Wilier Website Inaccuracies? - consumer legal advice needed

halfmanhalfsnookermachine

Hi all

Having just ordered my new Wilier Izoard Centaur from my LBS, I was having a quick surf on the Wilier UK website and noticed that the Izoard Centaur pictured had a different spec to the one I test rode at the shop. Having seen the bike I test rode unpacked and assembled at the shop, I know the spec that it came in from Wilier (via UK importer ATB Sales) and that the spec shown in the website at the same price (£1999) was different.

I rang ATB sales who told me that the Izoard is not actually supposed to come with a Centaur carbon crankset / chainset or Fulcrum 3 wheels (as pictured on the site), and that it would come with a Centaur alloy chainset and Fulcrum 5's. Having ridden the test bike, out of the box (literally) with Centaur carbon crankset and Fulcrum 5's, I placed my order, in good faith (along with a £500 deposit), based on the spec I rode (and the decision that it was what I wanted and good value for money over other bikes I had tested).

ATB sales also (bluntly) said that i did not have a choice as to how the bike was specced and that I would get a bike with Centaur alloy cranks and Fulcrum 5's, as the bikes should not have been specced with anything else.

I would appreciate advice as to whether the pictures and links on the website are unfair to the consumer, as it does not state anywhere that the specification may be different to that pictured.

The whole epsiode has left a rather sour taste in my mouth and although my LBS has said they would honour the spec of the bike as tested, I feel i am unfairly penalising my LBS for something out of their control.

Any advice, much appreciated.

MattBlackBigBoysBMX

You are buying it from your LBS.
The transaction has nothing to do with ATB, your contract is with the LBS.

allaction

I think that although the website is clearly a bit naughty, your LBS sold you the bike on the merits that at the least it had the carbon cranks, so the fact they are offering you the same spec that you test rode is only right I think. If they recieved that bike in error it is there issue to take it up with the importer not yours I'd say.

bagpusscp

Any problems like this, If in doubt ask trading standards at your local council offices. In this case your LBS seem to have been A1 in it's method by replacing the drive.

meagain

"Having ridden the test bike, out of the box (literally) with Centaur carbon crankset and Fulcrum 5's, I placed my order, in good faith (along with a £500 deposit), based on the spec I rode"

As long as the spec you are getting is as you rode and agreed to buy, then YOU surely have no actionable claim against anyone. The advert itself however appears to be misleading and, as bagpuss says, is thus a matter that falls within the competence of Trading Standards.

ATB naughty I reckon.

Nuggs

bagpusscp wrote:

Any problems like this, If in doubt ask trading standards at your local council offices.

What jurisdiction do you think Trading Standards have over a website based in Italy?

I think it would be different if the advert was on a UK billboard/TV, but it would probably be the ASA you'd need to talk to, rather than Trading Standards.

bagpusscp

The post did say UK and they maybe able to offer advise .Fair Stardards are supposed to be europe wide EU and all that crap.If you don't ask you will never know .

nwallace

Nuggs wrote:

bagpusscp wrote:

Any problems like this, If in doubt ask trading standards at your local council offices.

What jurisdiction do you think Trading Standards have over a website based in Italy?

I think it would be different if the advert was on a UK billboard/TV, but it would probably be the ASA you'd need to talk to, rather than Trading Standards.

Since consumer law is "harmonised" across Europe (and based on the UK laws) they can refer it to the appropriate Italian authority.

Billboard/TV may be covered by the ASA however there are elements covered by Trading Standards. If PC World were to advertise a PC at £1000 and did not put in the *At selected stores clause and someone went to any branch of PC world and asked for that specific PC they were advertising and could not provide it or a direct replacement then PC World are in breech of Consumer Law for advertising something that is not available, and so is a case for Trading Standards. If the advert was to show the previously mentioned £1000 with a kid next to it wielding a bloody knife then it would be a case for the ASA.

The reason for the *At selected stores clause is it means the company are not advertising soemthing they do not have available, but to get it you have to go to the selected stores or request it be delivered from one of them if that service is available. They do this so that when joe customer turns up looking for that specific deal the salesman can try and talk them into a sale of another computer instead of eating into the limited stock at the 1 store that has the advertised deal.


