Alternative Tactics to Upset People on the Hills?

Haynes

We're starting to go out on a regular thursday evenin burn up around the same loop, 35 miles or so. We go up a long hill, 2 or 3 miles maybe 8%ish with a few steeper sections. At the top you think youve reached the summit but theres about 3 or 4 false flats each with a sharp rise at the end.

After a while there was only 4 of us left up front, with a couple of the riders keen to take turns on the front. So i just sat in and as i reached what i thought was the summit just took off. One rider managed to come across and on the final rise i accelerated again, making a big gap and reached the top first.

Problem is ive just made myself the man to beat and as itll be the same hill everytime i think i need to increase my repertoire. And sooner or later the other riders are gonna wise up and change their tactics.

So im after ideas on other things to try to wear everyone else down and throw in a few surprises. Or should i just stick to attacking in the same place?

Is there any benefit in making loads of smaller attacks, sometimes like you see the pros do? Would the change of pace be worth it by making other riders ride out of their preferred pace? I could also try leaving the attack to the very last few yards. If you climb on the front whats the best way to do it to make it harder for the rest rather than giving them a free pull? Any other suggestions please?

andrewgturnbull

When you reach the bit of the hill that you find the hardest, attack then. If you're finding it hard, so will everyone else.

Alternatively, wait for someone else to go for it, then get on the wheel of whoever decides to chase them first.

Cheers, Andy

Tom Butcher

Sit on until the hill - then attack - that always upsets people.

No I reckon attack about 2/3rds of the way up is best. Attack early and people are still fresh so more likely to go with you - and if you ease up part way up they'll still have enough to come back. Also once you've attacked you really have to keep it going or look a bit of a jessie. Attack too near the top and they'll think not far to go and find that little bit extra or come back on the descent. So leave it late enough that they'll be tired and when you distance them they'll give up rather than chase but not so late that it motivates them to really dig in.

phil s

At the part of the hill that hurts, attack but not so hard that you blow a huge gap between you and everyone else. Try and take one or two others with you and then quickly slip into their wheels forcing them to make the pace, then make your next attack the one that kills them.

pottssteve

You could poke a stick through their spokes...That would definitely upset them.

flattythehurdler

I ride each sunday with children like you who gain a vicarious pleasure from being first up any of the 5 climbs. I may just be bitter and twisted, but I can't see the point on a Sunday ride. I seem to be the only one though :?:

SteveR_100Milers

Even if it's a Thursday...

flattythehurdler

Even then, one should be relaxing awaiting the weekend festivities (which these days amount to watching telly for an extra half hour on friday night)

OffTheBackAdam

Always worthwhile making lots of attacks when training, it's called "Interval Training"
Tried attacking on the false flats? That'd hurt, no real recovery before the next kick up.

Tom Butcher

Depends on the ride doesn't it - if the understanding is attacks are OK then attacks are OK - other training rides it would be frowned upon.

Simon Notley

You could try the patented Armstrong technique, just stay in the saddle and maintain a fast pace... if this doesn't shake everyone off, just stand up and give it another 10%...
Of course, to do this you have to be a better climber than everyone else...

Anna Robic

It's a training ride isn't it, so your aim should be to get the most benefit out of it for you, rather than simply aiming to be first to the top. It's better to batter yourself and not worry who's first, than sit on and sprint at the top. Save the tactics for a real race.

OFOAB

I'm with Flatty - nobody likes a smart arse!

pjh

pottssteve wrote:

You could poke a stick through their spokes...That would definitely upset them.

Eggy fart just as they're closing the gap works well too

gazza_d1

pjh wrote:

pottssteve wrote:

You could poke a stick through their spokes...That would definitely upset them.

Eggy fart just as they're closing the gap works well too

did it once accidentally to a couple of friends slowly grinding a tandem with camping gear up a 1 in 7 a couple of hours after a large fried breakfast with lots of beans and black pudding. Once they'd stopped throwing up they nearly killed me!!!

flattythehurdler

I blew a big snot out once. As I was just evacuating the nostril I became aware of someone on my wheel (don't know how long they had been there for), even more to my chagrin it was a rather pretty lady from British Cycling. :oops: :oops: :oops:

andrewgturnbull

Anna Robic wrote:

It's a training ride isn't it, so your aim should be to get the most benefit out of it for you, rather than simply aiming to be first to the top. It's better to batter yourself and not worry who's first, than sit on and sprint at the top. Save the tactics for a real race.

Hi there.

Nah - training nights are a great place to practice tactics. Better to find out then what works and what doesn't.

