WIggins Wins Worlds

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Comments

  • ContrelaMontre
    ContrelaMontre Posts: 3,027
    Kléber wrote:

    There are so many medals on offer at the worlds. For example, why are medals awarded for the sprint and keirin, both reward the same skill. The same for the madison and the points race. It's much easier to point to the World RR and TT champ as the best of the best, no?

    But the World RR and TT champ are only the best at that particular race because everything conspires in their favour - their talent, the course, the weather, the tactics of others etc. And the courses are different every year, this means in reality the world champ will usually come from a minority of riders depending on weather it's a sprinters' course or not. (Less so for the TT but still the case to some extent).

    Track racing - at least the Pursuit and the Kilo IMO - are probably the purest forms of cycling. Dead easy to understand and all about who is the fastest over a set distance irrelevant (pretty much) of weather, tactics, interference. The courses are always the same so if you are the fastest on boards over 4k you don't have the problem of the course not being right for you.

    The other events are a bit more esoteric - but then look at swimming with how many ways and over how many distances you can swim through a pool.
    Rule No.10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster
  • LangerDan
    LangerDan Posts: 6,132
    FixUpLookSharp wrote:
    Well, Ireland doesn't even have a proper velodrome, so the % of Irish racers competing on track is pretty tiny.

    Go on - admit it, Crumlin is effectively a cobbled track. Nothing ever concentrated the mind like going for a sprint there knowing that a crash would put you straight into the concrete post and chainlink fencing that surrounded it.
    'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'
  • Mike Willcox
    Mike Willcox Posts: 1,770
    Great I thought lets read this thread and see how others are celebrating Bradley Wiggins great win. Apart from a couple of people you would have thought that he had in fact lost. There was a time when we we were getting beaten in all the track events. I don't recall anyone saying then; "well who wants to win what after all is a nothing sideshow"

    I also remember lots of soul searching. Where are we going wrong? We should be doing this or that. We're getting left behind etc. etc.

    So I say. Well Done Bradley. Great Performance! and well done the rest of the team.

    You ARE the best in the world in the 4K pursuit. It's one of the few disciplines around that is entirely about the rider's performance and not other influences. If other riders don't put up at the worlds then they can bloody well shut up. It's their choice.
  • Bronzie
    Bronzie Posts: 4,927
    Mike, I find myself in full agreement with you. Should I be worried? :lol:
    It's a Lifestyle! -+-+- Coggan Training Levels
  • flattythehurdler
    flattythehurdler Posts: 2,314
    I was there yesterday. Never thought as a Paddy I'd be cheering for great britain, but I cheered them to the rafters. It was a fantastic day. If anyone had been there they wouldn't have belittled it one iota. It was a fantastic achievement by British Cycling, and the medals hold just as much value as the world road race title imo. If Cancellara thought he could waltz to a gold medal, he would be there. Horses for courses. It was absolutely a great occasion.
    Dan
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    flattythehurdler wrote:
    I If Cancellara thought he could waltz to a gold medal, he would be there. Horses for courses. It was absolutely a great occasion.


    Win Milan-San Remo or win gold medal at track champs.....Hmmm, which one should I choose....

    Glad you enjoyed yourself.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Mike Willcox
    Mike Willcox Posts: 1,770
    iainf72 wrote:
    flattythehurdler wrote:
    I If Cancellara thought he could waltz to a gold medal, he would be there. Horses for courses. It was absolutely a great occasion.


    Win Milan-San Remo or win gold medal at track champs.....Hmmm, which one should I choose....

    Glad you enjoyed yourself.

    You have to be an extremely whinging negative individual to be able to do that.
  • FixUpLookSharp
    FixUpLookSharp Posts: 66
    Mike Willcox wrote:
    Great I thought lets read this thread and see how others are celebrating Bradley Wiggins great win. Apart from a couple of people you would have thought that he had in fact lost. There was a time when we we were getting beaten in all the track events. I don't recall anyone saying then; "well who wants to win what after all is a nothing sideshow"

    I also remember lots of soul searching. Where are we going wrong? We should be doing this or that. We're getting left behind etc. etc.

    So I say. Well Done Bradley. Great Performance! and well done the rest of the team.

    You ARE the best in the world in the 4K pursuit. It's one of the few disciplines around that is entirely about the rider's performance and not other influences. If other riders don't put up at the worlds then they can bloody well shut up. It's their choice.
    Couldn't agree more, Mike.
    Hipster Nascar: A Blog About Track Cycling - http://www.hipsternascar.com.
  • flattythehurdler
    flattythehurdler Posts: 2,314
    iainf72 wrote:
    flattythehurdler wrote:
    I If Cancellara thought he could waltz to a gold medal, he would be there. Horses for courses. It was absolutely a great occasion.


    Win Milan-San Remo or win gold medal at track champs.....Hmmm, which one should I choose....

    Glad you enjoyed yourself.

    I am sure, but i bet there are plenty of people would rather have an olympic track gold tan a win at Milan San Remo (me for one). -Paris -Roubaix on the other hand...
    Dan
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Mike Willcox wrote:
    You have to be an extremely whinging negative individual to be able to do that.

