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Riding and weight training

NeilioNeilio Posts: 60
edited April 2008 in Health, fitness & training
For the last month or so ive been weight training as i need to bulk up quite abit, (6'3" and skinny as a rake), i do 4 days a week of weight training, usually mon, tues, thurs and friday.

Recently i built up a bike to start riding and have gone out 4 times in the past week (along with weight training), i aim to carry on going out but incresing distance as i get fitter.

I want to know is doing both going to affect each other? ie as im looking to bulk up but also doing cardio will it have a negative effect?

Diet is good (im diabetic) i take protein and creatine for the weight training, but nothing for the biking, not even recovery drinks.

Anyone any thoughts ?
Kona Caldera 08, hope, easton, SLX parts.

Kona Kilauea carbon, deciding spec.

Posts

  • ride_wheneverride_whenever Posts: 13,279
    You don't need to take anything with the cycling, but you seem to be doing quite a lot, so 'd suggest getting plenty of fluids and possibly try some recovery drinks just to see if there are any that suit you.

    Why are you trying to bulk up? Might it not be better to be lean and strong rather than just big...
  • NeilioNeilio Posts: 60
    Cheers, the reason is im really skinny, to the point of snapping lol.

    Just want a more athletic physique, will hopefully help me gain abit of confidence aswell.
    Kona Caldera 08, hope, easton, SLX parts.

    Kona Kilauea carbon, deciding spec.
  • MatteeboyMatteeboy Posts: 996
    Neilo - I know exactly how you feel!
    I was the same for ages and managed to put on three stone of useful weight after years of not gaining anything - simply found the right routine, appetite shot up and hey presto big gains in weight and strength.

    I was very wary of cardio for a while having struggled (I was very fit but 9.5 stone!) for ages.

    I would say take it easy while you weight gain, then you can revert to "maintenance" weights (much less intense) and do as much cycling as you want.

    Oh and watch the diet and up the protein intake.

    Whatever hardcore cyclists say, I think there is a huge advantage is having more upper body strength for MTBing as well as the obvious benefits from leg strength.

    The whippet look is not a good one either IMO!
    Two Stumpjumpers, a Rockhopper Disk and an old British Eagle.

    http://www.cornwallmtb.kk5.org
  • What sort of weight training are you doing? Four days a week seems like an awful lot. Also, how old are you? I did the whole 6'5" and 12 stone for a long time, then in my early to mid 20's my body changed enough to let me gain weight. Serious weight training shouldn't be done too young.

    I trained with a serious coach (he'd coached Cambridge lightweights for the Boat Race a few years before) at a rowing club and we did 2 sessions a week, Monday and Thursday, nicely spaced out. Essentially you build muscle bulk by working the muscle beyond it's limits, then giving it a couple of days to heal, then doing it again.

    Our first task was to find our max weights for each exercise. You need a couple of friends to support and be ready to take the weights when you fail. Start at a comfortable weight, do 10 reps, go up a weight, do 5 reps, go up a weight, do 5 reps, go up a weight, do 2 reps. Then continue to climb through the weights until you fail to do 2 reps. This is a max weight for you.

    To build muscle an exercise program should consist of something like the following.

    1 x 10 reps at 60% of max weight,
    3 x 5 reps at 70 - 75% of max weight
    1 x 8 reps at 60% of max weight.

    For general fitness and toning go for 1 x 12(35%), 3 x 15(45%), 1 x 10(40%).

    If you can train with two friends you can rotatte through each set of reps and the others can act as spotters for the one lifting.

    You shouldn't be able to complete all the reps on the first go. When you do manage to do all the reps 2 sessions in a row, then it's time to increase the weight slightly.

    IMPORTANT: THese are serious weights, and should only be done if your technique is perfect, you've been checked out by a fitness instructor, and you have spotters with you. If I remember correctly, the sort of weights I was using was 45 -50 kgs for a bench press, and power clean, about 80 kgs for a dead lift and up to about 110kgs for a leg press. Get the technique wrong and you back will be well and truly screwed.

    This worked wonders for me, I gained about 2 inches across the shoulders during one winter. As I say, get everything checked out properly first, and be very careful!

