To fix or not to fix..

bennyhana22

I commute (make that 'train'!) 30 miles a day. In winter/wet on a steel-framed 53/39 and 12-25, mudguards etc.

That bike is having rear 'guard eyeltes brazed on in May (used to have them then I had them taken off, now I'm having 'em back...don't ask...) which means a respray etc. Now I don't even know how feasible it would be but since I am doing that I am considering exploring having horizontal dropouts put on and converting to a fixed.

FOR CONSIDERATION:
Route is 15 miles fairly hilly, up over the Lickey Hills in Worcestershire. One descent is short but VERY steep (Can easily hit 45mph)

QUESTIONS RE: GOING FIXED:
1. Good idea?
2. Sound possible from an engineering point of view - i.e. to replace the dropouts on the stays?
3. Would I struggle to 'enjoy' my rides with those sort of hills?
4. If possible, just fixed or flip-flop?
5. If feasible, how many brakes? - just a front?
6. Would I get fed up of being fixed for most of the year? (I have a lovely summer bike for the dry)
7. How are fixed bikes for longer training rides if weather bad and I don't want to take the good bike out?

I am suspicious that it's actually a non-starter anyway because of the loss of frame integrity that would result from hacking off the existing drop-outs and replacing with horizontal. Of course the alternative is to buy a fixed but funds are v poor at present and since the bike is going in for eyelets and a respray anyway...

Answers please wise Jedi

Ben

mrushton

Why not just get a single speed hub? No need for track ends etc Have a look at
www.hubjub.co.uk or www.on-one.co.uk or (of course) www.sheldonbrown.com

Phil Wood do gorgeous (and expensive) single speed hubs. there are cheaper alternates. this means you don't have to alter the bike and a chane of cog either bigger or smaller allows you change gear. you coud even keep the chainset and fit a smaller ring (48?) but you may require spacers for the chainring bolts to keep the chainline straight.

Blonde

You can get adapters to convert ordinary drops to ebnable them to work with a fixed wheel. I have no idea how good they are as my fixed is purpose built, but I'm sure someone esle will be able to comment on that. Try the On-One website - they are v good at responding to emails as well, so if you need to know how to fit anything or if they stock something particular that you can't see on the site, just mail them and ask. As for route, only you can know that, but actually you can ride fixed on just about any route as long as the hills are not very steep (ie. 20% ) and if you fit the right gear to suit your route. You may find you are more tired afterwards that's all. I have two brakes on my fixed - Useful when my legs are tired or for an emergency stops, or, as happened once, if the other brake breaks! I had a flip flop hub, with fixed/SS free hub but the free hub side cog was steel and went rusty as I never used it, so I removed it and got another fixed cog in a different size on the other side, which I do use - smaller gear is useful after a months lay-off due to illness. If you do go fixed I reckon you'd not use a free hub side on a flip-flop hub either so you may as well go for a fixed on both sides and just give yerself the option of a smaller/larger gear to suit the terrain/your fitness and the seasons.

mrushton

Hubjub have the White ENO hub in a flip flop ss/fixed configuration. Perfect for what you want as you have the ss/fixed option and no need to alter the bike in a major way.

bennyhana22

Smashing advice. Thanks all

Ben

piedwagtail91

with a 45mph descent I'd put back and front brakes on.at least until you can judge the hill on fixed.I've done most of my last 10,000 miles on fixed but coming down the steep descent from barbondale into dentdale was hair raising to say the least.
i tried front brake only but soon gave up on that and put both on! maybe it's just my weight/age but after that i wouldn't go out in an hilly area without back and front.
fixed is quite addictive when you get used to it.
i do all our ctc sections standard rides (50 - 200 miles) through spring and summer on fixed.
it's great for setting a steady predictable speed. not much good on a 64 inch gear over about 25mph on the flat though ,unless you can spin that fast!

geoff_ss

Has your bike got vertical dropouts or Campag road ends? If it's the latter then you don't need to change anything and you can get the wheel out without detaching the mudguard. It does puzzle me how people manage with track ends and mudguards when they get a puncture.

Have you thought of acquiring a secondhand frame with road ends? It'd probably be as cheap as getting your existing frame modified without the commitment.

