Rob Hayles not allowed to ride at Track World Champs
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Nothing?Le Blaireau (1)0
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ricadus wrote:vermooten wrote:
From what little I know, I think there's less chance of that than that he's yet another arse who's helping to bring cycling to its knees. Who needs sponsors anyway?jimmythecuckoo wrote:Stupid question but just what are the chances of a natural 50% ?
What little I know, "normal" is more likely low 40%s, but then elite athletes aren't normal by definition.
It's possible. Exemptions for haematocrit levels above 50% are available for those who live permanently at altitude e.g Columbians, those with a hereditary disposition to high HCT and (I think) those with a injury or condition that leads to high levels. AFAIK, Charly Wegelius has such a dispensation - he has a very high level (I think his dad was also tested to show it is an inherited condition) and he also lost his spleen in a quad accident in Wicklow leading to large fluctuations. However I think the exemptions are only for up to 52 - 54%'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
According to the report on Velonews, he's had fairly high HCT before.
But there ain't no smoke without fire.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
If he's someone who's been close the limit for some time, then British Cycling will have a stack of previous tests and medical documents. And Hayles himself will have an even bigger pile of proof, so he should be relaxed and dare I say it, "calm".
If not, then he's done for and his methods will cast a cloud of suspicion over the rest of the GB team, despite their protestations.0 -
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Brailsford was in the restaurant in Biarritz when Millar was arrested...0
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Watched a bit of the Eurosport coverage and they had former GB coach Simon Jones in the studio, who said the hct test was grossly unfair and needs to be abolished :roll: Usual spiel about Hayles being the cleanest athlete he knows, etc etc.
Would anyone be calling for the test to be scrapped if it was one of the Chinese athletes instead of a Brit? Somehow I think not.
PS the scratch race was exciting :P0 -
A Chinese commentator might. That's the way it goes.Le Blaireau (1)0
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With good reason. Hayles hadn't tested positive for a doping offence - he'd reported a haematocrit level 0.3% over the 'legal' limit of 50% after a routine blood test.
Haematocrit is the level of red blood cells, as a percentage of the blood - more red cells result in more oxygenated blood reaching the muscles, hence better performance.
In men, the normal haematocrit range is 40-54%, and in women it is 37-47%.
The limit set by UCI is – officially – a safety limit, as red blood cell levels above 50% can lead to blood clotting and heart attacks.
The stated aim is to protect the riders, though cynics argue that is doublespeak for evidence of doping.
Hayles, known to have naturally high haematocrit levels, is devastated yet absolutely certain further tests during his two-week suspension will clear his name.
From http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A33882960? ... rt=cycling
I'd be intrigued to see the sources for this article since there's some interesting points (if they're correct (which I doubt))0 -
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i don't know Rob Hayles personally, but i used cycle down at the track at the mountbatten center Portsmouth.
his dad used to coach us, Rob would train down there as well.
his dad is so passionate about cycling in it's purest form.
i really can't believe for one moment that Rob has done any thing wrong.
He has his dad's passion for cycling, and used to be so very proud to ride for his country, and to do anything to mess that up would be the last thing on his mind.
i got the impression from the few times we spoke, and listening to his dad speak, that it has never been about the money, it's purely a deep passion to ride bikes to the best of his ability, something he has or had in bucket loads.
i really hope for his sake that this is proved to be a mistake.
i believe it would really hurt him to think that people would see as a cheat, something i believe is not true in any way.0 -
I would start up a campaign called letvickiride :Pvbc wrote:What would happen to the rest of the team if ASO were running the event?0 -
Kléber wrote:If not, then he's done for and his methods will cast a cloud of suspicion over the rest of the GB team, despite their protestations.
Agreed. Mind you, I've never understood why people blindly accept BC's "we're so clean you could eat your dinner off us" If they were a pro road team and did as well as they do not a soul would believe them.
Once again, CFA says it better than meFckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Isn't there a case for all athlete's historical pathology to be made more available, so that you can see the changes in key levels? From reading the Pantani biog, my understanding was that EPO was virtually impossible to detect (unless an athlete made the mistake of taking within a few days of a test) and it was relatively easy to bring an athlete's levels below the 'threshold' at fairly short notice (by taking on fluids in one form or another). However, the historical pathology of the athlete (their 'base' levels, changes during training/rest, etc) built a scientific case for the use (or not) of substances such as EPO (in it's various forms).
I appreciate that there are 'privacy' issues to debate, but surely that pathology must be available in case like this.
Cheers.http://www.mombee.com ... more than just bikes.
Cannondale CAADX Disc0 -
Mombee, that's one of the arguments behind the introduction of a "rider passport", which is basically a file with all the riders haematological and endocrinal values recorded in it, with tests taking place at regular intervals.
Of course, a cynical rider could always push up their levels so they always look high, and so no weird variations appear but the riders in France, from juniors to pros, have had this scheme in place for a decade now and it takes time to work.0 -
After listening to Wiggins bleating on for what seemed like a lifetime after the last tour, how the cheats were ruining the sport etc, it's laughable to see him now come out in support of Hayles. If this had been a rider from another team we'd be subjected to another full page bleating from him in the comic.