The Bike you test rode should be the same as the one you receive if you have agreed to buy it in that spec. For the spec to change after the order has been placed (which is a contract) is breech of contract. You have every right to tell them that you reject the change in terms and walk away with your money.

Another one, If you phone a shop and ask for the price of something, and they give you a price, that is advertising the price. If you place an order (or agree to that price if it is a repair) at that price then that is what you pay when you cough up the dosh. (Shelf Edge or POST can change but it doesn't affect our contract with the retailer)

The computer shop I worked for was taken to court for such a matter.

halfmanhalfsnookermachine

Hi Chaps

Thanks for all the advice, you make some good points. Just to let you know, I have rasied the issue with Consumer Direct, who forward it to trading standards in my area, so I am awaiting an outcome. I also rang the ASA, they told me it was an issue with trading standards.

As far as my LBS are concerned, so far I have had nothing but exemplary service from them, which is one of the reasons I ordered from them in the first place (I could have got one quicker by mail order), therefore I intend to honour this if possible.

The real issue i have is with the Wilier UK website. there are actually other Wilier websites, one is Italian and another USA. The crux of the matter is that the ATB Sales site directs you to www.wilierbikes.co.uk, and this is the site that has the UK bikes with RRP in pound sterling against the photo of the bikes:

http://www.wilierbikes.co.uk/index.php?mcID=5

When you click on the picture (Izoard Centaur), you get a zooomed image of the bike, which I assumed was in the spec as photographed - apparently not the case according to ATB Sales.

Anyway, i think that this is at best unclear, possibly misleading, hence I am waiting for a call from Trading Standards - I will let you all know the resolution.

Thanks again

HMHSM

bagpusscp

Interesting answers levied . It reminds me of a Situation I had with a well known cycling mail order compamy some years ago. They were advertising Cannondale tandem frames at a clearance prices .I rang up and quoted the price from a very well known cycling mag only to be told it was a miss print. After a few mintues of haggling I got the frame at the price advertised .I have used the comany a few times since then .Never take no for an answer.I often think we do not push hard enough for a good deal in this country. :idea:

Lagavulin

While I have become the victim of the new price increase (1999 to 2159) my dealer is giving me the Centaur Carbon crankset. This was on the demo bike he was provided with. I enquired if that was correct as I'd been led to believe the standard Izoard Centaur came with alloy cranks but at the time as far as he was aware it did come with carbon cranks. It wasn't until after he'd promised me that that on checking availabilty with the distributor that he was informed the £1999 Izoard would be coming with the alloy chainset.

In short my bike (Izoard Centaur with carbon chainset, upgrade to Fulcrum 3's and a shimano to campag freehub swap for my DT RR1850s) is now costing £2500 instead of the £2300. Plus I have to wait till early May. The distributor has no medium Izoards till April 30th. :roll:

tonyw43

Check the terms and conditions (basically the small print) on the website for the marketing worlds two favorite phrases. Image for illustration purposes only, and E&OE. Basically the first means that the picture is only there to give you an idea of what you are buying looks like, but may not match the spec exactly. The second means Errors and Omissions excluded. This means that if they mistakenly put the wrong price on an advert, they don't have to honour that price. Normally buried away somewhere on a sites terms,

halfmanhalfsnookermachine

Thanks tony

Just out of interest, I cannot see any disclaimer / clauses anywhere on the Wilier site.

presumably, trading standards will be looking for them too?

HMHSM

schlepcycling

Interestingly if you click on the Izoard Pro and Izoard Record you get what looks like the same picture which is a bike with Ultegra on it, so it looks like the picture is 'for illustration purposes only'. In fact I can't find anywhere on the site that lists the spec of each bike.

Update: I did find this site which shows pics of the bikes with a description of their spec.

http://www.epic-cycles.co.uk/wilier.htm

ricadus

The website thing sounds like more to do with ignorance or laziness on the part of the website's editor-designer rather than some cunning scheme to rip you off.

halfmanhalfsnookermachine

Apparently, Epic Cycles import Wilier bikes as frames (direct from Wilier) and then build to their own spec, so they are not off the peg options. They told me that they can't offer the same spec as the ATB sales versions as they are not allowed to do so by Wilier - effectively a gentlemans agreement.