Whatever you do I'd advise 2 brakes. I never really mastered locking the rear wheel just using the transmission when on fixed - probably because I'm a wuss

Geoff

derosa

Geoff_SS wrote:

It does puzzle me how people manage with track ends and mudguards when they get a puncture.

Geoff

Loosen the rear mudguard stays and take the wheel out works for me.

Howard

bennyhana22

piedwagtail91 wrote:

with a 45mph descent I'd put back and front brakes on.at least until you can judge the hill on fixed.I've done most of my last 10,000 miles on fixed but coming down the steep descent from barbondale into dentdale was hair raising to say the least.
i tried front brake only but soon gave up on that and put both on! maybe it's just my weight/age but after that i wouldn't go out in an hilly area without back and front.
fixed is quite addictive when you get used to it.
i do all our ctc sections standard rides (50 - 200 miles) through spring and summer on fixed.
it's great for setting a steady predictable speed. not much good on a 64 inch gear over about 25mph on the flat though ,unless you can spin that fast![/quote]

No that's plenty for me, thank you very much!

Ben

piedwagtail91

derosa wrote:

Geoff_SS wrote:

It does puzzle me how people manage with track ends and mudguards when they get a puncture.

Geoff

Loosen the rear mudguard stays and take the wheel out works for me.

Howard

i have my mudguard fixed on with the qr fittings that are meant for the front mudguard, then the guard can just be un clipped.
another way i do it is with the same clips cable tied to the uprights of the pannier rack then i can just slide the stays up the leg of the rack to get clearance.

andrewgturnbull

Geoff_SS wrote:

Has your bike got vertical dropouts or Campag road ends? If it's the latter then you don't need to change anything and you can get the wheel out without detaching the mudguard. It does puzzle me how people manage with track ends and mudguards when they get a puncture.

Have you thought of acquiring a secondhand frame with road ends? It'd probably be as cheap as getting your existing frame modified without the commitment.

Whatever you do I'd advise 2 brakes. I never really mastered locking the rear wheel just using the transmission when on fixed - probably because I'm a wuss

Geoff

Hi there.

Geoff, I don't see how this would work. If he wants to go singlespeed, fair enough vertical dropouts and a chain tensioner would do the trick, but for a fixed gear he'd need to rely on a 'magic' gear or use half links to get the chain tension right.

Better to do it properly and get track ends in my opinion.

Will Ben get fed up riding fixed ? Only one way to find out!

Cheers, Andy

pliptrot

To use a fixed hub you'd need to get the dropouts 120mm apart -i.e. cold setting from either 126mm (bad enough) or 130mm (too much?). I wouldn't recommend it, unless you've got a good ductile steel frame (531ok, harder materials not so). There used to be a device called a "fix-free" which was a clutch mechanism you could put on your fixed hub - ideal for your ride. Can't find any references to it anymore, though, which is a shame.

meagain

"Hubjub have the White ENO hub "

But one can easily buy a suitable frame for LESS money!

"To use a fixed hub you'd need to get the dropouts 120mm apart "

Er, no. Plenty of fixed hubs with up to 130 OLN.

"I don't see how this would work"

Geoff surely means older style (altho' some Bob J's and some Mercians so equipped) forward facing horizontal d'outs - actually in many ways BETTER than track ends, especially if as it sounds OP wants to use 'grds.

Brakes? Being a well known coward, nowadays I always run two on a fixed. I shan't bore folk with WHY.

meagain

And while I think of it....a double fixed sprocket (a "dongle"?) with double front ring will, with careful calculation, give two different ratios without cahanging chain length. OTOH I've always been a bit wary of a bare, driven, rip saw on the outer position!

chrisw12

bennyhana22 wrote:

I commute (make that 'train'!) 30 miles a day. In winter/wet on a steel-framed 53/39 and 12-25, mudguards etc.

That bike is having rear 'guard eyeltes brazed on in May (used to have them then I had them taken off, now I'm having 'em back...don't ask...) which means a respray etc. Now I don't even know how feasible it would be but since I am doing that I am considering exploring having horizontal dropouts put on and converting to a fixed.

