Light tourer

Richard_D

My other half is looking for a light tourer any suggestions?
Her road bike is a Trek Madone with Discovery liverage but this has no means of ataching paniers and she doesn't want to take it offroad. She has a Trek Hybrid which she is happy with off road but it is heavy.
She is after a light bike with drop bars and triple chainset that can take paniers,etc.
She is considering possibly the Tricross comp or maybe a custom build based on a Mercian frame.

Kafka\'s Doll

Look for audax bikes, light touring is what they do. I love my Condor Fratello but it's steel, so not the lightest.

alfablue

Sorry to be obtuse, but are you looking for a touring bike which is light, or a bike for light touring?

For the latter an audax bike is fine, I have one, but with more than about 12kg in the panniers the rear triangle flexes from the bottom bracket as I pedal and makes it feel unstable. I have a late 1990's Reynolds 531 framed Dawes Audax, and I love it, certainly the bike weight is fine for long day rides and it is very comfy. The new Dawes Audax (there are 2 models) may be worth a look.

If the former, a bit of extra bike weight is necessary, but is pretty negligable for fully loaded touring.

Other Audax bikes, Thorn have four bikes in the "fast touring" or Audax mould. Quite pricey though, or Hewitt probably can do a good one, or the Condor suggested above.

meagain

Given the builder and that it is 531C, this on th'bay "George Longstaff Audax bike" would, even allowing for a make over with TOP components, cost well less than half a Merc and be just as light. Probably not the right size, though!

Usual disclaimer - not mine etc.

geoff_ss

meagain wrote:

Given the builder and that it is 531C, this on th'bay "George Longstaff Audax bike" would, even allowing for a make over with TOP components, cost well less than half a Merc and be just as light. Probably not the right size, though!

Usual disclaimer - not mine etc.

For serious touring I've always used Mercian 531 frames and they've been excellent. If you're having it built consider having extra bottle bosses brazed on the front of the down tube - that's where I used to carry a Sig bottle full of meths for the Trangia stove.

OTOH as Meagain says George Longstaff was an excellent builder (and a lovely guy, too) and that bike would be good for light touring but I think 531c may not be the ideal tube set for (say) cycle camping or a lot of rough stuff.

Geoff

niblue

The Tricross (or another CX bike) would definitely be an option. I've just got a Tricross Sport for commuting and light touring and had a rack fitted to that.



The forks have rack mounts as well, plus the gearing (30-40-52 & 11-34) is low enough for light touring.

blorg

I was looking for something similar. I''ve just ordered yesterday a Van Nicholas Amazon frame that I'm planning on fitting the components from a crashed Trek 5000 (triple chainset.) Am hoping it will just be a brake change to cantis. Was also considering a Mercian King of Mercia which would have taken the calipers as-is.

You would not want to try touring on a Madone, never mind off road.

BTW I did the Camino de Santiago on drop bars with 700x35c tyres. This coped with some off-road sections but it was far from ideal. If specifically looking to "tour off road" I think I would go for flat bars and front suspension, e.g. a hardtail MTB. If I was planning a primarily road tour which might involve a percentage of off-road segments, the drops with the 700x35cs was fine.

I have seen Specialized Tricrosses with racks so that could be a good, speedy option.

pete.whelan

Kafka\'s Doll wrote:

Look for audax bikes, light touring is what they do. I love my Condor Fratello but it's steel, so not the lightest.

The Deda steel that Condor use still builds up into a nice light bike. OK not as light as high end carbon or aluminium, but still good, but strong.

Richard_D

Thanks for the responses. If nothing else it meant we asked the right questions when we went into the LBS. The touring we are thinking of is primarily in Western Europe and mainly on road but maybe some canal path, fire tracks, etc. Not the territory for a road bike but somewhere a cylcecross bike would thrive. She went for a tricross in the end

acorn_user

You know, the traditional British touring bike really is quite light. It's not like the US type (Trek 520 etc) which are slower but burlier. A Dawes Galaxy or Audax would be good choice. But I think going to a frame builder like Mercian would be the best thing to do since this kind of bike is their stock in trade. I would reject the Tricross because it is expensive for what it is (cheapish alloy frame with bog standard components).