    Pop along to the gym you go to and ask there. I'm sure they'll have a recommended program that can be tuned to suit you.
    Proved by testing to be faster than a badger.
    The world's ultimate marmite bike
  • MatteeboyMatteeboy Posts: 996
    I weight trained four days a week in a split routine - worked very well.

    Vital thing I reckon to that the last rep of every set is to failure.
    Two Stumpjumpers, a Rockhopper Disk and an old British Eagle.

    http://www.cornwallmtb.kk5.org
  • NeilioNeilio Posts: 60
    Im 27, but been on and off the wieghts for the last 10years, i used to race xc and DH and was always skinny then.

    Im going low reps (5-8) for 3 sets at about 75% max weight.workout lasts no longer than 45 mins, im not doing full body sets each time, i do back + biceps one day and then chest triceps and shoulders the next.

    I just want to get it clear im not after being a big meaty censored , im currently 14.5 stone, have very little fat and not alot of muscle, i have bones sticking out everywhere though.

    All weights are done at home, using a bench, barbell, dumbells and EZ bar. I will be joining a gym very soon so i might just cut back on the weights till i have had a sit down and discussed it with a pro.
    Kona Caldera 08, hope, easton, SLX parts.

    Kona Kilauea carbon, deciding spec.
  • Matteeboy wrote:
    I weight trained four days a week in a split routine - worked very well.

    Vital thing I reckon to that the last rep of every set is to failure.

    Agree with you about having to fail a rep to make it worth it. By split routine do you mean you did half one night, then half the next, then first half again, then second half again. In other words, each muscle group twice a week with a break in between? Pretty much the same as we did above, but more spread out. Our sessions would take up to 2 hours, so I see the reason for splitting them.
    Proved by testing to be faster than a badger.
    The world's ultimate marmite bike
  • Neilio wrote:
    I want to know is doing both going to affect each other? ie as im looking to bulk up but also doing cardio will it have a negative effect?

    AS above, whilst doing that weight training we were do loads of time rowing on the water and on rowing machines. We did a regular 20k on the machines each Wednesday, so cardio training will not have any detrimental effect. You'll be exercising different parts of the muscles!
    Proved by testing to be faster than a badger.
    The world's ultimate marmite bike
  • MatteeboyMatteeboy Posts: 996
    Neilo - you are 14.5 stone and wanting to add more weight?!
    Blimey! :shock:

    Jesse - I trained each body area (e.g. chest, back, legs) once a week and did cardio and abs every session.

    To be honest you have to do HUGE amounts of cardio to actually lose muscle but it's more a case of letting your body rest properly and recover - after all, weight training is more or less damaging the muscles and making them repair, but bigger/stronger!

    Your cardiovascular system also needs rest or you'll end up getting ill and run down - a mate did this and was out of action for months.

    Resting is very important.

    I can see the "can you do a chinese press up" line being wheeled out again soon - a serious test of upper body strength!
    Two Stumpjumpers, a Rockhopper Disk and an old British Eagle.

    http://www.cornwallmtb.kk5.org
  • Ah, I've never had upper body strength! I've got lower body strength, and whole body strength, but things like press ups or chest presses, I always come out really badly.
    Proved by testing to be faster than a badger.
    The world's ultimate marmite bike
  • MatteeboyMatteeboy Posts: 996
    My weights routine and lots of surfing means upper body strength is my forte.

    I dio however have the sort of legs that a wren would snigger at. They work fine, but are the polar opposite of a rugby props pins!
    Two Stumpjumpers, a Rockhopper Disk and an old British Eagle.

    http://www.cornwallmtb.kk5.org
  • NeilioNeilio Posts: 60
    Yep 14.5 stone, its not muscle and its not fat, so i must have big bones lol.

    Im going to cut down for now till ive joined a proper gym.

    Thanks for all the advice guys. 8)
    Kona Caldera 08, hope, easton, SLX parts.

