Slipstream
They've been hanging out with Tom Danielson way too much
From here
Each race the guys you can tell the guys are learning a lot and taking back a lot of information,” Backstedt said. “People seem excited to learn. This is a young team, and the whole motivational side is really high. They’re motivation rubs off on me and it’s a good mix.”
I expect he'll use the term "super excited" before long.
If they weren't an english speaking team, no one would give a toss. Discuss.
From here
Each race the guys you can tell the guys are learning a lot and taking back a lot of information,” Backstedt said. “People seem excited to learn. This is a young team, and the whole motivational side is really high. They’re motivation rubs off on me and it’s a good mix.”
I expect he'll use the term "super excited" before long.
If they weren't an english speaking team, no one would give a toss. Discuss.
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
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iainf72 wrote:They've been hanging out with Tom Danielson way too much
From here
Each race the guys you can tell the guys are learning a lot and taking back a lot of information,” Backstedt said. “People seem excited to learn. This is a young team, and the whole motivational side is really high. They’re motivation rubs off on me and it’s a good mix.”
I expect he'll use the term "super excited" before long.
If they weren't an english speaking team, no one would give a toss. Discuss.
I reckon they are worth following...they're even doing their own tests for indirect signs of HGH use and that is not something to be knocked...they will remove riders based ona test WADA won't yet use...at least that is my reading of their website section. That is good , no? What else are they supposed to do Iain? Nothing?0 -
Dave_1 wrote:
I reckon they are worth following...they're even doing their own tests for indirect signs of HGH use and that is not something to be knocked...they will remove riders based ona test WADA won't yet use...at least that is my reading of their website section. That is good , no? What else are they supposed to do Iain? Nothing?
All I was wondering was if they were - Oh, I don't know, Italian, didn't ever win anything but had a strong anti-doping message, would anyone care?
Hopefully everyone learnt their lesson from T-Mobiles attempt at anti-doping as marketing last year.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
I've listened to the interview with Vaughters on the Competitor Radio show and it really doesn't seem to me like his main aim is to garner publicity for anti-doping ahead of anything else. I also don't see anything wrong with Magnus's comments, they're hardly gushing, just talking up the guys in his team. If an Italian on an Italian team did that, would anyone remark on it?
As for "All I was wondering was if they were - Oh, I don't know, Italian, didn't ever win anything but had a strong anti-doping message, would anyone care?"
- we 'd first need an Italian team with a strong anti-doping message before we could judge that one! Are there any...?Le Blaireau (1)0 -
DaveyL wrote:- we 'd first need an Italian team with a strong anti-doping message before we could judge that one! Are there any...?
Amore e Vita-McDonalds, sponsored by the Pope! (If that teams still exists?)
They used to get the same kind of results Slipstream are getting now...0 -
Quite. I doubt we will see one any time soon. Maybe it is PR but it's the sort of PR I'd rather read about.0
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afx237vi wrote:DaveyL wrote:- we 'd first need an Italian team with a strong anti-doping message before we could judge that one! Are there any...?
Amore e Vita-McDonalds, sponsored by the Pope! (If that teams still exists?)
They used to get the same kind of results Slipstream are getting now...
Beat me to it. Amore e Vita has had clean tradition stretching back for 15 years and never get a mention in the english speaking press or invites to anything big.
http://www.amoreevita.com/indexeng.htm
Although isn't having the man in white backing you somewhat unfairly performance enhancing?
It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
Hurray. I'm right again. :P
It's only coz they speak english that anyone cares. I'm pretty sure they got invites to the Grand Tours off the back of being American rather than any moral position. You need some kind of 'merican interest to sell TV rights to American broadcasters.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
So is Slipstream vs Amore e vita an equal comparison? I wouldn't have thought so, unless riders of the calibre of Millar, Backstedt, Danieslon etc. are lurking there just now. And what exactly does their anti-doping programme consist of? That they've sworn to Papa that they're clean? Granted, as an anti-doping statement, it's better than telling Evil Bob you're clean but still...