PHcp

acorn_user wrote:

You know, the traditional British touring bike really is quite light. It's not like the US type (Trek 520 etc) which are slower but burlier.

What an odd comment, if anything the Trek is lighter, though that’s probably due to the road rather than MTB components.

Trek 520 11.49Kg
http://www.worldwideshoes.org/midwest/trek520.html

Hewitt Cheviot 12.62Kg
http://www.hewittbikefitting.co.uk/uplo ... iot-SE.pdf

I can’t find a Galaxy weight, though when I was looking for a tourer it was a little more than the Hewitt Cheviot.

alfablue

A Dawes Galaxy (2008) is 13.5kg, a Dawes Audax Supreme, 11.3kg

Personally, when touring I wouldn't get obsessive about the bike weight, the weight means in part that the bike is likely to be sturdy enough, I coul;d easily save 2kg on the load I carry by buying good kit and not taking unnecessary stuff.

For proper loaded touring I would get a touring bike rather than a "light tourer" or Audax.

aracer

acorn_user wrote:

But I think going to a frame builder like Mercian would be the best thing to do since this kind of bike is their stock in trade. I would reject the Tricross because it is expensive for what it is (cheapish alloy frame with bog standard components).

Yet you'd happily pay more for a custom steel bike with the same level of components which wouldn't necessarily ride any better?

There still seems to be a lot of hype about steel frames for touring bikes - though the main claim seems to be that you can get it repaired in any backwater in the 3rd world, and that's not something which is important or useful for most of us. IMO alu frames make for much better touring bikes (assuming you're not planning on breaking it in Outer Mongolia), since the increased stiffness helps a lot when loaded.

I've actually toured on a road race bike (using p-clips to mount the rack), and the only real issues were the lack of lower gears, and the lack of stiffness in the frame (old-fashioned 531c). Whilst it might not be ideal, a Madone with a triple chainset would solve both of those issues, and I could certainly envisage the idea of touring on one, though it wouldn't be my bike of choice for that.

alfablue

I don't think a hand built bike will genuinely offer value for money unless you are a difficult to fit size, you have unusual requirements, or you place a premium on the idea of a custom build. Thats not to say I wouldn't like one myself, but I think you could get an equally capable bike with the same level of componentry for £500 (or more) less.

Regarding steel for tourers, I do like the comfort that this material brings, though as many will say, frame design and build is more significant than frame material.

I think I would be very happy with a Dawes Galaxy Ultra for full on touring and day rides, and even audax events. (Actually I am hankeing after a Condor Heritage steel tourer, they will fit whatever components you want and prices start at about £1000, similar price to the Galaxy Ultra. They are also lighter than Galaxies).

Maybe a halfway house is to go to Hewitts who will spend a great deal of time to fit you to the correct ready made frame and you will get something in steel, and which is ideally suited to your needs and size, for a good bit less than a complete custom build.

niblue

As someone who's just bought a Tricross (for commuting and light touring) I'd have to disagree with the earlier poster who says he'd reject it.

I've not done much distance on it yet however I have ridden it off-road already and one thing that's very noticeable is how comfortable and compliant it is. The frame is very heavily worked (I assume to give the effect I've noticed) so while it it alloy it's a long way from giving the impression of being cheap. As for it having "standard components" I'm at a loss to figure out why that might be a problem, especially for touring.

aracer

alfablue wrote:

Regarding steel for tourers, I do like the comfort that this material brings, though as many will say, frame design and build is more significant than frame material.

Personally I'd say that tyre pressure is far more important, with the only aspect of frame design which makes any significant difference being geometry.

alfablue

aracer wrote:

alfablue wrote:

Regarding steel for tourers, I do like the comfort that this material brings, though as many will say, frame design and build is more significant than frame material.

Personally I'd say that tyre pressure is far more important, with the only aspect of frame design which makes any significant difference being geometry.