    Actually, I'm not at all Mike.

    I am happy enough Flatty had a good time. He stated if Cancellera could win the gold, he'd be there. I merely asked what's of more value to a pro cyclist - A gold in pursuit or a win in a monument?
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Mike Willcox
    Mike Willcox Posts: 1,770
    iainf72 wrote:
    Mike Willcox wrote:
    You have to be an extremely whinging negative individual to be able to do that.

    Actually, I'm not at all Mike.

    I am happy enough Flatty had a good time. He stated if Cancellera could win the gold, he'd be there. I merely asked what's of more value to a pro cyclist - A gold in pursuit or a win in a monument?

    Fair point. 8)
  • Mike Willcox
    Mike Willcox Posts: 1,770
    iainf72 wrote:
    Mike Willcox wrote:
    You have to be an extremely whinging negative individual to be able to do that.

    Actually, I'm not at all Mike.

    I am happy enough Flatty had a good time. He stated if Cancellera could win the gold, he'd be there. I merely asked what's of more value to a pro cyclist - A gold in pursuit or a win in a monument?

    Fair point. 8)
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    I'm with Iain - winning a monument means a lot more to a professional cyclist than winning a track world title.

    I'm sure if you compared the salary of a Cancellara, a Bettini or a Boonen with Wiggins' salary then it'll be significantly higher.

    I think Olympic track titles have a bit more kudos.
  • z000m
    z000m Posts: 544
    i would rather have the salary, gold medals are nice to look at but they dont pay the bills.
    New Build
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    z000m wrote:
    i would rather have the salary, gold medals are nice to look at but they dont pay the bills.

    Unless your British and you get lottery funding to race three times a year :wink:

    (I kiiiiiid, I kiiiiid)
  • Mike Willcox
    Mike Willcox Posts: 1,770
    z000m wrote:
    i would rather have the salary, gold medals are nice to look at but they dont pay the bills.

    That old chestnut is usually put out by those who have never won anything. If your name is in the record books then nothing can take it away. Money is transient.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Yes, but you get the salary for winning Milan - San Remo or Paris Roubaix etc, not finishing 17th in the Ronde van Bert's Garden.

    Win a stage in the Tour de France, a classic or wear the leaders jersey in a major Tour and you can dine out on it in many European countries, winning the pursuit or any other track title just isn't the same. Do a poll across Europe and ask them to name a famous cyclist and you'll see what I mean.

    Still, as I keep repeating, it's a fantastic achievement and well done to Wiggins. But there are so many rainbow jerseys awarded within a few days. Once again, can someone explain why there is a sprint and a keirin, and a points race and madison, as these both reward the same riders. It's like being being the world egg and spoon champ or the spoon and egg world champ!
  • Bronzie
    Bronzie Posts: 4,927
    I would argue that riding keirin and sprint are very different disciplines. Yes they require the same basic ingredient (huge sprint speed), but the jockeying for position behind the derny in the keirin is an event in itself, quite different to a pure sprint contest.

    Same goes for points race (ridden solo) and Madison (ridden as teams of 2 with all the associated complications of handslings and avoiding the other riders).

    You may as well ask why have 100m and 110m hurdles. Same thing but different.

    No surprise that BC has concentrated ALL it's efforts in winning track golds - its a numbers game and there are more events hence more chance of winning medals which equates for more funding for BC.

    I see the argument that Wiggins is the best in a small field, but hey, you can only beat those that turn up for the race.
    It's a Lifestyle! -+-+- Coggan Training Levels
  • z000m
    z000m Posts: 544
    medals are what pensioners put on ebay
    New Build
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Bronzie wrote:
    No surprise that BC has concentrated ALL it's efforts in winning track golds - its a numbers game and there are more events hence more chance of winning medals which equates for more funding for BC.
    Very true. All that funding pays for new jobs, blazers, trips to World Cups, Championships, Olympics and more. Meanwhile road races get cancelled and time trialling fields dwindle and what, 5% or 10% of BC's members race on the track? But that's another debate...
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Isnt the sports grant based on how many medals we get ?

    So track - lots of medals = lots of money. Track flourishes and at least some money goes to the road plan.

    If we just did road - we'd get bugger all medals, and no money. So no track and no road anyway.
  • Bronzie
    Bronzie Posts: 4,927
    Kléber wrote:
    Meanwhile road races get cancelled and time trialling fields dwindle and what, 5% or 10% of BC's members race on the track? But that's another debate...
    C'mon Kleber - it's not all bad news for the road - isn't a certain M.Cavendish a product of the track WCPP?
    It's a Lifestyle! -+-+- Coggan Training Levels
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Seems to be the same old arguments trundled out by the luddites ever since BC started to put in place it's WC Performance Plan - The sad fact is that if the same amount of money had been invested a grass-roots level, it would have delivered diddly-squat because the club infrastructure in this country is wholly inadequate to develop talent and is often dominated by self-serving people - the same ones who moan about track funding - but want to race every week but can't been seen for dust when needed to marshall a race! What the track programme has delivered results and media coverage, which in turn attract people to the sport - the UK's history of developing quality road riders is often in spite of the club infrastructure - there would be a better argument to invest in the French club system because it's done more for UK elite road cycling than any UK club!
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • geoff_ss
    geoff_ss Posts: 1,201
    Track cycling is infinitely more enjoyable from a spectators point of view and looks quite exciting to ride as well. More exciting than time trialling at any rate.