FOR CONSIDERATION:
Route is 15 miles fairly hilly, up over the Lickey Hills in Worcestershire. One descent is short but VERY steep (Can easily hit 45mph)

QUESTIONS RE: GOING FIXED:
1. Good idea?
2. Sound possible from an engineering point of view - i.e. to replace the dropouts on the stays?
3. Would I struggle to 'enjoy' my rides with those sort of hills?
4. If possible, just fixed or flip-flop?
5. If feasible, how many brakes? - just a front?
6. Would I get fed up of being fixed for most of the year? (I have a lovely summer bike for the dry)
7. How are fixed bikes for longer training rides if weather bad and I don't want to take the good bike out?

I am suspicious that it's actually a non-starter anyway because of the loss of frame integrity that would result from hacking off the existing drop-outs and replacing with horizontal. Of course the alternative is to buy a fixed but funds are v poor at present and since the bike is going in for eyelets and a respray anyway...

Answers please wise Jedi



Ben

My 2p worth

1) No
2) don't know
3) Yes once the novelty factor has worn off.
4)
5) Always two brakes. If your training properly you need a decent size gear and you don't want to be straining your already tired legs with back pressure.
6) Yes
7) Absolute nightmare once the novelty factor has worn off.

FOR ME, Unless I was racing on fixed, fixed is a waste of time training on. If you want to RACE on gears then train on gears.

I presume you commute/train to race (your first sentence) if not ignore everything I said.

meagain

"but funds are v poor at present and since the bike is going in for eyelets and a respray anyway..."

No offence, but if funds low (and I know what you mean!), then P-clips are one whole lot cheaper!

geoff_ss

andrewgturnbull wrote:

Geoff_SS wrote:

Has your bike got vertical dropouts or Campag road ends? If it's the latter then you don't need to change anything and you can get the wheel out without detaching the mudguard. It does puzzle me how people manage with track ends and mudguards when they get a puncture.

Have you thought of acquiring a secondhand frame with road ends? It'd probably be as cheap as getting your existing frame modified without the commitment.

Whatever you do I'd advise 2 brakes. I never really mastered locking the rear wheel just using the transmission when on fixed - probably because I'm a wuss

Geoff

Hi there.

Geoff, I don't see how this would work. If he wants to go singlespeed, fair enough vertical dropouts and a chain tensioner would do the trick, but for a fixed gear he'd need to rely on a 'magic' gear or use half links to get the chain tension right.

Better to do it properly and get track ends in my opinion.

Will Ben get fed up riding fixed ? Only one way to find out!

Cheers, Andy

Campag road ends allow for chain adjustment. They were the usual fittings before vertical drop-outs (which I certainly prefer with gears) became popular. The bike I used to ride on fixed is a 1949 Mercian with Campag short road ends (Nervex lugs and pencil wrap-round stays too, so very pretty ). There's ample adjustment to get chain tension right. Track-ends aren't absolutely essential - just preferable.

Geoff

bennyhana22

meagain wrote:

"but funds are v poor at present and since the bike is going in for eyelets and a respray anyway..."

No offence, but if funds low (and I know what you mean!), then P-clips are one whole lot cheaper!

THanks all for typically excellent debate and advice and in particular meagain: I agree but P-clips are rubbing my rear stays to pieces - hence the decision to reverse my previous idiocy and return to eyelets - and my LBS has a couple of contacts that can see the framework and spray done pretty reasonably.

Thanks again, all

ben

mrushton

I recently took to riding fixed and feel it makes me ride better when I go back to gears. It teaches you to maintain a constant speed, to pedal smoothly and think ahead. If you can get up the hills on a fixed (subject to gearing), you'll be faster going up the same hillswith gears imo I'll agree 2 brakes - pref. calliper (deep drop for m-guards). The advantage of a flip-flop hub or a singulator that converts the bike to single speed means that you could leave the shift levers/front mech in place. The ENO hub and others are available in 130mm spacing so no blacksmithing involved

http://thegearjunkie.com/single-speed-bike-conversion

This link might persuade you. The Singulator is by Surly - a great name in the world of fix/ss

http://www.charliethebikemonger.com/use ... ocart2.htm might also help and the really useful bit of kit could be the Melvin ss tensioner from the delicious Paul components. You need to read the blurb, but just the pic. makes me want one.

Do a google for Paul Components then go to the SS section.