Spoke count query

fosmaal

Going to do a bit of light touring later in the year, and would like to know if a 32 spoke rear wheel would be strong enough?

I intend to carry a couple of panniers and a bar bag, but I certainly will not be fully loaded and I weigh about 75kg.

Thanks

synchronicity

I suppose it depends on where you are going touring... I mean, what's the chances like of encountering replacement wheels in Africa? OTOH, in France, you should be fine, right? Is it worth spending money for 4 extra spokes if that's the case?

graemetherunner

what rims, spokes & hub are your 32's

paul_smith_srcc

As rule of thumb with traditional wheels the more spokes the stronger the wheel, so if you work on that theory you will not go to far wrong, after all there are simply more spokes to take up the strain.

In reality if the same rims, spokes tubes and tyres are the same then the following as a general guide may be useful:

40 hole: Very strong and popular with tandems and load carrying touring bikes

36/32 hole: Both will give a similar ride and both be robust enough for general club riding, audax and light touring when rims like Mavic Open Pro are used. For loaded touring when the rims are normally wider and stronger then the majority will use 36 hole and a rim like Mavic A719 the for example

28 hole: Will be slightly lighter but less robust, plus from your point of view if you have not built many wheels they are not quite as easy to build, these days quite a rare thing to see on a handbuilt wheel.

For touring and general club riding both 36 or 32 or fine. These days when I use traditional built wheels then I use Mavic Open Pro rims in 32hole, simply because they were more readily available than 36h at the time, if it had been vice versa then I would have happily used them, as I have already implied 36 against 32 with the set up I use and for what I need them for makes little difference.

I also have some prebuilt Mavic Cosmos that have proved durable and reliable since I bought them in 2001, both fine for day rides and the lightweight tours that I have linked to below using 700 x 28c tyres, these days only if you need something more robust then stronger wider heavier rims that take larger tyres would be worth considering.

Gone are the days when you had to invest heavily and buy handbuilt to obtain a good wheel, modern styled Pre built wheels like the Mavic Cosmos and Campagnolo made Fulcrum are well worth considering, even the cheapest model, the Fulcrum 7 is very good and would make an ideal fast day ride or light touring wheel.

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

fosmaal wrote:

Going to do a bit of light touring later in the year, and would like to know if a 32 spoke rear wheel would be strong enough?

I intend to carry a couple of panniers and a bar bag, but I certainly will not be fully loaded and I weigh about 75kg.

Thanks

synchronicity

I too have had good performance out of cosmos wheels and other 28 spoke wheelsets (for example the all round wheelset available from decathlon) for training purposes.

After using other lower spoke counts (16-24) with carbon rims etc, I've experienced several rim failures (HED J2, spinergy stealth pbo) and consistently broken spokes (zipp 303), I'm finally going to try out a handbuilt 28 spoke wheelset using mavic open pros! I pick them up this Friday or Saturday. I'm looking forward to the reliability & general cheapness of it all

paul_smith_srcc

Modern Rebuilt wheels normally have far fewer spokes than traditonal built, 28h tradional style is these days quite uncommon.

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

synchronicity wrote:

I too have had good performance out of cosmos wheels and other 28 spoke wheelsets (for example the all round wheelset available from decathlon) for training purposes.

After using other lower spoke counts (16-24) with carbon rims etc, I've experienced several rim failures (HED J2, spinergy stealth pbo) and consistently broken spokes (zipp 303), I'm finally going to try out a handbuilt 28 spoke wheelset using mavic open pros! I pick them up this Friday or Saturday. I'm looking forward to the reliability & general cheapness of it all

wildmoustache

Paul_Smith SRCC wrote:

As rule of thumb with traditional wheels the more spokes the stronger the wheel, so if you work on that theory you will not go to far wrong, after all there are simply more spokes to take up the strain.

