Headcam cyclists in media spotlight
Comments
-
Gosh, I had no idea I was still registered here...gtvlusso wrote:Learning from a video on youtube?! I would be livid about being filmed in the first instance for all the world to see, then bloody annoyed at someone else putting their perception of what I was supposedly doing wrong in their opinion.......it is clearly open to abuse and mis-interpretation and I think it is downright dangerous for society.
If you were doing something stupid enough to be worth uploading, that would be your own fault. It's like speed cameras. If you are that worried about being snapped, don't do something bad. I think putting up a clip of someone passing too close with a caption saying "this person is passing too close" is fairly simple and self explanatory. What's to misinterpret?If I simply don't know Sue - then maybe she is a complete nutter and a danger to herself and others then - perhaps she would like to be the point of someone elses film on youtube........Do you honestly think you would change your ways - if a video of you was up in front of millions pointing you out (in someone elses opinion - you may not agree with their opinion and have no way of removing the video)?
Well, if I did something stupid, I'd have nothing to complain about, would I? If what I did was patently wrong, people would see that, and if it wasn't they see that too, and know that the other person's opinion was wrong.
BTW, I'm perfectly competant and confident as a cyclist, and as far as I can tell have never been a danger to anyone, whether on a bike, or in a car or in the 7.5 tonne truck I used to drive for work. I'm Sue, incidentally. I can't offer an unbiased opinion on the nutter bit, I'm afraid.
If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.0 -
Aye up Arch!
Spotted another rider out with an ATC2000 this afternoon.
I'm waiting for the price to come down....
0 -
Gambatte wrote:Aye up Arch!
Spotted another rider out with an ATC2000 this afternoon.
I'm waiting for the price to come down....
Decathlon sell a Geonaute X'Snipe 300 which looks amazingly similar to the ATC2000 for £69. They don't have them at Lakeside or Canada Water so I am still waiting to see it they are the same.
http://www.decathlon.co.uk/EN/x-snipe-300-28333551/
0 -
Mr_Cellophane wrote:Gambatte wrote:Aye up Arch!
Spotted another rider out with an ATC2000 this afternoon.
I'm waiting for the price to come down....
Decathlon sell a Geonaute X'Snipe 300 which looks amazingly similar to the ATC2000 for £69. They don't have them at Lakeside or Canada Water so I am still waiting to see it they are the same.
http://www.decathlon.co.uk/EN/x-snipe-300-28333551/
Check out this link
http://www.asmc.de/en/Optics/Binoculars ... 000-p.html
Looks like its the same, just rebadged0 -
Hi Archcp.
Hmm - Whenever you comment on your footage it is still simply your interpretation, which still could be wrong under the circumstance - so, don't assume you are always right or a good cyclist, car driver or whatever! I am happy for you to film, but uploading it onto youtube and then commenting is simply stupid, as you may be very wrong and annoy allot of drivers local to you. The other thing is that allot of other road users may not cycle and realise what it is like - absolute innocence! My wife was completely unaware of motorbikes until we met - she had no idea of the manouverability, acceleration or vulnerability of motorbikes until she became a pillion.....so don't asume that society: a; gives a damn and b; knows any different - peope don't watch youtube for education and you know no better to tell anyone - in fact it probably enfuriates and makes more of a divide between us and other road users......
My main concern is that if we do this as cyclists en mass, then other road users will follow on (cars, motorbikes, buses and so on) and we will develop a "blame" culture and probably not be so aware of each other as we will have footage on video - hence negating blame for a given situation - and ultimately an "I'm alright jack, cause I am filming you" mentality - how about a nice CCTV pole in your back garden,so that the police can be looking over your house, just incase? Have you read 1984?
I don't think I would have time to filam anyway as I have other priorities (like cycling and rowing!)0 -
Hi Archcp.
Hmm - Whenever you comment on your footage it is still simply your interpretation, which still could be wrong under the circumstance - so, don't assume you are always right or a good cyclist, car driver or whatever! I am happy for you to film, but uploading it onto youtube and then commenting is simply stupid, as you may be very wrong and annoy allot of drivers local to you. The other thing is that allot of other road users may not cycle and realise what it is like - absolute innocence! My wife was completely unaware of motorbikes until we met - she had no idea of the manouverability, acceleration or vulnerability of motorbikes until she became a pillion.....so don't asume that society: a; gives a damn and b; knows any different - peope don't watch youtube for education and you know no better to tell anyone - in fact it probably enfuriates and makes more of a divide between us and other road users......
My main concern is that if we do this as cyclists en mass, then other road users will follow on (cars, motorbikes, buses and so on) and we will develop a "blame" culture and probably not be so aware of each other as we will have footage on video - hence negating blame for a given situation - and ultimately an "I'm alright jack, cause I am filming you" mentality - how about a nice CCTV pole in your back garden,so that the police can be looking over your house, just incase? Have you read 1984?