If they're just being invited because they're American, why did they get the invite and not, for example, Rock Racing, or some other equally worthy team? Le Blaireau (1)0 -
PS I would love to see a top tier Spanish or Italian team (because evidently Slipstream are a top tier US team) sign up to a stringent, 1200 tests-a-year anti-doping programme, so we could make a fair comparison. But I'm not holding my breath.
And thank goodness Amore e Vita don't go in for vile Yankee PR, and those shots of the riders meeting and greeting JP are just there for "moral" reasons...Le Blaireau (1)0 -
DaveyL wrote:PS I would love to see a top tier Spanish or Italian team (because evidently Slipstream are a top tier US team) sign up to a stringent, 1200 tests-a-year anti-doping programme, so we could make a fair comparison. But I'm not holding my breath.
And thank goodness Amore e Vita don't go in for vile Yankee PR, and those shots of the riders meeting and greeting JP are just there for "moral" reasons...
Some day somebody should show you what end of the stick to hold.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
Be my guest! It's usually my style to counter mildly ridiculous premises with even more ridiculous ones - I wasn't under the impression people were being wholly serious here, maybe they are! But for sure any team with a sponsor is selling something.Le Blaireau (1)0
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DaveyL wrote:So is Slipstream vs Amore e vita an equal comparison? I wouldn't have thought so, unless riders of the calibre of Millar, Backstedt, Danieslon etc. are lurking there just now. And what exactly does their anti-doping programme consist of? That they've sworn to Papa that they're clean? Granted, as an anti-doping statement, it's better than telling Evil Bob you're clean but still...
Are any of them actually any good? Millar isn't the same rider sans jus, Backstedt seems spent and TD - Well, he's not done much has he? And if you can get results riding on Discovery while being trained by Dr Ferrari, well then heaven help you.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Hurray. I'm right again. :P
It's only coz they speak english that anyone cares. I'm pretty sure they got invites to the Grand Tours off the back of being American rather than any moral position. You need some kind of 'merican interest to sell TV rights to American broadcasters.
They've got invites 'cos they've created a brand image that resonates well with the zeitgeist and pushed it & pushed it & pushed it. Terribly successfully too.
Whether they're clean or not is almost irrelevant just now. They are, however, the team that has created the most powerful brand image & said image appears very relevant. To ignore them would have a sub-text of ignoring doping, thus race organisers really can't this year.
If their results don't improve, then there may be a reason for organisers & the press to start ignoring them.
Marketing's great, isn't it? Rock Racing pulled off the same trick before apparently imploding. T-Mob almost pulled off the same trick last year, but forgot to sort the skeletons in the closet. We, the fans, continue to buy it fairly thoroughly, so it will continue...0 -
iainf72 wrote:DaveyL wrote:So is Slipstream vs Amore e vita an equal comparison? I wouldn't have thought so, unless riders of the calibre of Millar, Backstedt, Danieslon etc. are lurking there just now. And what exactly does their anti-doping programme consist of? That they've sworn to Papa that they're clean? Granted, as an anti-doping statement, it's better than telling Evil Bob you're clean but still...
Are any of them actually any good? Millar isn't the same rider sans jus, Backstedt seems spent and TD - Well, he's not done much has he? And if you can get results riding on Discovery while being trained by Dr Ferrari, well then heaven help you.
No, you're probably right, because you're always right, that they're all crap. But it doesn't matter whether they're good or not, they just need to be on the same level as the boys from that clean Italian team to make the comparison valid. This is starting to hurt now, maybe I should go do some hill intervals instead
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Richrd2205 wrote:They've got invites 'cos they've created a brand image that resonates well with the zeitgeist and pushed it & pushed it & pushed it. Terribly successfully too.
Whether they're clean or not is almost irrelevant just now. They are, however, the team that has created the most powerful brand image & said image appears very relevant. To ignore them would have a sub-text of ignoring doping, thus race organisers really can't this year.
If their results don't improve, then there may be a reason for organisers & the press to start ignoring them.
Marketing's great, isn't it? Rock Racing pulled off the same trick before apparently imploding. T-Mob almost pulled off the same trick last year, but forgot to sort the skeletons in the closet. We, the fans, continue to buy it fairly thoroughly, so it will continue...
Terribly successful at the moment. How long can it last without any results? This time next year the gloss will have worn and the preachiness will have got boring. Will they continue to get the big headlines and the big invites next year too?