In reality if the same rims, spokes tubes and tyres are the same then the following as a general guide may be useful:

40 hole: Very strong and popular with tandems and load carrying touring bikes

36/32 hole: Both will give a similar ride and both be robust enough for general club riding, audax and light touring when rims like Mavic Open Pro are used. For loaded touring when the rims are normally wider and stronger then the majority will use 36 hole and a rim like Mavic A719 the for example

28 hole: Will be slightly lighter but less robust, plus from your point of view if you have not built many wheels they are not quite as easy to build, these days quite a rare thing to see on a handbuilt wheel.

For touring and general club riding both 36 or 32 or fine. These days when I use traditional built wheels then I use Mavic Open Pro rims in 32hole, simply because they were more readily available than 36h at the time, if it had been vice versa then I would have happily used them, as I have already implied 36 against 32 with the set up I use and for what I need them for makes little difference.

I also have some prebuilt Mavic Cosmos that have proved durable and reliable since I bought them in 2001, both fine for day rides and the lightweight tours that I have linked to below using 700 x 28c tyres, these days only if you need something more robust then stronger wider heavier rims that take larger tyres would be worth considering.

Gone are the days when you had to invest heavily and buy handbuilt to obtain a good wheel, modern styled Pre built wheels like the Mavic Cosmos and Campagnolo made Fulcrum are well worth considering, even the cheapest model, the Fulcrum 7 is very good and would make an ideal fast day ride or light touring wheel.

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

fosmaal wrote:

Going to do a bit of light touring later in the year, and would like to know if a 32 spoke rear wheel would be strong enough?

I intend to carry a couple of panniers and a bar bag, but I certainly will not be fully loaded and I weigh about 75kg.

Thanks

this is informative but i reckon you're overlooking how strong some low spoke count wheels can be. you might not want to go over africa in them but , for example, a pair of ksyriums can easily handle moderate touring

paul_smith_srcc

That is why I highlighted traditional wheels in red as a header regarding spoke count, maybe I should have also high lighted that modern prebuilt wheels, like the Mavic Ksyriums (I also use them myself) as well as the Fulcrum and Cosmos that I mentioned have far fewer spokes than tradional built wheels, yet due to their modern designs this does not mean they are any weaker.

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

wildmoustache wrote:

Paul_Smith SRCC wrote:

As rule of thumb with traditional wheels the more spokes the stronger the wheel, so if you work on that theory you will not go to far wrong, after all there are simply more spokes to take up the strain.

In reality if the same rims, spokes tubes and tyres are the same then the following as a general guide may be useful:

40 hole: Very strong and popular with tandems and load carrying touring bikes

36/32 hole: Both will give a similar ride and both be robust enough for general club riding, audax and light touring when rims like Mavic Open Pro are used. For loaded touring when the rims are normally wider and stronger then the majority will use 36 hole and a rim like Mavic A719 the for example

28 hole: Will be slightly lighter but less robust, plus from your point of view if you have not built many wheels they are not quite as easy to build, these days quite a rare thing to see on a handbuilt wheel.

For touring and general club riding both 36 or 32 or fine. These days when I use traditional built wheels then I use Mavic Open Pro rims in 32hole, simply because they were more readily available than 36h at the time, if it had been vice versa then I would have happily used them, as I have already implied 36 against 32 with the set up I use and for what I need them for makes little difference.

I also have some prebuilt Mavic Cosmos that have proved durable and reliable since I bought them in 2001, both fine for day rides and the lightweight tours that I have linked to below using 700 x 28c tyres, these days only if you need something more robust then stronger wider heavier rims that take larger tyres would be worth considering.

Gone are the days when you had to invest heavily and buy handbuilt to obtain a good wheel, modern styled Pre built wheels like the Mavic Cosmos and Campagnolo made Fulcrum are well worth considering, even the cheapest model, the Fulcrum 7 is very good and would make an ideal fast day ride or light touring wheel.

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

fosmaal wrote:

Going to do a bit of light touring later in the year, and would like to know if a 32 spoke rear wheel would be strong enough?