You may be right, but my 531c Audax bike is extremely comfy and compliant on the road with tyres at 110psi, so much more so than my Ti bike with larger volume, ower pressure tyres, and the various Alu bikes I have had. Truly magical geometry, or is the frame tubing offering something?

aracer

Placebo effect. Basic laws of physics suggest it can't be anything else (the theory I subscribe to is that you can feel the horizontal flex due to pedalling etc., and your brain makes the mental leap to assume that the flex is making the bike more comfortable).

alfablue

Well if you reckon its a placebo effect I'm going to have to do a blind trial then!

acorn_user

I did not mean to offend, I was trying to point out that Galaxy type bikes are plenty light enough for what the OP has in mind, and should be top candidates.

As for handbuilt steel, this is where I say "look at the price man!". Woodrup frames where only 300 pounds last time I checked. You could have one built up with lovely components for less than some of the Tricross suggestions.

I also did not mean to suggest that aluminium cannot be made into a comfy frame. It can. I was referring to the fact that the Specialized frame probably cost less than you think to make, and that the prices charged in the UK are rather high (compared with the US).

The main advantage of a Tricross would be that you could race cyclocross on it. I love cyclocross, but it is not everyones cup of tea....

aracer

alfablue wrote:

Well if you reckon its a placebo effect I'm going to have to do a blind trial then!

Go for it! Problem is that it's actually impossible to do a proper blind trial, as even blindfolded most people could probably tell which frame was the 531c and which the alu, despite no difference in comfort (as I mentioned above).

Have to admit I've not actually looked at the prices and specs of the tricross bikes, and you're probably right that they're overpriced for what they are. However I'm also unconvinced that you could build a £300 frame up to a similar spec for less money. You also still seem to be making the assumption that a handbuilt steel would actually be better to ride than a cheap generic Taiwanese alu frame.

niblue

acorn_user wrote:

The main advantage of a Tricross would be that you could race cyclocross on it. I love cyclocross, but it is not everyones cup of tea....

I've no intention of racing cyclocross on mine, however I do intend to ride it off road (and have done so already) both when varying my commuting route (I can detour up in the Pentland hills) and when touring.

As for value for money - it's no worse than other bikes in the UK (and better than very many).

I could have got a touring bike (I considered the Kona Sutra) however I had a £1000 price limit for a fully-built bike (due to the bike-to-work scheme) and at that price point tourers are either pretty heavy or have some component choices (e.g. bar-end shifters on the Sutra) that didn't suit me.

acorn_user

"You also still seem to be making the assumption that a handbuilt steel would actually be better to ride than a cheap generic Taiwanese alu frame."

Agreed, I am making that assumption. It's not always true either. But I am willing to assume it often is. Maybe I am a sucker for pretty lugs!

Here is Ellis Briggs 900 pounds touring bike. Sensible kit; full Tiagra with handbuilt wheels, guards etc already included. Or Spa have the Super Galaxy for 700.

http://customframebuilding.ellisbriggsc ... /bikes.php

FORT is another oft overlooked option, and the Edinburgh Coop cross bike is only 350 (albeit with Sora).

Of course, fit is the most important thing, which is why the Hewitt idea is good.

aracer

acorn_user wrote:

"You also still seem to be making the assumption that a handbuilt steel would actually be better to ride than a cheap generic Taiwanese alu frame."

Agreed, I am making that assumption. It's not always true either. But I am willing to assume it often is. Maybe I am a sucker for pretty lugs!

You are at least honest!

Personally I remain convinced that alu is actually a better material for a tourer, since in this application stiffer is better (though I may be biased by the fact that most of my touring has been on a tandem, and here stiffer is very definitely better, hence I really like our Cannondale girder).

niblue

acorn_user wrote:

Here is Ellis Briggs 900 pounds touring bike. Sensible kit; full Tiagra with handbuilt wheels, guards etc already included.

Looks a nice bike, however how is that, Tiagra equipped at £899, better value than the Tricross Sport at £699 (also Tiagra equipped)?

FORT is another oft overlooked option, and the Edinburgh Coop cross bike is only 350 (albeit with Sora).

That's a new bike in the Edinburgh Bicycles range and I suspect they could well sell a good number of them - it looks like it'd be a great first-drop bar bike. My first road bike was a Giant OCR3T, bought from Edinburgh Bicycle and about the same price as their CX bike - had their CX been available back then I'd definitely have bought one instead of the OCR.