And I agree with iain... they made a few big signings, but they aren't actually that good are they? Millar and Backstedt are both past it and Danielson never had it in the first place... their next best rider is who, Farrar? Julian Dean?!
And the reason Amore e Vita never signed up to an extensive and independent anti-doping system is probably because they aren't bankrolled by a Wall Street multi-millionaire cycling fan. But look, you can see how serious they are about anti-doping because they put this animated gif on their website:
What more do you want?!0 -
afx237vi wrote:Richrd2205 wrote:They've got invites 'cos they've created a brand image that resonates well with the zeitgeist and pushed it & pushed it & pushed it. Terribly successfully too.
Whether they're clean or not is almost irrelevant just now. They are, however, the team that has created the most powerful brand image & said image appears very relevant. To ignore them would have a sub-text of ignoring doping, thus race organisers really can't this year.
If their results don't improve, then there may be a reason for organisers & the press to start ignoring them.
Marketing's great, isn't it? Rock Racing pulled off the same trick before apparently imploding. T-Mob almost pulled off the same trick last year, but forgot to sort the skeletons in the closet. We, the fans, continue to buy it fairly thoroughly, so it will continue...
Terribly successful at the moment. How long can it last without any results? This time next year the gloss will have worn and the preachiness will have got boring. Will they continue to get the big headlines and the big invites next year too?
And I agree with iain... they made a few big signings, but they aren't actually that good are they? Millar and Backstedt are both past it and Danielson never had it in the first place... their next best rider is who, Farrar? Julian Dean?!
And the reason Amore e Vita never signed up to an extensive and independent anti-doping system is probably because they aren't bankrolled by a Wall Street multi-millionaire cycling fan. But look, you can see how serious they are about anti-doping because they put this animated gif on their website:
What more do you want?!
I think Millar isn't past it yet. he won a stage of the Vuelta in 06 post dope ban so I think he can still produce some good wins but he is clean now and it shows0 -
Err, I think my post has been misunderstood, I meant that their marketing has been terribly successful...
See, I made reference to their not-very-good-ness here:If their results don't improve, then there may be a reason for organisers & the press to start ignoring them.
Sorry, for not being clearer...
:oops:0 -
Also second in the Tour of California this year,then poorly for Paris Nice,which shows he's still up for it,& getting poorly after shows he rode out of his skin (rather than a bottle!) to achieve said resultDave_1 wrote:afx237vi wrote:Richrd2205 wrote:They've got invites 'cos they've created a brand image that resonates well with the zeitgeist and pushed it & pushed it & pushed it. Terribly successfully too.
Whether they're clean or not is almost irrelevant just now. They are, however, the team that has created the most powerful brand image & said image appears very relevant. To ignore them would have a sub-text of ignoring doping, thus race organisers really can't this year.
If their results don't improve, then there may be a reason for organisers & the press to start ignoring them.
Marketing's great, isn't it? Rock Racing pulled off the same trick before apparently imploding. T-Mob almost pulled off the same trick last year, but forgot to sort the skeletons in the closet. We, the fans, continue to buy it fairly thoroughly, so it will continue...
Terribly successful at the moment. How long can it last without any results? This time next year the gloss will have worn and the preachiness will have got boring. Will they continue to get the big headlines and the big invites next year too?
And I agree with iain... they made a few big signings, but they aren't actually that good are they? Millar and Backstedt are both past it and Danielson never had it in the first place... their next best rider is who, Farrar? Julian Dean?!
And the reason Amore e Vita never signed up to an extensive and independent anti-doping system is probably because they aren't bankrolled by a Wall Street multi-millionaire cycling fan. But look, you can see how serious they are about anti-doping because they put this animated gif on their website:
What more do you want?!
I think Millar isn't past it yet. he won a stage of the Vuelta in 06 post dope ban so I think he can still produce some good wins but he is clean now and it shows
Seems we have the usual British problem of getting one of ours to the top,then slagging them?so many cols,so little time!0 -
Richrd2205 wrote:Err, I think my post has been misunderstood, I meant that their marketing has been terribly successful...