Total hypocritPlanet X N2A
Trek Cobia 29er0 -
It could be that Wiggins knows Hayles well and believes he is innocent, and supports his friends.
Slamming Rasmussen, with his economy-with-the-truth tales of Mexican travel, or Vinokourov's ever-changing excuses, is something else.
I'm not sure about Hayles, so I'll wait. But it was obvious what Vinokourov has been up to...0 -
colint wrote:After listening to Wiggins bleating on for what seemed like a lifetime after the last tour, how the cheats were ruining the sport etc, it's laughable to see him now come out in support of Hayles. If this had been a rider from another team we'd be subjected to another full page bleating from him in the comic.
Total hypocrit
A high haemocrit could be natural, but is having someone elses blood in you natural or traces of EPO in blood that natural?0 -
Are you saying that's what he has?Le Blaireau (1)0
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redddraggon wrote:
A high haemocrit could be natural, but is having someone elses blood in you natural or traces of EPO in blood that natural?
Not having any EPO in your blood is unnatural.
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:redddraggon wrote:
A high haemocrit could be natural, but is having someone elses blood in you natural or traces of EPO in blood that natural?
Not having any EPO in your blood is unnatural.
You know what I meant.0 -
I love the denial. If they guy was called Halyssen or Hayleski, you would have pulled him apart like vultures picking a corpse. But because he's a plucky Brit, he's ok.
I don't want to call either side as we don't know the facts. It's just the reaction that's interesting.0 -
And if it was Hayleski, Joe Publikski would be defending him. We've done all this already, yada yada yada.Le Blaireau (1)0
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redddraggon wrote:colint wrote:After listening to Wiggins bleating on for what seemed like a lifetime after the last tour, how the cheats were ruining the sport etc, it's laughable to see him now come out in support of Hayles. If this had been a rider from another team we'd be subjected to another full page bleating from him in the comic.
Total hypocrit
A high haemocrit could be natural, but is having someone elses blood in you natural or traces of EPO in blood that natural?
Highest heemocrit level he's ever recorded ? and on the eve of a world championship ? Sure it's natural.
I suppose I'm jumping to conclusions, but thats exactly what happens when it's riders from other countries / teams etc. You can't whine on (and on and on) about doping like Wiggins does and then expect to be able to use the "but he's a really nice bloke" defence whe it's one of your team matesPlanet X N2A
Trek Cobia 29er0 -
colint wrote:redddraggon wrote:colint wrote:After listening to Wiggins bleating on for what seemed like a lifetime after the last tour, how the cheats were ruining the sport etc, it's laughable to see him now come out in support of Hayles. If this had been a rider from another team we'd be subjected to another full page bleating from him in the comic.
Total hypocrit
A high haemocrit could be natural, but is having someone elses blood in you natural or traces of EPO in blood that natural?
Highest heemocrit level he's ever recorded ? and on the eve of a world championship ? Sure it's natural.
I suppose I'm jumping to conclusions, but thats exactly what happens when it's riders from other countries / teams etc. You can't whine on (and on and on) about doping like Wiggins does and then expect to be able to use the "but he's a really nice bloke" defence whe it's one of your team mates
Why the fxxk do you guys keep trying to pre judge people?
Rob hayles did not fail a dope test, had raised HCT level which apparently he has had before.
I do not know if he doped the same as you don't. They will do further "more effective" tests to clarify so why not just be patient and await the results instead of slating wiggins and presuming Hales doped?
Lets be honest, this and the Olympics would be Rob;s last chance in championships so he would be pretty stupid to dope now and just before championships, we shall see soon.0 -
colint wrote:redddraggon wrote:colint wrote:After listening to Wiggins bleating on for what seemed like a lifetime after the last tour, how the cheats were ruining the sport etc, it's laughable to see him now come out in support of Hayles. If this had been a rider from another team we'd be subjected to another full page bleating from him in the comic.
Total hypocrit
A high haemocrit could be natural, but is having someone elses blood in you natural or traces of EPO in blood that natural?
Highest heemocrit level he's ever recorded ? and on the eve of a world championship ? Sure it's natural.
I suppose I'm jumping to conclusions, but thats exactly what happens when it's riders from other countries / teams etc. You can't whine on (and on and on) about doping like Wiggins does and then expect to be able to use the "but he's a really nice bloke" defence whe it's one of your team mates
Why the fxxk do you guys keep trying to pre judge people?
Rob hayles did not fail a dope test, had raised HCT level which apparently he has had before.
I do not know if he doped the same as you don't. They will do further "more effective" tests to clarify so why not just be patient and await the results instead of slating wiggins and presuming Hales doped?
Lets be honest, this and the Olympics would be Rob;s last chance in championships so he would be pretty stupid to dope now and just before championships, we shall see soon.0 -
I'm not pre judging him, I'm judging on the result of the test. The fact that he's in the twilight of his career makes doping more likely, not less IMHO.
I hope he is innocent, but based on his haemo level I don't see how he can be, doesn't live or train at altitude, never recorded over 50 before, twilight of career, major championships were a lots expected ??
Could all be a coincidence, but I doubt it.Planet X N2A
Trek Cobia 29er0
