red lights and David Cameron

StJon

Jumping red lights in the headlines of the news due to tory leader in law breaking scandal. Turns out a "newspaper" followed him on his commute to work and filmed him flaunting the highway code. The whole episode was trivialized on GMTV but thankfully didn't go down the route of all cyclist are selfish law breaking idiots.

prj45

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories ... -20357854/

The first the red light he "jumps" is a Puffin crossing on a designated cycle route, I'm pretty sure its not illegal to ride across one when the road is clear when the signal is showing red.

It's probably not illegal to cut behind the bollard on The Mall, the sign is blue so is information only, not an order (note I see cars do this all the time there).

Its certianly not illegal to cross the centre line on the road (unless you impede the progress of oncoming traffic dangerously, but that's a difference offence).

Yeah he breaks the law when he breaks the white stop line on the light outside parliament, but he doesn't actually jump the light.

He's very stupid for riding up a one way street, if I saw him doing that when I was coming down the other way I'd have a word.

prj45

(I'm also surprsied his security tail didn't take out the guy that was obviously following him)

Sea_Green_Incorruptible

Whatever you do, don't listen to the 5Live coverage if you want your blood pressure to remain low. Full of texts from cretinous members of the public along the lines of 'typical holier than thou cyclist numpties' etc etc ad nauseum....

Chap from Cycling Plus on there being calm and sensible but there's not much to be done/said against the torrent of ignorance and predudice that is a mid-morning 5Live text/phone in...

dirk_van_gently

5 Live wouldn't have any output if it weren't for the cretins :?

prj45

Edit, that crossing is actually a Pegasus Crossing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_crossing

Is it illegal to walk, cycle or, er, horse across when the red light is showing?

Random Vince

on the mall photo it looks like he's turning right at a junction, not going up the road the bollard is for (dont know the area)

however it is illegal to go the wrong side of a traffic island even if the route is blocked.

the last one, is the light to the left for david's route? it is green for straight on and i'd guess red if you're turning right (again, i don't know the area)

Cunobelin

VEry contrived and poor reporting.....

I loved

PARLIAMENT SQUARE SW1, CITY OF WESTMISTER
LAW HE'S BROKEN - He is in clear breach of the Road Safety Act 1988 which states all road users must comply with the indication given by the road signal.
VERDICT - Andy Shrimpton of Stop at Red campaign: Cameron is not only engaging in risky road behaviour, but reinforcing a stereotype of cyclists as irresponsible.

NO - you numpty - if you look at the lights in the picture you will see he is going ahead and he light (on the left) is allowing this. He is behaving perfectly correctly - You are looking at the wrong lights!

Poor driving as well as poor reporting !

andrewc3142

All the places featured are places I cycle regularly and I can't see anything to be concerned about. At Parliament Square I would argue that's exactly what you should do to keep from being splatted.

Quite bizarre coverage if you ask me. Good on Cameron for cycling in (ahh! he's a Tory, I must go wash my mouth with soap and water for saying that). Pity he felt he had to issue such a grovelling apology for doing nothing wrong in order to appease Disgusted of Tonbridge Wells and the various Crusties in the Shires.

nwallace

Looking at that picture,

I see a green light pointing straight on, a red light for going right and a big blue sign telling you to turn right, can't read the except clause that is under it.

However, that traffic signal for straight on looks like it may be for another carriageway as it is the other side of a dividing barrier. Which looks like has a road the other side.

Note the road position of the cyclist in front.

andyfromletchworth

the best thing of all is that the mirror has had to resort to this. The most positive sign yet that this disgusting filthy lying govt. is on it way out. Hooray!

editor 'what should we go with today'
various journos ' iraq....darfur......tibet.......hospital infections...............econimic crisis.........ongoing massive corruption in brussels ????'
Editor 'Nah waht about that tory scum going thru a red light!'
Journos ' Jesus...........any chance of doing more on heather mills instead??'

Priceless.

andy

plusgourmande

Cunobelin wrote:

VEry contrived and poor reporting.....

I loved

PARLIAMENT SQUARE SW1, CITY OF WESTMISTER
LAW HE'S BROKEN - He is in clear breach of the Road Safety Act 1988 which states all road users must comply with the indication given by the road signal.
VERDICT - Andy Shrimpton of Stop at Red campaign: Cameron is not only engaging in risky road behaviour, but reinforcing a stereotype of cyclists as irresponsible.

NO - you numpty - if you look at the lights in the picture you will see he is going ahead and he light (on the left) is allowing this. He is behaving perfectly correctly - You are looking at the wrong lights!

Poor driving as well as poor reporting !

the green traffic light is on the other side of the road, meant for those going straight over towards westminster bridge.

the red one is for all traffic going right around parliament sq.

Cunobelin

Honest mistake then?

dav1

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7308400.stm

can't believe the CTC are supporting him on this, he is giving cyclist a bad name by breaking the rules!

PHcp

prj45 wrote:

Edit, that crossing is actually a Pegasus Crossing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_crossing

Is it illegal to walk, cycle or, er, horse across when the red light is showing?

