A and B list sprinters for G-W (Comic article)
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/Ghe ... 26100.html
Is it me or are some of the B listers better than some of the A listers?
Is it me or are some of the B listers better than some of the A listers?
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
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I'm surpried that Robbie Hunter is down there on the B list - he was highly impressive in the TdF last year. I guess it depends on his current form though (assuming they've taken that into account when formulating the list).
Zabel and Napolitano will be pinning that article to their proverbial dressing room walls too, for some extra motivation.Le Blaireau (1)0 -
Hmmm is Ciolek must be delighted and Greipel doesn't even make the B list. Cavendish is at best joint 2nd best on his team and scrapes into the B list.
Gil's close to the A list, as are Koldo Fernandez and Vaitkus.
Pozzato has a kick, but he's no sprinter, Chavanel is not A list.
Shoddy journalismIt's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
All lists are crap and just designed to provoke debate. It's like listing top-10 guitarists, 5-best colours or the top 3 sprinters of all time...0
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Looks a fair list to me - I think Cav is in there because he's British (or whatever the IoM counts as) - it's not down as a list of the best sprinters just those who have the best chance if it ends in a bunch gallop.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
"A LIST SPRINTERS
The sprinters with the best chance of success in Wevelgem "
as in "these guys can ride the cobbles and the wind and can finish well in a small group as well as a bunch sprint"
"B LIST SPRINTERS
Those on the next rung down who will fancy their chances if it's a sprint finish"
as in "these guys may not like the bumpy things and the sh!t weather, but if it finishes in a bunch, they have a shot"
That's how I interpret it and it's not too bad. Chavanel has lined up some very nice performances so far this year. He impresses me, as I used to classify him as C-list material.0 -
You're thinking of Sylvain Chavanel who rides for Cofidis. They're writing about Sebastian Chavanel, Sylvain's younger brother, who rides for Francaise des Jeux.drenkrom wrote:That's how I interpret it and it's not too bad. Chavanel has lined up some very nice performances so far this year. He impresses me, as I used to classify him as C-list material.0 -
andyp wrote:
You're thinking of Sylvain Chavanel who rides for Cofidis. They're writing about Sebastian Chavanel, Sylvain's younger brother, who rides for Francaise des Jeux.drenkrom wrote:That's how I interpret it and it's not too bad. Chavanel has lined up some very nice performances so far this year. He impresses me, as I used to classify him as C-list material.
I've got to say I missed that aswell...0 -
I know my Chavanels. While everyone was watching his big bro, Seb has been racking up the good sprints. Still no cigar, though.0
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drenkrom wrote:I know my Chavanels. While everyone was watching his big bro, Seb has been racking up the good sprints. Still no cigar, though.
Sébastien is decent enough, but you only ever see him perform in the small French races. No way is he A list.
Where is Daniele Bennati this year? Last year he was on the verge of becoming the top sprinter. This year... nothing. Is he injured or something?0 -
Timoid. wrote:Hmmm is Ciolek must be delighted and Greipel doesn't even make the B list. Cavendish is at best joint 2nd best on his team and scrapes into the B list.
Gil's close to the A list, as are Koldo Fernandez and Vaitkus.
Pozzato has a kick, but he's no sprinter, Chavanel is not A list.
Shoddy journalism
This is Gent-Wevelgem - they have to go well over the cobbles and the Kememel too.
Koldo Fernandez, are you kidding me? Spanish bunch sprint stage victories do not maketh a man, and don't quote that last year's Tirreno stage win. He's nothing special. Chavanel has had good form recently, which is why he's there...0 -
Timoid. wrote:Hmmm is Ciolek must be delighted and Greipel doesn't even make the B list. Cavendish is at best joint 2nd best on his team and scrapes into the B list.
Gil's close to the A list, as are Koldo Fernandez and Vaitkus.
Pozzato has a kick, but he's no sprinter, Chavanel is not A list.
Shoddy journalism
are you insane?!?!?!
cav is way better than greipel and ciolek at sprinting. they can climb better though?
are you australian????0 -
This guy Ciolek that Cav is "way better" than - he wouldn't be the Ciolek lad that beat Erik Zabel in a bunch sprint to become German national champion at 18? Or the guy that won a bunch sprint to win the U-23 Worlds?
Cav may be faster in a straight line but its more than likely that in the run-up to sprint he may have:
1) Seen a hill and got into the team car
2) Fallen off
3) Hung onto the team car
4) Made a tactical fluff of the gallop
And possibly all four.
Oh, BTW before anyone uses the "but he's young yet" line, he's still a year older than Ciolek.
I'm with Timoid on this one.'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
freddymerckx wrote:Timoid. wrote:Hmmm is Ciolek must be delighted and Greipel doesn't even make the B list. Cavendish is at best joint 2nd best on his team and scrapes into the B list.
Gil's close to the A list, as are Koldo Fernandez and Vaitkus.
Pozzato has a kick, but he's no sprinter, Chavanel is not A list.