I intend to carry a couple of panniers and a bar bag, but I certainly will not be fully loaded and I weigh about 75kg.

Thanks

this is informative but i reckon you're overlooking how strong some low spoke count wheels can be. you might not want to go over africa in them but , for example, a pair of ksyriums can easily handle moderate touring

wildmoustache

Paul_Smith SRCC wrote:

That is why I highlighted traditional wheels in red as a header regarding spoke count, maybe I should have also high lighted that modern prebuilt wheels, like the Mavic Ksyriums (I also use them myself) as well as the Fulcrum and Cosmos that I mentioned have far fewer spokes than tradional built wheels, yet due to their modern designs this does not mean they are any weaker.

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

wildmoustache wrote:

Paul_Smith SRCC wrote:

As rule of thumb with traditional wheels the more spokes the stronger the wheel, so if you work on that theory you will not go to far wrong, after all there are simply more spokes to take up the strain.

In reality if the same rims, spokes tubes and tyres are the same then the following as a general guide may be useful:

40 hole: Very strong and popular with tandems and load carrying touring bikes

36/32 hole: Both will give a similar ride and both be robust enough for general club riding, audax and light touring when rims like Mavic Open Pro are used. For loaded touring when the rims are normally wider and stronger then the majority will use 36 hole and a rim like Mavic A719 the for example

28 hole: Will be slightly lighter but less robust, plus from your point of view if you have not built many wheels they are not quite as easy to build, these days quite a rare thing to see on a handbuilt wheel.

For touring and general club riding both 36 or 32 or fine. These days when I use traditional built wheels then I use Mavic Open Pro rims in 32hole, simply because they were more readily available than 36h at the time, if it had been vice versa then I would have happily used them, as I have already implied 36 against 32 with the set up I use and for what I need them for makes little difference.

I also have some prebuilt Mavic Cosmos that have proved durable and reliable since I bought them in 2001, both fine for day rides and the lightweight tours that I have linked to below using 700 x 28c tyres, these days only if you need something more robust then stronger wider heavier rims that take larger tyres would be worth considering.

Gone are the days when you had to invest heavily and buy handbuilt to obtain a good wheel, modern styled Pre built wheels like the Mavic Cosmos and Campagnolo made Fulcrum are well worth considering, even the cheapest model, the Fulcrum 7 is very good and would make an ideal fast day ride or light touring wheel.

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

fosmaal wrote:

Going to do a bit of light touring later in the year, and would like to know if a 32 spoke rear wheel would be strong enough?

I intend to carry a couple of panniers and a bar bag, but I certainly will not be fully loaded and I weigh about 75kg.

Thanks

this is informative but i reckon you're overlooking how strong some low spoke count wheels can be. you might not want to go over africa in them but , for example, a pair of ksyriums can easily handle moderate touring

aha ... i get your system now ... apologies!

I am not a huge tourer but am surprised by how well some low spoke count wheels hold up. most amazingly have been my Shimano WH-R540s ... all of 16spokes F&R and they have never needed trued in about 13,000km

geoff_ss

All the solo wheels I've built for my and my wife's use have been a minimum of 36 spokes each because we used our bikes for commuting and cycle camping holidays. We never had any problems even when we indulged in a little rough stuff.

I've just built myself a pair of 32 spoke wheels on 105 hubs and Mavic OpenPro rims. I'm very impressed with the quality of these rims - they are very stiff and very easy to build which I put down to their being true and round before the build starts. I suspect earlier rims (Mavic MA3 etc) weren't so accurately manufactured.

When we were in France last year a couple of French cycle campers we saw had bikes with wheels that had as few as 16/20 spokes. They claimed not to have had any problems!

So I think you should be OK with your existing wheels assuming they're well-built before you start out.

Geoff

robbarker

Read the "what makes a wheel strong" sticky thread on the mountain bike workshop and tech forum. You'll probably want to opt for 36 spokes once you have!

fosmaal

Thanks for your thoughts and inputs guys. It has certainly given me some food for thought.