I don't think I would have time to filam anyway as I have other priorities (like cycling and rowing!)0 -
gtvlusso wrote:Hi Archcp.
Hmm - Whenever you comment on your footage it is still simply your interpretation, which still could be wrong under the circumstance - so, don't assume you are always right or a good cyclist, car driver or whatever!
I don't 'assume' I'm right. I know full well, you never stop learning to drive, or ride, just because you've passed a test. But if the highway code says "leave the space of a small car when overtaking a cyclist" and someone leaves a foot, how is that not wrong? I don't just post up every little thing that happens, you know, I post up stuff that makes a clear point. And if it's not clear, someone will pick me up on it. And I'm well aware of the difference between a camera eye view and my own senses. Sometimes, reviewing footage, I see something looks worse than it felt, because the camera doesn't have peripheral vision. So I don't post things that just look a bit close, unless I felt it was the case at the time, because they may be deceptive.I am happy for you to film, but uploading it onto youtube and then commenting is simply stupid, as you may be very wrong and annoy allot of drivers local to you. The other thing is that allot of other road users may not cycle and realise what it is like - absolute innocence! My wife was completely unaware of motorbikes until we met - she had no idea of the manouverability, acceleration or vulnerability of motorbikes until she became a pillion.....so don't asume that society: a; gives a damn and b; knows any different - peope don't watch youtube for education and you know no better to tell anyone - in fact it probably enfuriates and makes more of a divide between us and other road users......
But part of the point is to make people aware. What's more positive, positng something up that someone MIGHT learn from, or just raging inwardly. 'Absolute innocence' is an interesting phrase. Makes it sound like people driving cars badly are simply suffering from some childlike naivety, that they can't help and we should make allowances for them. Didn't they take tests like I did? Didn't they read the higway code at some point? Do you HAVE to experience something in order to understand it? God help us all if so. True, experience makes for more understanding, but what's so hard about hearing "Keep your distance", and simply obeying it?My main concern is that if we do this as cyclists en mass, then other road users will follow on (cars, motorbikes, buses and so on) and we will develop a "blame" culture and probably not be so aware of each other as we will have footage on video - hence negating blame for a given situation - and ultimately an "I'm alright jack, cause I am filming you" mentality - how about a nice CCTV pole in your back garden,so that the police can be looking over your house, just incase? Have you read 1984?
I don't think I would have time to filam anyway as I have other priorities (like cycling and rowing!)
Well, I click the helmet in the mount, press the on button, and ride away. Takes about as long as putting on my gloves. If nothing noteworthy happens, I delete the footage at the end of the day. If I decide it's worth keeping I down load it next time I have the computer on. If I chose to make it into a film and upload it, I do that when I fancy it. As a matter of fact, I enjoy the editing process, and making films is one of my pastimes.
As a matter of fact, I don't think wearing the camera affects my attitude on the road. Of course, I realise I may not be the best judge of that, as self assessment is not always accurate. But I know of other camera users who say the camera actually gives them a sense of calm, and that it improves the way they deal with people who cut them up.
BTW, I'm intrigued by your initial idea that I must be 'nervous'. I wonder if you'd say that if I was a six foot tall Glaswegian chap with a beard, and not obviously, from my name, a woman. Because all the people I know who wear cameras are very confident and competant cyclists and quite able to handle themselves in a dispute.If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.0 -
gtvlusso wrote:My main concern is that if we do this as cyclists en mass, then other road users will follow on (cars, motorbikes, buses and so on) and we will develop a "blame" culture and probably not be so aware of each other as we will have footage on video - hence negating blame for a given situation - and ultimately an "I'm alright jack, cause I am filming you" mentality - how about a nice CCTV pole in your back garden,so that the police can be looking over your house, just incase? Have you read 1984?
I don't think I would have time to filam anyway as I have other priorities (like cycling and rowing!)
Helmet cams are NOT anything like Big brother, they are in fact COMPLETELY the opposite, big brother was all about totalitarian government control, the whole novel is against government interferance. Helmet cams are about empowering the individual, democratizing evidence! big brother was all about government persecuting defenceless citizens, helmet cams are about citizens protecting themselves, including if necesary from the state. (Think about cameras being used in public in the case of Rodney King!) Members of the public filming and sharing videos of events is the diametric opposite of the government run surveilance in 1984.
One can only imagine how "The party" would have looked upon members of the public recording actual events and sharing them with other members of the public, free from ministry of truth editing ...
To talk about helmet cams in terms of 1984 is to misunderstand the point of the novel...
Your logic of filming in public being so obscene to the principles of freedom would soon see people curtailed from using camcorders outside their own four walls, or people not allowed to take photos in public places... Madness. All for what to protect the ego of the bumbling motorist who comes inchs from killing a cyclist during a blonde moment??
