4 cat racing: whats a normal power range?

bahzob

I did my second race of my life at Thruxton yesterday so have promoted myself from the beginners section to post here.

've got a powermeter. On my first race the week before (same place but better weather) I averaged a modest 235W (264W normalised) to do 24.5mph.

Yesterday I downloaded the results to my PC and was slightly surprised at the results. For the 52 minutes to average 22mph riding through the wind and wet I worked at 292W (309W normalised) and despite (or maybe because of) this lost touch in the final rush to the line.

I'm 71kg so not massive and 300W for an hour is pretty hard work for me. I guess others also race with powermeters and would be interested to know if this is typical of a 4 cat race and (out of interest/respect since I does not look as if I will ever be riding in them) what power averages are for 3/2/1/E riders are.

phil s

Don't know about 4th cat racing as I got out of the 4th cats as soon as I could, but looking at your numbers and the fact that you lost touch it leads me to suspect that you maybe raced hard but not smart, so probably over your threshold until the elastic snapped. Am I right? 4th cats have a fetish for riding as if magnetically drawn to each other, and riding hard on the front dragging everyone else around. Breakaways seem to be a rarity and bunch sprint carnage the norm.

bahzob

Analysis is pretty spot on in terms of how the race went. Breaks seemed to happen on a fairly regular basis without much rhyme or reason. I chased the first one and burned up a lot of energy and it was only after a few more happened I realised they were pretty much hopeless (only one or two riders in them) and they seemed to be reeled in without the main group trying too hard.

And I was surprised by the willingness of some to ride hard at the front for half a lap or so without looking for help. So much so I did some of it myself which I think was definitely a mistake.

cougie

Sounds like you are good enough to race - now you need to focus on your skills. never do more than you have to. Save your energy for when it can make a difference

Toks

bahzob wrote:

I did my second race of my life at Thruxton yesterday so have promoted myself from the beginners section to post here.

've got a powermeter. On my first race the week before (same place but better weather) I averaged a modest 235W (264W normalised) to do 24.5mph.

Yesterday I downloaded the results to my PC and was slightly surprised at the results. For the 52 minutes to average 22mph riding through the wind and wet I worked at 292W (309W normalised) and despite (or maybe because of) this lost touch in the final rush to the line.

I'm 71kg so not massive and 300W for an hour is pretty hard work for me. I guess others also race with powermeters and would be interested to know if this is typical of a 4 cat race and (out of interest/respect since I does not look as if I will ever be riding in them) what power averages are for 3/2/1/E riders are.

Mmm well there's two ways of looking at this.
1. Congratulations on such good threshold power as a 4th cat. 4.22w/kg is more like good 3rd cat /2nd cat threshold power. I'd say at 71kg typical 4th FT would be around 230-250watts ~3.23w/kg
2. As Phil mentioned it sounds like you're not racing smart. You need to be drafting more and riding in the wind less; riding on the drops more and on the hoods less; not pulling around the bunch the whole time etc.
Also whats your anaerobic power (30sec-2mins) like can you respond to jumps and attacks. Perhaps your short time speed needs training. Anyway don't despair. By the looks of it you've got a great engine and its early season it will soon start to come together practice from more racing. Thanks for sharing
Check out racing power profiles here http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/pow ... v4.xlswith

Bronzie

That link should be:

http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/pow ... ing_v4.xls

Hmmmmm...........270W FTP @ 73kg makes me a high 4 / low 3 - which is spot on! :oops:

Toks

Oops cheers Bronzie. The profiles are quite useful but obviously you'll have to take race tactics, terrain, sprint power, anerobic power in to consideration. Out of interest I know that someone who won and came 3rd in two recent 3rd cat road races has a mass of 71kg and has an FT of 300watt.

Toks

bahzob wrote:

I did my second race of my life at Thruxton yesterday so have promoted myself from the beginners section to post here.
.

Just checked out your blog. What on earths with the Ipod and the trance music? :shock: Dude get serious! you're in a Road Race, not at home on a turbo trainer. How can you stay alert to everything thats going on during the race :oops: Keep up the Blog though

Tom Butcher

Yes I'd lose the music - I don't think the commissaires would allow it if they knew anyway and certainly round here other riders would let you know they didn't approve if they were aware you were listening to music whilst racing.