It's a Toucan crossing and the lights are advisory, as the caption of the photo in the Mirror makes clear.
For details of the different crossing and the rules for cyclists using them look here;
http://www.camcycle.org.uk/newsletters/ ... cle12.html

prj45

Dav1 wrote:

can't believe the CTC are supporting him on this, he is giving cyclist a bad name by breaking the rules!

It shows what an ass cycling regulation [and] traffic management is in this country at the moment... we campaign in CTC for things like opening up one-way streets, which are allowed all over Europe," said director Kevin Mayne.

What an arse, there are one way streets in london that allow cyclist to go contra flow, but not that one, what Cameron did there was very silly and he should be pillored for it. not supported.

I'm still not buying he broke the law at Hyde Park Corner though, and I've no problem with cyclist breaking the law by crossing the white line as long as they don't continue to go through the red light, but riding the wrong way down a one way street is a bit much.

prj45

Even the Mirror concedes he wasn't actually breaking the law on this one, stating that the red light he is crossing against is only advisory: -



My stars, all of the media have got that one totally and utterly wrong.

always_tyred

Damn, and I thought everything printed in the Mirror was accurate.

The only problem with 5Live is that they allow general members of the public to call in. Bad idea.

I was listening whilst cycling to work this morning, and the parliamentary cycling committee leader (not sure if that's what the group of MP's are called, but oyu get the jist) was surprisingly balanced and spoke a deal of sense. She said that (a) all drivers, cyclists and pedestrians do things they shouldn't from time to time, so lets be balanced (b) Boris Johnston beats her home so it may be worth secretly filming his commute.

prj45

Always Tyred wrote:

Boris Johnston beats her home so it may be worth secretly filming his commute.

It's well known he's an RLJer, I've seen him do it myself, which is strange for somebody who today stated that zero tolerance should be applied to cyclists.

always_tyred

prj45 wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

Boris Johnston beats her home so it may be worth secretly filming his commute.

It's well known he's an RLJer, I've seen him do it myself, which is strange for somebody who today stated that zero tolerance should be applied to cyclists.

I'm not sure he would deliberately run a red light, its just that he keeps forgetting where he is and what he is doing.

nwallace

Er is that Crossing a Toucan?

The Red Man may be showing but what is the Red Cyclist doing?

I can't see the phase for cyclists on it.

From another thread

And according to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002, an
illuminated red signal on a Toucan crossing "shall indicate the period during which, in the interests of safety, pedestrians and pedal cyclists should not use the crossing".

abbots_mike

The funny thing is no-one seems to care about the other cyclists seen doing the exact same thing...or about the camera bike that was following him the whole way.
I'm not going to preach as I do things that i legally shouldn't on a bike but I'm quite fond of my bodyparts as they are now. Just seems like news for the sake of news really...

prj45

nwallace wrote:

Er is that Crossing a Toucan?

No it's not actually. There's a ped xing for peds only, and then to the right of it there is a shared horse/cyclist crossing (with little horse and little cycle lights).

It appears mr Cameron has used the ped xing instead of the cycle/horse xing.

So, it's not illegal to ride across when the little pushbike light is showing red, but he has strayed into the ped xing, and it's not legal to ride a cycle on a ped xing.

So the media have still got it wrong.

tuxpoo

Maybe they should also follow some of the car driver MPs in to work to see how many laws they break?

Tux

Shoaib

Dav1 wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7308400.stm

can't believe the CTC are supporting him on this, he is giving cyclist a bad name by breaking the rules!

I'm glad the CTC are supporting him, as an organisation that lobies for the rights of all cyclists, it has a duty to stay in the good books of anyone who might one day pass legislation that affects us.

jezwold

The people who are giving cycling a bad name are not people like Cameron but the people who seem to think that the laws of the road are somehow discretionary for cyclists, and are always the first to cry when they get run over. Any motorist reading some of the comments on here is going to think that cyclists are fair game because they publicly admit to breaking the law when riding.
The interesting thing is that the conservatives are on record as saying they want to see the introduction of red light cameras which would read the number plate and take an evidential overview of any vehicle which crosses a red light, which means more work for me in having to design the things but I wonder how long it will be before they call for the introduction of number plates or similar for cycles, they wouldn't have to be big we can quite happily read the license plates of scooters which whizz round Rome and they are about the size of postage stamps.

richardast

Again, it's the media "creating" a story in an attempt to shape public opinion rather than reporting news in a way that reflects it.

Boring.

abbots_mike

livingstone tried to introduce plates on pushbikes a while back. it was decided it would never work due to the number of bikes on the roads and the fact there is no database of how many are sold or to who. i mean, think about the number of people that buy frames and parts seperately.

PHcp

prj45 wrote:

So, it's not illegal to ride across when the little pushbike light is showing red, but he has strayed into the ped xing, and it's not legal to ride a cycle on a ped xing.

It is confusing :?
If it has a red cycle light it would be illegal to cross when on red, you only find these on dedicated cycle crossings.
If it's a pedestrian crossing it would be illegal to cycle across it.
If it is mixed use, it's a Toucan (that's why it's called a Two-can) it won't have a cycle red light and the lights it does have are advisory.
Toucan crossings should have a green cycle light, many don't. If a shared cycle path crosses a road with no end markings it's safe to assume that the crossing is a Toucan, even if there's only a green/red man. What adds to the confusion is when several crossings are next to each other with no obvious distintion between them.