NOT Campag v Shimano

Mark Alexander

I'm trying to work out which Campag groupset is the equivalent of the offering from Shimano . I'm not trying to stir up that ag-old battle of wills but I have full Xenon '"04 on my road bike and Dura-Ace/Ultgra on my race bike. I'm just trying to draw paralells.

eg. Dura-Ace = Record? Ultgra = ? etc

System_1

It's unfair to compare Dura Ace to Record. They are both the top of their respective range but Record is miles more expensive.

I'd say it went something like this (I'm sure others will disagree):

Record = Nothing
Chorus = Dura Ace
Centaur = Ultegra
Veloce = Tiagra
Mirage and Xenon = Sora

4candles

System wrote:

It's unfair to compare Dura Ace to Record. They are both the top of their respective range but Record is miles more expensive.

I'd say it went something like this (I'm sure others will disagree):

Record = Nothing
Chorus = Dura Ace
Centaur = Ultegra
Veloce = Tiagra
Mirage and Xenon = Sora

Record is more expencive....? not if you get the Dura Ace Carbon chainset !!!
£600 or more and i've got one of the prototypes so there...!!

Slow Downcp

System wrote:

It's unfair to compare Dura Ace to Record. They are both the top of their respective range but Record is miles more expensive.

I'd say it went something like this (I'm sure others will disagree):

Record = Nothing
Chorus = Dura Ace
Centaur = Ultegra
Veloce = Tiagra
Mirage and Xenon = Sora

I'd say as above except :
Veloce = 105
Mirage = Tiagra
Xenon = Sora

Smokin Joe

I'd say -

Record
Chorus - Dura Ace
Centaur - Ultegra
Veloce - 105
Mirage
Xenon - Tiagra
Sora

meagain

"It's unfair to compare Dura Ace to Record. They are both the top of their respective range but Record is miles more expensive. "

Don't follow the logic here. Might be equally as good (I don't know, having only ever ridden DA), with extra price simply being a reflection of Campag taking the p^$* with profit margins even more than Shimanao do! At a guess, gross margins on S stuff maybe 500% twixt factory gate and a retail buyer?

giant_man

System wrote:

It's unfair to compare Dura Ace to Record. They are both the top of their respective range but Record is miles more expensive.

I'd say it went something like this (I'm sure others will disagree):

Record = Nothing
Chorus = Dura Ace
Centaur = Ultegra
Veloce = Tiagra
Mirage and Xenon = Sora

yes of course Record is dearer, cos it's better!!!!!!!!!!!! (have I started something here or what?) lol

pliptrot

I have Record & Dura Ace, both from 5 years ago. Now many will dismiss my comments as being based on old technology, but I am sure I am not alone in imagining that good equipment should last. Frankly, I still believe that a good pair of hubs will see out many pairs of rims, which is evidently not the view of many, given the popularity of factory wheels. And the conduct of the respective companies in the past is good indication of their intentions today.

All I can offer is that the Dura Ace stuff is better finished (in those areas where attention to detail is required, such as on the back of the cranks) and has been at least as durable as Record. Important features such as ball bearings in the rear mech. jockey wheels and the proper design of the freehub are to be found with DA. Although I was a Campag. believer, my experience - and the current offerings from Vicenza - have led me to believe that Campag. have surrendered to the marketing department.

If your bike is a tool, get DA. If it's an ornament, Record undoubtedly has the edge. It has a nice logo, after all.

aracer

I think the point isn't so much that Record is better than DA, but that Chorus is just as good (and realistically there's little functional difference between Chorus and Record).

meagain

"yes of course Record is dearer, cos it's better!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Fortunately for the owners of Campag, there are far too many who believe vice versa!

acorn_user

This is the commonly accepted ecumenical position.
Record
Chorus - Dura Ace
Centaur - Ultegra
Veloce - 105
Mirage - Tiagra
Xenon - Sora

This makes most sense from a price and weight perspective. Centaur and Ultegra are pretty much the sweet spot of both lines. Sram Rival is alongside Ultegra, and Force alongside Dura Ace. Red is presumably up in the $$ land with Record.

Try searching Bikeforums for this too. It comes up a lot, and usually causes a huge bust up.

Ken Night

Smokin Joe wrote:

I'd say -

Record
Chorus - Dura Ace
Centaur - Ultegra
Veloce - 105
Mirage
Xenon - Tiagra
Sora

My LBS suggested this comparison to me four or five years ago

andy_wrx

How about ?

Record
Chorus - Dura Ace
Centaur - Ultegra
Veloce - 105
Mirage
Tiagra
Xenon
Sora

Mark Alexander

in the same vein.
As I said originally, I have Campag Xennon on the training bike (Monoc) and Ultegra/Dura Ace on my Felt.

I think that I would benefit from the two bikes having the same ratios for consistency.
Campag is 30-42-52 and Ultegra is 39-53.
And finally, the question is...

Is it worth or possible to, change the chainset to 39-53 ish. the Monoc is running 9 speed. 12-26.

I have used the 30 twice in 4 years!! it's a waste.

JWSurrey

One other thing to factor in to the equation - Japanese Yen has weakened year on year, against sterling. In fact, taking the July high, it's dropped by 20%!
This, of course, doesn't always follow through to the shop front - take petrol as an example.

John.T

Mark. You could change the 2 outer rings easily. Keep the 30 on or just take it off as you like. If you take it off you could use a shorter BB to give a smaller Q angle similar to your Felt.

Tom Butcher

pliptrot wrote:

If your bike is a tool, get DA. If it's an ornament, Record undoubtedly has the edge. It has a nice logo, after all.

My experience was the opposite -I found Campag to be more durable - either works fine when new and newly set up but I have found Campag to last better and need less fettling than the DuraAce I used to have.

blooocow

Like has been said already though, the quality coming out for Campag is not impressive at the mo.
Remember that first forum ride we went on Tom - how many years ago? I was riding Veloce hubs built on Mavic rims with a Veloce 9s group. Those hubs are still going with very little maintenance undertaken. The Vento's I got 18 months back have just had their second set of bearings in them in the rear. And the front hub flange snapped after 9 months. I got a replacement last September and the hub is already orange with rust.

And I changed the Veloce 9s to 10 s last November. Already the rear mech is seizing and sticking. The old 9s is still running without problem. And I can't believe they got rid of the old multi-shifting on the left-hand lever on Veloce 10s. Now it's impossible to trim and it clunks when you shift. It's nice to have the race bike back out with old, non-QS but lovely and smooth Chorus on it.

Tom Butcher

I haven't had a problem with the campag hubs I've been using for pretty much everything since last Spring - but I know you haven't been happy with those wheels - you like me had Shimano and swopped to Campag for similar reasons though - and it wasn't because we liked the logo.