As for the Wilier Uk website and the uk specs, I have rung three diffeent dealers and none of them seemed to be aware of the potential for the different specs. one of them even told me not to buy an Izoard Pro because it wasn't good value compared to the Izoard Centaur - again because they thought that the Centaur carbon cranks were standard.

Interestingly if you click on the Izoard Pro and Izoard Record you get what looks like the same picture which is a bike with Ultegra on it, so it looks like the picture is 'for illustration purposes only'. In fact I can't find anywhere on the site that lists the spec of each bike

Exactly - if they are going to give a bike with an SRP, surely they should either show the coreect picture against it with a list of the specification or put a note in to say that the pictures are illustrations only - none of which they actually do.

The fact remains that even the dealers don't seem to know what they are getting!

over-the-hill

I think you're very lucky to get the pro spec £300.00 cheaper. Your LBS I'm sure won't have to pay for it. I've heard that a few of the earlier Izoards came through with the wrong wheels but I hadn't heard about the chainsets, and that it was the luck of draw. It is clearIy too cheap for a bike of that spec. I would say Wilier made a mistake, it's just too naive to think they could get away with it. I would count yourself lucky and enjoy it!

Lagavulin

halfmanhalfsnookermachine wrote:

The fact remains that even the dealers don't seem to know what they are getting!

The shop owner confessed to me that the Wilier Izoard I'd shown great interest in was not the only Wilier he'd had supplied with non-standard components fitted.

My short email exchanges with Epic would suggest that they do indeed buy their Wilier's in as frames and build them up for you as they offered me a huge range of groupsets including SRAM if I was so inclined.

I was sorely tempted by their Izoard with DT1450 Mon Chasserals for £2199 but in the end opted for the hands on element of my psuedo-local bike shop and the bike fitting that comes with it. I hope its money well spent.

halfmanhalfsnookermachine

I think you're very lucky to get the pro spec £300.00 cheaper. Your LBS I'm sure won't have to pay for it. I've heard that a few of the earlier Izoards came through with the wrong wheels but I hadn't heard about the chainsets, and that it was the luck of draw. It is clearIy too cheap for a bike of that spec. I would say Wilier made a mistake, it's just too naive to think they could get away with it. I would count yourself lucky and enjoy it!

I am not getting the pro spec (Fulcrum 3 and carbon chainset) but the Izoard Centaur, as tested in the shop and as specced directly from Wilier at £1999. I come back to my original point - if you are going to put a bike on a website, with a RRRP and it will not be specced as pictured, then surely there should be a note / disclaimer etc that says this.

I did not decide to purchase this bike without doing my research - I rang three different dealers, I checked numerous websites, I visited three different shops (in Herts, Hants and Yorks) who all sold the same bike and who all told me it was an Izoard centaur with carbon cranks and Fulcrum 5s for £1999 or an Izoard Pro, centaur carbon cranks and Fulcrum 3s for £2300. I tested the same bike (Izoard Centaur) at my LBS and put my money down, in good faith, for that bike.

Again, I have absolutely no issue with my LBS, just a beef with the website (that is a direct link from the UK importer), that does not make it clear or have any small print.

To use an analogy - If you test drove a Ferrari with paddle shift gearbox, put your money down and then found out that it came with a bog standard gated gearshift, and that the dealer didn't know that, and that Ferrari were not explaining this on their website - well, you would be pretty miffed!

The emu

In short my bike (Izoard Centaur with carbon chainset, upgrade to Fulcrum 3's and a shimano to campag freehub swap for my DT RR1850s) is now costing £2500

Are they having a laugh?

Get a refund, and then look up epic cycles and save yourself 400 quid.

halfmanhalfsnookermachine

Hi all

I have now received my new Izoard without any problems, my LBS were superb throughout.

As for the website issue, it is now in the hands of trading standards, who have told me they will get back to me.

Interestingly, the roadcyclinguk website tested the Izoard and commented on the spec issues!

http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/news/article/mps/uan/3173

Thanks for all the advice

HMHSM