Cyclists and bus drivers

applebiker

A letter in today's Daily Telegraph


Sir - As a bus driver in one of Britain's busiest cities, I have often wondered why seemingly intelligent-looking cyclists insist on displaying a complete disregard for the Highway Code, and therefore put theirs and others' safety at risk.

I had assumed it was just arrogance, but now it seems that they are more likely to be a generation of young Conservatives, merely following their leader.
Lovat Timbrell, Brighton, East Sussex

BentMikey

With 1 in 5 bus drivers going through a red light in London according to an RAC study that only measured from 3 seconds *AFTER* the light turned red? Ahahahahhaahhahaha.

In fairness, most bus drivers are pretty tolerant and careful of some of the very irresponsible cyclists I see around them.

redvee

Going off topic slightly the FirstBus timetable for Bristol has been nominated for a Man Booker prize for literature as a work of fiction :roll:

Gavin Gilbert

'sfunny cos in West London the bus companies only seem to employ Somalis who drive whilst ****ed out of their minds on khatt.

always_tyred

I'd like to offer some publicity to First Group busses also.

In the autumn in Glasgow I had two bus drivers deliverately use their vehicles as a weapon. One successfully hit me (brushed my shoulder with his wing mirror). After doing the hammering on the side of the vehicle thing to get his to move away before I fell off against the kerb, he stopped, opened the passenger door and told me why he'd done it, in lovely local venacular. Essentially, as you can probably imagine, it wa along the lines of "because you are there" - I'd pulled to the front of a queue of traffic, waited for 30 seconds and then cycled off against the kerb when the lights changed. How awful.

As it happens, for driver safety, the cab is fitted with CCTV. I have a nice letter of apology from First Group.

The other guy just plain got irritated that cyclists travel faster than busses down hills in city centres. When he finally got pissed off that I was setting off and arriving at lights before him, waiting at the lights and then setting off along the kerb when the lights turned green, he tried, successfully to steer his bus across a lane (I should say that it was a one way street in Glasgow's grid system) into my lane, across me, in order to trap me by preventing me from overtaking the line of parked cars ahead.

He was also able to flip me the bird as he did it, which I was quite impressed with.

Indicators are optional equipment here in Scotland. Recently in Edinburgh I was passed by a bus, which stopped, passed by the same bus, who stopped, passed by the same bus which stopped and finally almost passed by the same bus which stopped anyway at about 30 degrees to the kerb. As I overtook him, having jabbed on the brakes, for the 4th time in about 500 yards, he pulled back out (no fare I guess) without indicating and pushed me into oncoming traffic before my "WTF?" shouts persuaded him to let me pass the final 6 feet of his vehicle and assme a normal road position.

I have a nice apology letter from his employers, First Group.

LaurenceGough

Bus drivers are ****ing idiots!

prj45

Technex wrote:

Bus drivers are ****ing idiots!

What, all of them?

ddraver

prj45 wrote:

Technex wrote:

Bus drivers are ****ing idiots!

What, all of them?

only oto from the simpsons is the excepion

AndyGates

They're underpaid and undertrained - that's commercial pressure for you. No wonder they're not very good. But it's daft to say they're all villains, just as it's daft for me to get tarred with your red-light-jumping brush.

Alibran

Technex wrote:

Bus drivers are ****ing idiots!

Thanks. It's nice to know exactly what you think of me. I'm starting to feel quite unwelcome on this forum.

I selected "yes" in answer to the poll because the majority are most of the time. (Occasional speeding is probably the exception to that, but most drivers are guilty of speeding at one time or another.)

While I certainly don't condone what those drivers did to Always Tyred, from my experience as a cyclist and bus driver, they seem to be the exception, not the rule. And as for timetables being a work of fiction, of course they are, but that's hardly the fault of the drivers. We do our best to stick to the timetables, but the routes are usually timed when there's hardly any traffic on the roads, which makes it pretty much impossible.

A few facts about driver hours that you probably don't know:

The maximum number of hours a driver is allowed to drive on a local service without a break is 5.5 (5 and a half)

The minimum break at the end of that time is 30 minutes, then it's legal to drive another 5.5 hours.

The minimum overnight rest period is 8.5 hours (which, by the time you've got home, spent some time to unwind, maybe had something to eat or a shower, then got up the next morning and had breakfast, etc, means you're down to about 5-6 hours sleep at best).

Add all this up, and you have drivers who are in danger of falling asleep at the wheel. I've had to stop and get out to have a walk around before because I can feel my eyes trying to close, and I'm getting to the point where I'm so tired I stop caring.

I believe the government recommends that if you're planning a long journey, you should get a good night's sleep the night before, and take breaks every 2 hours. That obviously doesn't apply to professional drivers.

Oh, and where I work, we get paid less than £7.30 an hour. My basic is around £220 a week, after tax. Not enough to live on, as you can probably imagine, but where I live it's a "good wage".

It irritates me sometimes the "holier than thou" attitude some cyclists take. Yes, I've come across some idiot bus drivers. But I've come across a lot more idiot cyclists. The difference is just in the size of the vehicle.

NWLondoner

Bus drivers are like all other road users. Some are curteous and will give plenty of room. others are absolute w@nkers.

Some drive right up your ass and almost force you to let them pass. The constant stopping and over taking of the same bus can be a right pain.

I am always worried that they will suddenly pull away from a bus stop when i am over taking them.