Bronzie

Tom Butcher wrote:

other riders would let you know they didn't approve

Good way to psyche the opposition though.............."That bloke's got a radio link to his team manager!"

bahzob

Toks wrote:

bahzob wrote:

I did my second race of my life at Thruxton yesterday so have promoted myself from the beginners section to post here.
.

Just checked out your blog. What on earths with the Ipod and the trance music? :shock: Dude get serious! you're in a Road Race, not at home on a turbo trainer. How can you stay alert to everything thats going on during the race :oops: Keep up the Blog though

Like I say I am learning...I always listen to music when riding and find it makes me more rather than less alert. But took heed from comments and understand it may not be appreciated so did last/future races unplugged.

dennisn

For myself, and this is if I was still racing, I wouldn't obsess over all the numbers that
these power and heartrate meters spew out especially during a race. At races, watching
these devices instead of watching what's going on around you is a recipe for disaster.
Both to you and those around you. I'm talking crashes because you weren't paying attention to the race. Add to that the fact that if you're watching your meters you won't
be ready to react when a sprint at the front happens and you'll be dropped. These items
are helpful in training if you have the time and can figure out what it all means but during a race your job is, at best, to stay on or near the front to try to win or get a good placing
and if not that then either helping a teammate or working hard in the chase group to pull
back a break. Watching readouts in not in the race plan. It's just plain dangerous.

Dennis Noward

Haynes

riiiight....

Anyway, ive only raced at thruxton the once but my guess is as follows. Given the nature of the 4th cat race, that its not a team event etc, breakaways are going to be extremely difficult to pull off. For one reason theyre always visible therefore the bunch will always have the visual incentive to chase them down.

There arent any climbs, just a long drag up to the finish, and no really tight corners to break up the bunch. Its pretty exposed up there and imagine its always pretty windy. i thing its always gonna be down to a sprint, but would be interested to hear oitherwise.

I realised, when i got dropped up to finish, that all my efforts earlier to stay near the front of the group were wasted because it all happens in the last 1/2 a lap. I also realise that ascerting a good position, not getting forced on to the front or blocked and squeezed out the back is critical skill.

I think this post is emphasing more than ever that it isnt about the power but how and when you use it, i wish i knew.

Tom Butcher

Maybe we should have a thread on how to stay near the front of the bunch. Race skills - is it just about experience, attidude or are there any tips that people can share.

Toks

Haynes wrote:

riiiight....
I think this post is emphasing more than ever that it isnt about the power but how and when you use it, i wish i knew.

Indeed having good sustainable power isn'enough without race smarts. However, in general you won't be a big player in any race unless you decent sprint or threshold power

Haynes

thinking about this thread and my racing experiences, i realise i dont focus on the winning. I tend to get over excited, like going on the front or chasing down a break or just blasting from the back of the bunch to the front, thinking yeah i'm doing it.

Afterwards im buzzing beacuse ive worked really hard, and what i enjoy about racing is that i put in more effort than i would or could anywhen else. I just dont get that motivation from TTs. For brief sputs your thinking i just cant hold on anymore, but somehow just manage enought to avoid getting dropped etc.

Maybe racing should be more boring, just hold back and hold back, play the waiting game, in most races nothing really happens till the run up to the finish (unless theres a decent climb). Being that patient must be hard.

Mike Willcox

So this is what training with/by power does for you. I thought it was supposed to create certainty in a rider's mind about their capabilities. Obviously doesn't apply to racing. What's the point?

DaveyL

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........

Toks

Mike Willcox wrote:

So this is what training with/by power does for you. I thought it was supposed to create certainty in a rider's mind about their capabilities. Obviously doesn't apply to racing. What's the point?

Happy Easter Mike :roll:

Mike Willcox

DaveyL wrote:

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I must be dreaming, Must get on that wheel, Blimey this guy's good he must have an FTP of over 300 watts. Hey I'm now in the front. Oi you there get off my wheel I know you. Your FTP is 310 watts so I should be on your wheel. Get off!! Blast I'm knackered and everyone is going past, but what's this? I'm in a 1/2/3 race and they are all at least 2nd cats with an FTP of over 300 watts. Phew that's a relief. BRIIIIINNNNGGG bloody alarm must get up. Cor what a nightmare!!!