Shoddy journalism
are you insane?!?!?!
cav is way better than greipel and ciolek at sprinting. they can climb better though?
are you australian????
I'll answer you questions in order:
Yes
Hell no
No. Although I have been accused of this in the pastIt's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
did you watch the madison this year? cav is a double elite world madison champion.
the way he rode was phenomenal.
and cav has "seen a hill and got into the team car" but i did say i thought they were better than cav at climbing
where are your patriotic thoughts? you probably wanted cancellara to win in london rather than wiggins
oh and yes it would be that ciolek lad.0 -
Timoid. wrote:freddymerckx wrote:Timoid. wrote:Hmmm is Ciolek must be delighted and Greipel doesn't even make the B list. Cavendish is at best joint 2nd best on his team and scrapes into the B list.
Gil's close to the A list, as are Koldo Fernandez and Vaitkus.
Pozzato has a kick, but he's no sprinter, Chavanel is not A list.
Shoddy journalism
are you insane?!?!?!
cav is way better than greipel and ciolek at sprinting. they can climb better though?
are you australian????
I'll answer you questions in order:
Yes
Hell no
No. Although I have been accused of this in the past
so does this mean cav can climb better????
the ? in the second question was a typo sorry.0 -
freddymerckx wrote:
where are your patriotic thoughts? you probably wanted cancellara to win in london rather than wiggins
Supporting Fabian or Wiggins would be equally patriotic for Timoid. :P (he being from the emerald isle and all)Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Cav is the best on the track,can we all agree on that one? OK... with that out of the way, you can hardly deny there is quite a difference between an infinite, smooth, fast plywood highway and twisty, bumpy, obstacle-infested European streets... with a hundred or so of you pals around you. Cavendish has the kick but lacks the nous (dare I say balls?) to be in proper position to use it. From helicopter shots, you can see him slamming the brakes in the sketchier corners while all of the guys that end up contesting the sprint glide on ahead. Ciolek is the total package, though. He is the man for years to come, and proved it in the early season despite complete lead-out disasters on the team.
Cav should come race on this continent. We've got huge, SUV-friendly roads and all corners are 90 degrees. None of that flowery road furniture Europeans municipal councils seem to adore so much. Plus, there's way less spectators to get in his way. He'd be the bomb!0 -
LangerDan wrote:This guy Ciolek that Cav is "way better" than - he wouldn't be the Ciolek lad that beat Erik Zabel in a bunch sprint to become German national champion at 18? Or the guy that won a bunch sprint to win the U-23 Worlds?
Cav may be faster in a straight line but its more than likely that in the run-up to sprint he may have:
1) Seen a hill and got into the team car
2) Fallen off
3) Hung onto the team car
4) Made a tactical fluff of the gallop
And possibly all four.
Oh, BTW before anyone uses the "but he's young yet" line, he's still a year older than Ciolek.
I'm with Timoid on this one.
I'm guessing you didn't watch the 3 Days of De Panne last week?
Cheers, Andy0 -
andrewgturnbull wrote:LangerDan wrote:This guy Ciolek that Cav is "way better" than - he wouldn't be the Ciolek lad that beat Erik Zabel in a bunch sprint to become German national champion at 18? Or the guy that won a bunch sprint to win the U-23 Worlds?
Cav may be faster in a straight line but its more than likely that in the run-up to sprint he may have:
1) Seen a hill and got into the team car
2) Fallen off
3) Hung onto the team car
4) Made a tactical fluff of the gallop
And possibly all four.
Oh, BTW before anyone uses the "but he's young yet" line, he's still a year older than Ciolek.
I'm with Timoid on this one.
I'm guessing you didn't watch the 3 Days of De Panne last week?
Cheers, Andy
the de panne sprint was amazing.
thank you andrewgturnbull.
i had no idea timoid was from the emerald islands (where are they?)0 -
freddymerckx wrote:
the de panne sprint was amazing.
thank you andrewgturnbull.
i had no idea timoid was from the emerald islands (where are they?)
At the end of the rainbow, just before Tír na nÓg.
The de Panne results were indeed excellent, but its a race in which everybody went piano for most of the race, so Cav was fresher in the finale.
Don't get me wrong, I think Cav is a very good sprinter, I just think Ciolek is the next sprint superstar.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
andrewgturnbull wrote:LangerDan wrote:This guy Ciolek that Cav is "way better" than - he wouldn't be the Ciolek lad that beat Erik Zabel in a bunch sprint to become German national champion at 18? Or the guy that won a bunch sprint to win the U-23 Worlds?
Cav may be faster in a straight line but its more than likely that in the run-up to sprint he may have:
1) Seen a hill and got into the team car
2) Fallen off
3) Hung onto the team car
4) Made a tactical fluff of the gallop
And possibly all four.
Oh, BTW before anyone uses the "but he's young yet" line, he's still a year older than Ciolek.
I'm with Timoid on this one.
I'm guessing you didn't watch the 3 Days of De Panne last week?