Now don't get us started on Bendy Bus drivers

abbots_mike

must agree with the comment abot west london vbus drivers, i have met a few decent ones, but where I live and ride (around uxbridge, hillingdon) many bus drivers are absolutely terrible. no indicators, pull out as i am alongside them, delibarately block me into kerbs etc. on the flipside, there are some very good ones who are properly courteous. i alwyas thank them because that way they might be nice again!

mrchrispy

no worst no better than most of the twunts on the road, it just they are bigger and more of the threat to me. got a complaint in with both First and Stagecoach at the moment....its either complain or drag them out the bus and ram it up their fat ar5e.

richardast

I haven't voted because a simple yes or no doesn't really sum it up.

From my experience as a cyclist in London and an occasional bus passenger, the percentage of bad bus drivers is probably far lower than the percentage of bad cyclists.
They are generally far better than the average driver.

The only exceptions I have seen are the result of the impatience that all road users occasionally suffer. That impatience is usually brought about by weight of traffic combined with somebody else's bad driving. Doesn't excuse the lapses, but their screw-ups are generally compounded by other people's (or our) lack of courtesy.

If you know the guy is trying to drive smoothly, cover his mirrors, check on his passengers and anticipate the movement of all the traffic around a 60 foot vehicle it's no great drama if you have to give him a bit more space and maybe wait to let him out occasionally (Highway Code).

What's the alternative? All those 60 passengers driving a car each.

Kafka\'s Doll

There are bad apples, obviously, just as there are some bus drivers who are especially courteous. But my guess would be that most examples of cycle-bus conflict here in London are the product of inappropriate vehicles rather than inappropriate driving. That is, buses that are 18 metres long are an absolute bloody nightmare. I don't have too much of a problem with Ken, but the bendy buses are a massive mistake.

There are forumites, I'm sure, who never take a single risk on the road. But for those of us who do occasionally filter through traffic, the potential for any move being catastrophic is increased dramatically with something that irresistable.

Needles to say, I'm not talking about overtaking one on the inside -- I don't have a death wish -- but once a bendy bus driver has made a decision (to pull out, to brake sharply, whatever), s/he seems powerless to change it.

Totalnewbie

They're ok most of the time, I reckon. The ones on South Lambeth road are generally sensible and will follow a cyclist slowly until the next bus stop instead of trying to overtake them when there's not enough time. I'll always let a bus go if he's indicating, why try and tangle with them.

I feel sorry for the bus drivers who have a cyclist squeezing down the inside of the bus with an inch to spare, I'd hate that if I was a bus driver controlling such an unwieldy vehicle. I don't go in for that myself, and wait if I can't overtake on the outside.

Sea_Green_Incorruptible

Like most people living in Bristol, I loathe the First bus company with all my heart. However, I have to say that this is a consequence of occasionally traveling on their buses, negotiating their fictional 'timetables' and paying their comically inflated fares rather than meeting them on the roads as a cyclist.

In the main, I actually find the drivers to be pretty courteous and sensible on the roads (maybe because they tend to be gridlocked and stationary most of the time). And as others have noted, certainly a lot better than most car drivers.

Now if the poll was 'Are Mercedes M-Class drivers competent/considerate/courteous etc' it would be a different story. Those b*st*rds are the bane of my life...

tardington

Mostly they're okay here in Edinburgh - except the man who drives the 11 down Lothian Road at 5 past ten every night. He is MENTAL.

secretsam

Generally fine, given the size of vehicle they drive, and often courteous. But at least in London, also prone to the odd RLJ, or rather a potentially awful amber-gambler approach - their fave place seems to be where I cross the Tottenham Court Road...

secretsam

Sea_Green_Incorruptible wrote:

Like most people living in Bristol, I loathe the First bus company with all my heart. However, I have to say that this is a consequence of occasionally traveling on their buses, negotiating their fictional 'timetables' and paying their comically inflated fares rather than meeting them on the roads as a cyclist.

In the main, I actually find the drivers to be pretty courteous and sensible on the roads (maybe because they tend to be gridlocked and stationary most of the time). And as others have noted, certainly a lot better than most car drivers.

Now if the poll was 'Are Mercedes M-Class drivers competent/considerate/courteous etc' it would be a different story. Those b*st*rds are the bane of my life...

Bristol buses used to be OK until F@rts took them over. But they've always been hideously expensive, ever since I was a kid - moving to Brum was a real shock, 45p anywhere in the West Midlands...whether it was 2 stops away or 200 (mind you, that was 1990, could be more now )

I see the comment on M-classes and raise you BMW X5s

karl j

Dunno about London but Norwich bus drivers are a pretty lawless bunch at times. Ii've had 3 particularly scary near misses (all on Castle Meadow so i don't know but maybe there's a design fault there), but the general attitude seems to be " this is a bus so its up to you to get out of my way"

As for red lights, . uh, what are they for ?

But there you go. And of course these were all interspersed (or something with a similar spelling) with many bus drivers whose actions go totally un-noticed

Cambridge bus drivers always seem ok to me

abbots_mike

If we are moving onto cars I will say german "Prestige" brands. Specifically BMW and Mercedes drivers

prj45

Kafka\'s Doll wrote:

That is, buses that are 18 metres long are an absolute bloody nightmare. I don't have too much of a problem with Ken, but the bendy buses are a massive mistake.

Would you rather have on bendy on the road or up to three double deckers (capacity is about the same)?

Bendies are also well driven, many very well driven.

And i for one don't miss the days of dodging pedestrains who lauch themselves off the back of routemasters.

BentMikey

I'm fine with bendy buses, nearly all buses and bus drivers that is. Just wish they wouldn't jump so many red lights, though that does go for cyclists and drivers too.