    Kona Kilauea carbon, deciding spec.
  • endurojcbendurojcb Posts: 167
    Over the winter I normally go to the gym 4-5 times a week and do the following every time:

    4 x 13 reps on biceps 10kg (each arm)
    4 x 13 reps on butterfly curls 12.5kg (each arm)
    4 x 13 resp on upper back (exact opposit to the butterfly curl) 15kg
    4 x 13 reps on bench press 17.5kg (each arm)
    4 x 13 reps on triceps 20kg (each arm)
    4 x 15 reps on lateral pulldowns 50kg
    4 x 50 ab crunches
    30 mins cycling 160-170bps intensity
    30 mins on a cross trainer 150-160bps intensity

    I normally have wednesdays, saturdays and sundays off from the gym. Sometimes go biking at the weekends too (every other weekend in the winter)

    In the summer I do weights 3 days a week and go biking outdoors 4 days a week.

    Keeps me in shape (ISH). I'm 29, 5ft 8" and 13st 4lb's with a stone of lard (all beer) covering my temple of a body. lol

    I want to loose that 1 stone this summer!
    2007 Merlin Malt 4
  • MatteeboyMatteeboy Posts: 996
    Enduro - I'd up the weights and drop the reps a bit - that's too many reps in there - you'll overtrain and hurt yourself.

    Also vary the weights a bit for variety - surely you must get bored?!

    For example, when bench pressing I would do 15 x 75kg, 12 x 85kg, 8-10 x 100kg then 6-8 x 125kg - each set to failure.
    The first sets get your muscles "set" for the important killer sets.

    I now do a home routine (no intention of adding more weight) that involves very little kit but does the trick quite well.

    Years of weight training and kickboxing instruction have honed it down to a shortish but effective routine.
    Two Stumpjumpers, a Rockhopper Disk and an old British Eagle.

    http://www.cornwallmtb.kk5.org
  • jmeadowsjmeadows Posts: 335
    [/quote]
    the confidence issue is more than a physical thing, i got into the weights as a young lad cos i was short back then, i thought people would give me more respect if i was chesty!
    ended up a full blown juice head, luckily had a good family behind me to get me off them.
    be careful if you are doin the weights with confidence in mind, theres usually a deeper issue to address
    never hurts your eyes to look on the bright side of life...
  • endurojcbendurojcb Posts: 167
    Matteeboy wrote:
    Enduro - I'd up the weights and drop the reps a bit - that's too many reps in there - you'll overtrain and hurt yourself.

    Also vary the weights a bit for variety - surely you must get bored?!

    For example, when bench pressing I would do 15 x 75kg, 12 x 85kg, 8-10 x 100kg then 6-8 x 125kg - each set to failure.
    The first sets get your muscles "set" for the important killer sets.

    I now do a home routine (no intention of adding more weight) that involves very little kit but does the trick quite well.

    Years of weight training and kickboxing instruction have honed it down to a shortish but effective routine.

    Not really, I just plug my iPod in and away I go. The weights and crunches normally take me about 45-50 mins depending on how busy the gym is.

    I've got myself to the size I want to be, so figured the best aproach to stay the same size was to stay with the same weight but up the reps. I guess you could say I'm trying to keep my current upper body strenght but increase the muscle endurance with that strength. I planned to increase by 1 rep every 10 days or so.
    2007 Merlin Malt 4
  • tonywartonywar Posts: 34
    I think muscle gain and cardio and cardio are a paradox. To gain muscle you need the calories as well as protein. Cardio uses a lot of calories. You need to take in alot of calories with your exercise regime. I recommend you take a look at this site http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/index.html lots of information there.

    Good luck.
  • MatteeboyMatteeboy Posts: 996
    Yes but Tony, to remain toned, you need to do cardio or you end up looking like a "Strongman" competitor - very strong but packing lots of fat.

    I think there's a danger in just weightlifting without doing any cardio - you end up with a poor cardiovascular system and unable to use the strength you have gained.

    Like all things, unless you want to compete in bodybuilding (!) then you need a balance. Strength and power but also fitness - boxers are a good example of getting the balance about right IMO.
    Two Stumpjumpers, a Rockhopper Disk and an old British Eagle.

    http://www.cornwallmtb.kk5.org
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