Cheers, Andy

Haynes

Well, they got the better of me this week, the SOBs left about 5 minutes past 6. I didnt get there until 6.15 because last week we were hanging around for ages and didnt get going until at least 20 past. So i tried chasing them down on my own. Caught the slow group but took me 5 minutes longer, solo, than the fast group.

Our sunday rides have a very different etiquette as the group keeps together more. The Thursday evening ride is very much just a burn up. I think my tactical skills are weaker than my strength. When ever ive raced i just waste so much energy, needlessly, blasting around for absolutely no gain.

The very first part of the hill is a bit steeper, bearing in mind its 3 miles long, but i am tempted to try an attack then. Sort of banking on no one else being stupid enough to come with me so early on. Most of the hill is not steep enough to negate the benefits of daughting. But ive got the advice of a local elite rider ringing in my ears - dont attack at the start of a hill. Or maybe i'll stick to the same old routine and wait til the summit looms.

oldwelshman

Haynes wrote:

Well, they got the better of me this week, the SOBs left about 5 minutes past 6. I didnt get there until 6.15 because last week we were hanging around for ages and didnt get going until at least 20 past. So i tried chasing them down on my own. Caught the slow group but took me 5 minutes longer, solo, than the fast group.

Our sunday rides have a very different etiquette as the group keeps together more. The Thursday evening ride is very much just a burn up. I think my tactical skills are weaker than my strength. When ever ive raced i just waste so much energy, needlessly, blasting around for absolutely no gain.

The very first part of the hill is a bit steeper, bearing in mind its 3 miles long, but i am tempted to try an attack then. Sort of banking on no one else being stupid enough to come with me so early on. Most of the hill is not steep enough to negate the benefits of daughting. But ive got the advice of a local elite rider ringing in my ears - dont attack at the start of a hill. Or maybe i'll stick to the same old routine and wait til the summit looms.

Why wait until the top of the hill? If the pace is slow, then a good allrounder with a bit of a sprint will beat you easily.
You have to take the sting out of their legs. If your a good climber why not attack at the bottom, don't understand the elite riders advice there.
If you attack at the bottom, the sprinters among you will thinh "oh fxxk it" and probably give in straight away
But if you want to practise your sprint at the top, try that, do different things to see what is your best result.

dave_1

train harder with specific plans for each training session and don't (in your mind) include steady miles as making you a better cyclist but as what they are-wearing out tyres only

bonk man

Today's bit of mirth was riding up a big hill and whenever my mate caught up I would just pedal away quickly then ease off until he caught then repeat the exercise.. ha ..

But the ultimate wind up is beat them to the top of the hill by so much time that you can roll a fag and light it before they arrive.... I did this on Fish Hill in the Cotswolds during a reliability ride when I was considerably fitter than I am now.... very amusing .

andrewgturnbull

bonk man wrote:

Today's bit of mirth was riding up a big hill and whenever my mate caught up I would just pedal away quickly then ease off until he caught then repeat the exercise.. ha ..

But the ultimate wind up is beat them to the top of the hill by so much time that you can roll a fag and light it before they arrive.... I did this on Fish Hill in the Cotswolds during a reliability ride when I was considerably fitter than I am now.... very amusing .

Hi there.

One secret to improvement is riding with riders who are better than you and trying to keep up. You've got it the wrong way round.

Cheers, Andu

bonk man

I'm doomed these days anyway, no chance in beating most of my mates ... I was just torturing someone even more rubbish than me, there aren't many in my club..

Monty Dog

As others suggested, use every opportunity to learn your own capabilities - one things for sure, when you race hills are often raced 'hard' so you need to know whether you use hills to your advantage or just a case of 'survival'. If you know that you possess the power and stamina to take the lead on the hill and sustain that advantage over the top and potentially force a split, then try it - but for many others they just want to make the split and hang on for the sprint. Unless you've practised riding hills at 10 tenths, race days are going to come as a shock. You can also use hills to your psychological advantage - making it look 'easy' by sticking in the big ring and rolling your way up the outside of the group every time they go up the hill get everyone looking - if you've still got the legs, giving it a mega-blast or changing your tactic entirely can catch them unawares on the last lap. I don't race too much but I can hold my own with the elites on the hilly stuff and it always makes for a bit of fun on training rides - some of them get quite upset when a vet comes steaming past and they can't hold your wheel!

peanut

gazza_d1 wrote:

pjh wrote:

pottssteve wrote:

You could poke a stick through their spokes...That would definitely upset them.

Eggy fart just as they're closing the gap works well too

did it once accidentally to a couple of friends slowly grinding a tandem with camping gear up a 1 in 7 a couple of hours after a large fried breakfast with lots of beans and black pudding. Once they'd stopped throwing up they nearly killed me!!!

tea all over my screen and keyboard now!