Cheers, Andy
But I could equally make reference to this, from cyclingnews:
"One rider was extremely irritated after the race. Mark Cavendish couldn't deliver the win for High Road, since he didn't even sprint. "Too dangerous, too dangerous," the British rider shouted. "There was no wind and people sprinted who can't even sprint. Okay, it's their right, as it's a one-day race." Cavendish continued fuming. "I nearly crashed five times in the last two kilometres. Five times!" Did he have the legs to win? "Yes, but I didn't even sprint."
Items 2) and 4), I believe
Its funny how he hadn't the same opinion about non-name sprinters when he beat them in De Panne'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
Hi there.
The trick with Cavendish is to not listen to a single thing he says. He's young and brash and prone to shooting his mouth off. We he speaks it's pure entertainment - but don't make the mistake of taking his opinions seriously.
He did clim well enough to get over the Kemmelberg twice and finish with the lead group. At De Panne Hammond did a great job of bringing him up to the front, then bring him back up when he sliped back. The finale of Wevelgem was a lot faster though.
Cav's tactics will improve (hopefully), but his jump is already spectacular. He won't beat Pettachi or Hushovd if they've got a 7 man lead out traiin doing 60kph, but in a McEwan style messy sprint with a complicated, run in, and slower starting speeds he is fantastic to watch. How far back was he when he started his sprint in the 2nd day of De Panne? How many other riders would have gone for that gap without flinching?
In the Tour of California 'win' he was so far back and jumped so wide that the finish line cameramen didn't spot him.
What kind of sprint would you rather watch? Pettachi vs Hushovd with a team of lead out drone units, or McEwan vs Cavendish when anything can happen?
Cheers, Andy[/b]0 -
Which kind of sprint do I want to watch? - TBH, neither type frosts my doughnut at the moment. I fully agree with your "lead-out drone" comment - Cipo has a lot to answer for- but the bulk of the McEwen type of sprinting depends very much on being able to leverage from the lead-out trains. The interview with Eric Vanderarden in this months CycleSport had me hankering for the '80s sprints with him, Kelly, Anderson etc. At most, a couple of lead-out men each, spectacular bike control and brains left behind at the flambe rouge. If I have to pick a "type" of current sprinting, it would have to be Freire, simply because there is no formula. He can come from 50m or 500m, small group or big bunch, no gap too small and great tactical nous.
Interesting the comment about Hammond having to bring Cav up not once but twice in De Panne. Kimmage wrote about the huge step-up in rider density in the bunch on turning pro, riding along with other riders brake levers jamming you in arse. Some riders are more comfortable moving through this than others'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
cav is still an ace sprinter and better at it than ciolek.
schlederpris has cobbles too.0 -
Comparing McEwen and Cavendish is way off the mark, IMO. OK, so they both have really bad leadout trains, though HR could mount a very serious one if they got their sh!t together. That's where the comparison stops. McEwen is Mr. Bike Control, jumping into ridiculously small gaps without raising too much hell, while Cav is a sketch-o-rama in a tight bunch. That is something you can learn, but, just as with descending, if you start out with the fear, you'll be hard-pressed to catch up to the naturals.
And this observation is not supposed to be demeaning in the slightest. I really like Cav (when his mouth is closed) but it is a part of his character as a racing cyclist. But, of course, said observation is also done without a trace of chest-thumping patriotism in sight.0 -
its easier to compare cav to mcewen than say, cipo0
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freddymerckx wrote:its easier to compare cav to mcewen than say, cipo
Yeah, in my mind, Cav has an outstanding jump from a relatively low speed into a sprint, similar to McEwen while Cipo and Pettachi's strengths are when starting their sprint while already travelling at near warp speed.
Having been watching some BMX recently (getting ready for the Olympics!) I can see why McEwen is comfortable fighting elbow to elbow in the Belgian pack. Maybe we should get Shanaze to give Cavendish some tips?
Cheers, Andy0 -
andrewgturnbull wrote:freddymerckx wrote:its easier to compare cav to mcewen than say, cipo
Yeah, in my mind, Cav has an outstanding jump from a relatively low speed into a sprint, similar to McEwen while Cipo and Pettachi's strengths are when starting their sprint while already travelling at near warp speed.
Having been watching some BMX recently (getting ready for the Olympics!) I can see why McEwen is comfortable fighting elbow to elbow in the Belgian pack. Maybe we should get Shanaze to give Cavendish some tips?
Cheers, Andy
mcewen used to be a BMXer didnt he????0 -
"I sprinted and I thought I had won," noted Boonen. "I didn't see anybody. ... He [Cavendish] is very fast and is like McEwen with a great acceleration in the last 50 metres. I have won here two times and we did our best, but it didn't work out this time." Cavendish concurred, stating that "I am not the strongest, but I think I am the fastest. You could see my speed at the end."
That's what I meant!0 -
THANK YOU.
THIS IS A CAVENDISH WIN, NO?0