See, I made reference to their not-very-good-ness here:If their results don't improve, then there may be a reason for organisers & the press to start ignoring them.
Sorry, for not being clearer...
:oops:
No my fault, I didn't read your post properly. Looks like we both agree...0 -
afx237vi wrote:
No my fault, I didn't read your post properly. Looks like we both agree...
No bother &, yes, it looks like a lot of hype with little (as yet, to be fair) substance...
That animated .gif from their site really is quite poor too....0 -
Outside of the Millar / Backstedt / Danielson/Zabriskie headliners, there are some good riders in the squad such as Farrar and Pate. However the most coverage they have got since Paris nice is a few photos of Steven Cozza's 'tache.
Things will be difficult for a small squad but no more difficult for them than for Mitsubishi-Jartazi, Skil-Shimano, Topsport, Landboukredit etc. Why Slipstream don't sacrifice one of their riders for one of those "away-day" breaks is beyond me. At least they'd be getting some exposure. Notice yesterday with about 120km to go how the four teams represented in the break sent groups of their riders to take turns sitting up front of the bunch so you'd see Mitsubishi in the break and then you'd see 4-5 more of them in the front. They'd then slip back and Skil moved up front for a bit more TV coverage and so on. Apart from a half-second of Farrar on the Muur and Maaskant coming over the line in the chasing group I didn't see any sign of Slipstream.'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
afx237vi wrote:And the reason Amore e Vita never signed up to an extensive and independent anti-doping system is probably because they aren't bankrolled by a Wall Street multi-millionaire cycling fan. But look, you can see how serious they are about anti-doping because they put this animated gif on their website:
What more do you want?!
Look on the bright side - its only a syringe. Thanfully there isn't a gif of someone slapping testosterone patches on their nadgers with a big red line through it.'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
DaveyL wrote:afx237vi wrote:But look, you can see how serious they are about anti-doping because they put this animated gif on their website:
What more do you want?!
It could be bigger
I'd have like to have seen a guy with a beard grinning next to it, giving a thumbs up. Perhaps he could be wearing a team racing jersey too and a hat saying "I'm new here"Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Yes there is, it's... Oh. Wrong website. :oops:Le Blaireau (1)0
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iainf72 wrote:DaveyL wrote:afx237vi wrote:But look, you can see how serious they are about anti-doping because they put this animated gif on their website:
What more do you want?!
It could be bigger
I'd have like to have seen a guy with a beard grinning next to it, giving a thumbs up. Perhaps he could be wearing a team racing jersey too and a hat saying "I'm new here"
It would be cooler if that guy was actually the Pope.0 -
I prefer teams that go on about being clean rather than the quietness, vague statements about it, defending the riders rights constantly...I prefer slipstream's stance...they are showing they have nothing to hide...surely they would keep quiet if they had skeletons? I think they have not0
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Dave_1 wrote:I prefer teams that go on about being clean rather than the quietness, vague statements about it, defending the riders rights constantly...I prefer slipstream's stance...they are showing they have nothing to hide...surely they would keep quiet if they had skeletons? I think they have not
T-Mobile had a whole cemetery full of them but it didn't stop their Sermons from the Mount.
I think Slipstream do have a skeleton or two, but it would be difficult to create a team with pro riders from the late-90's onwards that is entirely blemish-free.'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
I know it's an hour long, and who's got the time these days, but have a listen to this interview with Vaughters before deciding to pass judgement on the guy and his team:
http://www.competitorradio.com/shows/18 ... ghters.mp3Le Blaireau (1)0 -
LangerDan wrote:Dave_1 wrote:I prefer teams that go on about being clean rather than the quietness, vague statements about it, defending the riders rights constantly...I prefer slipstream's stance...they are showing they have nothing to hide...surely they would keep quiet if they had skeletons? I think they have not
T-Mobile had a whole cemetery full of them but it didn't stop their Sermons from the Mount.
I think Slipstream do have a skeleton or two, but it would be difficult to create a team with pro riders from the late-90's onwards that is entirely blemish-free.
they had dopers forced to confess..riders from before stapleton. They used blood volume testing in 06 or 07 and they deserved to be able to shout about it-it was more than other teams were doing to monitor riders attempts at manipulation.0