Helmet cams are not invading privacy its not the same as state ran cctv in your garden filming your house. Helmet cams film only that which is done in public in front of members of the public! Your driving standards are already visible to people not known to you and open to their comments, have you never said "whats that idiot doing?", If you havent you are in the minority. It has the potential to widen the audience of an already public event but that is all, and lets face it its not just cameras that do this, Cyclists without cameras share their bad experiences of road users without cameras, the incidents recorded through the "natural" head cam of the eyes and brains conveyed to other readers through words. Helmet cams dont change the nature of the communication and sharing of the experience they just paint the scene more realistically. Cyclists are not alone in sharing their experiences on the road Ive heard it enough from other drivers as well...
Whats more the "State" has no access to this footage there is no central control of this footage, helmet cams are far more about personal freedom, they cant be used by the government to track and trace you. They can be used against the government, they can be used as back up to the "truth" of what happened in an event.
One of the great things about the internet is its democratic nature (again completely against the principles of 1984) Motorists CAN and do take part in discussions on clips on you tube.
Its interesting that you suggest the development of a "blame" culture, I hate to break it to you but its there already every accident will be investigated and blame apportioned, its there already all a helmet cam does it provide a far more reliable independant witness to events than any persons memory possibly can. A helmet cam can only bring truth and justice to a situation after an accident, it doesnt turn something that would otherwise have been consequence free into a law suit. A helmet cam protects both drivers and cyclists, the helmet cam shows the truth, when it comes down to a cyclists word against a motorists (which happens regardless of a helmet cams presence) if the cyclist is in the wrong the helmet cam will show it! possibly saving the license of an innocent driver who might otherwise have been doing time!
I dont see how helmet cameras can possibly lead to less awareness of others on the road, they cant absolve you from guilt when they record you doing something wrong. The camera as a witness doesnt take your side! Filming your own actions cant put you "in the right" when you arent... If anything having a helmet camera recording makes you think more about getting your own actions right because it is being recorded! IF anything happened you need to make sure your road use was up to scratch for it to be of any use at all...
I dont understand why you say you dont have time to film? press one button at the start press another at the end, no "time" taken...0 -
Regarding helmet cams, are there any with a decent integrated battery that are light enough that record straight onto a card which can easily be deleted, oh and that are watreproof and shockproof enough for commuting?Dan0
-
*applauds DavidTQ's eloquence*Even if the voices aren't real, they have some very good ideas.0
-
flattythehurdler wrote:Regarding helmet cams, are there any with a decent integrated battery that are light enough that record straight onto a card which can easily be deleted, oh and that are watreproof and shockproof enough for commuting?
ATC2000 ticks all the boxes except integrated battery it uses a rechargeables which need to b e removed to be recharged. A set of decent duracell rechargeables gives me 6 hours filming! The atc does record straight onto SD card, and deleteing of footage can be done from the camera itself easily enough. The ATC2000 is waterproof and shock proof enough for all weather commuting.0 -
HI DavidTQ,
Very eloquent indeed on 1984, but I think you missed my point.
Simply, that everyone is watching everyone else....Hence we are all being watched all the time and no one is allowed to make a mistake or have a bad day........Try having 2 kids in the car driving you nuts, or being a service engineer under pressure to find your way around a city or area you do not know - people are not perfect and their lives are not perfect and this kind of behaviour with cameras just antagonises and divides us from everyone else as being different and acting like "know it alls".
Like I said, film if you want for fun, but putting it on youtube and then commenting on it is just stupid and pointless!!
As a driver (I also hold Race national B licence), a motorcyclist (again I hold a national race licence), a cyclist (I commute and I race at a local level) and a HGV 1 licence (I had a an idea about driving across the USA as a contract trucker from watching BJ and the Bear when I was a kid!!!!) - I would hazard a guess that I have a fair bit of road knowledge to express an opinion and my opinion is that this is bad news for all concerned. I have not heard a good argument for it yet from anyone else other than people saying "you are wrong", but not explaining why!
The less tolerance there is on the road and the more that cyclists do this sort of thing the more we will be persecuted and ostresized - we will build up division.
Just my opinion, And I think it is bad for us as a whole! But ultimately it is up to the individual - after all, we get classed with the kids on BMX's who jump kerbs and don't bother looking and the RLJ's....like me, who do bad things - At least I bothered to explain my reasoning.
blah blah blah blah blah - I could probably go on, but that would be boring.....0 -
gtvlusso wrote:HI DavidTQ,
Very eloquent indeed on 1984, but I think you missed my point.
Simply, that everyone is watching everyone else....Hence we are all being watched all the time and no one is allowed to make a mistake or have a bad day........Try having 2 kids in the car driving you nuts, or being a service engineer under pressure to find your way around a city or area you do not know - people are not perfect and their lives are not perfect and this kind of behaviour with cameras just antagonises and divides us from everyone else as being different and acting like "know it alls".
