if advances they really are.
The first indication to me of the position with these fancy wheels was earlier this year when a friend of mine (very mechanically adept indeed) was forced to retire in an audax and get his wife to drive out to pick him up because he'd broken a spoke! I couldn't believe that he was unable to retrue the wheel sufficiently to complete the ride. Don't know which wheel it was but it had to be returned to the manufacturer for repair. This is the action of someone who has a small machine shop in his garage and makes some of his own bike fittings! We more normal mortals don't have a chance.
That experience alone was enough for me to go my usual route and build my own wheels with 105 hubs and Mavic Open Pro rims. I thought I was being a bit radical by only using 32 spokes per wheel
The latest Cycling+ has an interesting review of factory built wheels. One of the most expensive at £449 a pair is described as being 'not seviceable'! I find that to be scandalous. Many of the wheels had spoke availability described as 'to order' which I take to mean 'not a snowflake's in hell chance of getting one at all'. I cannot understand why people buy such expensive bling. One saying comes to mind that includes words like 'more money' and 'sense'. At least a few has spokes described as 'readily available' and they would be the only ones I'd even consider buying.
There may be a place for wheels like these in a fully supported racing team where spare wheels and the mechanics to care for them follow the riders in cars festooned with wheel racks but they would seem to have no place on a bike used by an amateur riding/training alone. Is the idea of self reliance completely abandoned?
I can only think that people are being conned into believing that equipment designed to offer tiny fractions of a second advantage in an extremely competitive environment is essential for normal riding. Perhaps they think it obviates the need to suffer and train hard.
I was going to finish by saying 'words fail me' but I'd be wrong, they obviously didn't
GeoffOld cyclists never die; they just fit smaller chainrings ... and pedal faster0 -
Hmmm... I am not alone then, same situation as Geoff_SS...
..a thing that swayed me tho, over the 2 weeks agonising over which wheels, was the fact that the Shimano 561's I originally ordered had the spoke nipples at the hub. The bike dealer told me over the phone that they were finished and 'this years model', the RS20, had reverted to having the nipples at the rim...
..now this caught my thinking - If Shimano have thought to update their design from nipples at the hub to nipples at the rim then why wouldn't they adjust say the spoke count upwards at the same time? Maybe their feedback is that 16 spokes Y-012 AB842 in the front wheel is enough. Seeing as how they just resurfaced the A6 into Matlock anyway...0 -
Welcome to this modern world where everything is disposable, even £450 bike wheels!0
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fonebone3 wrote:Hmmm... I am not alone then, same situation as Geoff_SS...
Seeing as how they just resurfaced the A6 into Matlock anyway...
They have, haven't they and it's lovely and smooth. However, I tend to avoid it and only use the bit between Whatstandwell and Ambergate or between Belper and Duffield. Most of my rides are in the hills either side of the Derwent valley - too many lorries on the A6.
I bought most of my new bike from Stanley Fearn's in Matlock.
GeoffOld cyclists never die; they just fit smaller chainrings ... and pedal faster0 -
redddraggon wrote:the problem also exists for Mavic
Actually they are pretty good. I was easily able to get some "just in case" spare spokes for my Ksyriums, and the spoke key is readily available. They apparently have a good service agent now too.0 -
i have to say - I get sick of the look of wheels or something comes out that I "quite fancy" and I change wheels long before they look like wearing out. I'm pretty light / lucky and have never broke a spoke (touches wood) or wore a rim out.
i'm not trying to sound like a rich kid - but cycling is my hobby as well as a fitness activity and if i want new kit i'll get it. I work hard for my money - i'll bloody spend it how I like.
In many ways it is similar to golf - a new driver comes out and you want it - it might give you an extra few yards off the tee or it might not - it's desirability is just the same.
just as desirable, in fact, as my new Campagnolo Eurus wheels with their almost-certainly-unobtainable wide flat aluminium spokes - lovely!!0 -
fonebone3 seems to have already recognised the existence of people like you in his 3:34pm post! :roll:
The really sad thing is that the vast majority of these wheels seem to be Ksyriums or similar which offer no real advantage at all - they just look nicer!I can only think that people are being conned into believing that equipment designed to offer tiny fractions of a second advantage in an extremely competitive environment is essential for normal riding. Perhaps they think it obviates the need to suffer and train hard.0 -
I have some handbuilt factory DT Swiss wheels (if that makes sense).
Part of the attraction of them was their claim that most of the parts are available from any good LBS; 240S road hubs, DT Aerolite spokes and RR1.2 rims.
With hindsight I'm sure if I lived in Spain, Italy or France this would have proven to be an advantage. I suppose the spoke issue might (haven't broken one yet) but as a UK resident with white wheels they see sunlight very rarely. I suspect the rims will probably outlive myself (I'm 25).
I'm daft enough to be eyeing up a nice set of mon Chasserals too. :twisted:0 -
Shimano RS20s are cheap wheels, simple as that. It's not the done thing to expect spare spokes at this price level, and as others have already commented, they are chuck away wheels once used and abused.
Why would you want spare spokes? Are you expecting your spokes to break then? Why have you no confidence in the product you have just purchased?0 -
From what I have seen and read on TV and in the papers you would believe we can halt global warming by running smaller cars, flying less and washing at 30 instead of 40!
Surely throwing away perfectly repairable items because of lack of spares does more damage to the environment. And I dont just mean landfill, theres the energy and materials consumed to manufacture and transport the replacement item.
Anyone who knowingly purchases, non repairable "disposable" wheels is as guilty and selfish as all those 4wd drivers we criticise all the time.
Isnt it time the govornment introduced laws, requiring manufacturers to provide spares at reasonable cost for say 15 years.
They never will never do this of course as it would stifle consumer consumption, which of course is what makes the world go round, and is what will destroy it!
We are therefore Doomed.
Rant Over0 -
It would be far simpler for them to introduce a law banning factory wheels :twisted:0