    The only reason (apart from marshalling or the occasional ride) I've been to a time trial or road race (even the Tour) was to use it as the focus of a ride. The actual racing isn't exactly exciting unlike track racing which is rarely (never in my experience) boring and often quite the reverse. I'm not much of a spectator (I'm really only interested in sports I've actively competed in myself like motor cycle trials, dinghy racing and cycling) but I thoroughly enjoy the Revolution meeting in the Winter at the velodrome. .

    I gave up marshalling at road races after suffering abuse from some riders and their supporters because I tried to keep them to the left of the white line in an evening 'fish and chipper' race. It wasn't a difficult decision.

    Sports that make money rather than cost it are ones that entertain spectators. In cycling, track racing has far greater potential than any other form. I find it incredible that there should be so much negativity on a cycling forum for a brilliantly successful British performance. If that's the attitude here no wonder the Observer had half a page of cycling in today's Sport section and about a dozen on football.

    Geoff
    Old cyclists never die; they just fit smaller chainrings ... and pedal faster
  • method
    method Posts: 784
    z000m wrote:
    i would rather have the salary, gold medals are nice to look at but they dont pay the bills.

    According to an article someone on here posted a while back, I think it may have been from the BBC? but basically they were saying and Olympic gold sets you up for life financially.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Geoff_SS wrote:

    Sports that make money rather than cost it are ones that entertain spectators. In cycling, track racing has far greater potential than any other form.

    I'd have to disagree. Compare the number of track meetings to registered road events in Europe and you'll see where the interest is. The spectacle of a big road event is difficult to beat (think classics or a mountain stage of a grand tour)

    You get people like me who've tried to like track cycling, but it bores the pants off of me.

    I'm not sure performance on the track does anymore for the cause of the bicycle in the UK. I've been told in the past I should "ride on a track not on the road" by a couple of motorists.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • skavanagh.bikeradar
    skavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    Hang on folks! I'm quite sure BC are fully aware that the road is 'where it's at', but simple economics dictates that their focus upto now has been on the track due to the Olympic Gold medals = more funding for BC.

    For sure they need to start doing something about the imbalance this is causing - witness the cancellation of elite events in the UK and the reputation of the Tour of Britain. I guess they'd say that the riders coming up through the WCPP are now starting to find their feet and niche in the continental road teams and that this will over time improve the situation on the road. How long has it taken to get to the point where GB win all these gold medals on the track? It wasn't overnight, but they did it.

    It's raising the profile of cycling too, it's one of the few Olympic sports we are now any good at, and some of the riders will be known by tv viewers that don't have all that much interest in cycling ordinarily. That's good! Gold medals! More money! TV exposure! Lets hope this starts flowing into the road over the next few years.

    You can't blame BC for their focus on the track up to now. What we need is Nicole Cooke to win the Olympic road race and someone to get a medal in the TT.
  • skavanagh.bikeradar
    skavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    Hang on folks! I'm quite sure BC are fully aware that the road is 'where it's at', but simple economics dictates that their focus upto now has been on the track due to the Olympic Gold medals = more funding for BC.

    For sure they need to start doing something about the imbalance this is causing - witness the cancellation of elite events in the UK and the reputation of the Tour of Britain. I guess they'd say that the riders coming up through the WCPP are now starting to find their feet and niche in the continental road teams and that this will over time improve the situation on the road. How long has it taken to get to the point where GB win all these gold medals on the track? It wasn't overnight, but they did it.

    It's raising the profile of cycling too, it's one of the few Olympic sports we are now any good at, and some of the riders will be known by tv viewers that don't have all that much interest in cycling ordinarily. That's good! Gold medals! More money! TV exposure! Lets hope this starts flowing into the road over the next few years.

    You can't blame BC for their focus on the track up to now. What we need is Nicole Cooke to win the Olympic road race and someone to get a medal in the TT.
  • G man
    G man Posts: 57
    The GB team have done amazingly well on the track. It's not surprising that the majority of the funding went to the track rather than the road, because in the U.K. an olympic gold medal is far more important to the non cycling general public than winning a stage of the tour de France. If they pull in a big medal haul at the olympics, it's surely good for the profile of cycling in this country. It's easy to be flippant about sporting achievements of others, but I don't think the athletes will be that arsed if they win gold medals at the olympics, and people on this message boards say "it's not the Tour de France though". Some athletes train for years, and never realise their dream of representing their country at the olympics. Bring on Beijing - I'll be watching it , even if some of you miserable lot aren't interested!
    G man
    A Bradley Wiggins fan
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