Cyclists with headcams are doing no more "watching" with a headcam than they are without. That simple mistake or "bad day" could be my life on the line, which it wouldnt be if I was in a car. Having a helmet cam means that that persons off day isnt likely to result in them doing a bunk leaving me laying in the road! or them lieing through their teeth to avoid the rightfull consequences of their actions. I have 4 kids and have drove around with them many times before picking up cycle commuting I never had huge problems with that nor with the idea that people were "watching me". I dont believe that using a camera will "antagonise and divide us" from other road users anywhere near as much as being on two wheels and having a lower top speed will. The single biggest divide between a cyclist and a motorist is size of vehicle... Thats it in a nutshell, cameras dont make our vehicles appreciably bigger or faster so they dont bring us closer to harmony with cars and HGV's, they also dont make us smaller or slower hance not bringing us further from harmony.
Cyclists talking on here WILL share experiences with or without helmet cams they will still me talking about the same drivers in the same terms with or without helmet cams, the "motorists" in question will find those threads as easily as they find helmet cam ones. All cyclists come with the pre built in recording device of the eyes they will still talk about the same motorsists the same way, with or without helmet camera back up.gtvlusso wrote:Like I said, film if you want for fun, but putting it on youtube and then commenting on it is just stupid and pointless!!
I disagree, I think it highlights the dangers for cyclists so people can learn from others mistakes cyclists and drivers alike! I actually feel that helmet cam footage can be a powerful educational tool for all road users! Cyclists use this to get advice from other cyclists on how better to use a stretch of road etc. There are many and varied uses for helmet cam footage and youtube. I dont like the lack of freedom of expression sharing of information that you propose...gtvlusso wrote:As a driver (I also hold Race national B licence), a motorcyclist (again I hold a national race licence), a cyclist (I commute and I race at a local level) and a HGV 1 licence (I had a an idea about driving across the USA as a contract trucker from watching BJ and the Bear when I was a kid!!!!) - I would hazard a guess that I have a fair bit of road knowledge to express an opinion and my opinion is that this is bad news for all concerned. I have not heard a good argument for it yet from anyone else other than people saying "you are wrong", but not explaining why!
Im a former british championship class leading rally driver (talk about mistakes being made public my car made its way on to crash kings videos and I was shown on SKY ), a motorcyclist only for a short while when I was 16, never been a HGV driver although some of the lwb van + car carrying trailer combos Ive driven are pretty much HGV length I have yet to hear one good argument for us not to use these cameras, in fact even when driving I was thinking along a similiar line and indeed some drivers ARE fitting these to their cars as well! Its not an us vs them thing cyclists vs cars.gtvlusso wrote:The less tolerance there is on the road and the more that cyclists do this sort of thing the more we will be persecuted and ostresized - we will build up division.
Nonsense car drivers are DAILY taking cyclists lives in their hands to get the back of lights queues quicker overtaking when they wouldnt overtake a car leaving less room than they would if it were a car. The difference comes down to DRIVERS who have no respect for smaller forms of transport if a cycle were the size of car not only would it be heavy to pedal, but it would also get a lot less poor driving around it. Cameras do bugger all to make the situation any worse than it is just by us being there on the roads in the first place. Persecution of cyclists on the road has nothing to do with cameras its just because we are there and out vehicles are small and relatively slow.
Maybe IF as many cyclists had cameras as currently run red lights and pavement ride it would have an effect, but for the forseeable future helmet cams are not part of motorist kinds consciousness. Maybe if there were huge numbers of "little hitlers" reporting every slight mistake motorists made then it would have an effect but although it might piss of drivers, I dont see this situation ever occuring... I still think the outcome would be a net gain for cyclist safety!
We annoy drivers just by being "there" our existance in the world is enough to anger many drivers out there, let alone our insistance of a right to use the road...gtvlusso wrote:Just my opinion, And I think it is bad for us as a whole! But ultimately it is up to the individual - after all, we get classed with the kids on BMX's who jump kerbs and don't bother looking and the RLJ's....like me, who do bad things - At least I bothered to explain my reasoning.
I dont think it is bad for us as a whole, in fact I believe that using a camera as a form of self defence is as likely to help our safety, people are less likely to make deliberately bad choices when they know there is evidence if they dont like the fact that there is evidence of their bad behaviour tough. Long term if more cyclists take this up I could see far less drivers being prepared to make bad decisions and lets face it a lot of it is just poor decisions rather than being distracted.
I have a wife and 4 kids, I want to get home to them in one piece. Personally I view a camera as one of the things that can help make that more likelly. Not just by putting off other people from doing "bad things" but by allowing me to look at close calls and modify my cycling in a way I couldnt do without the aid of the impartial all seeing camera.
If you look around you will see that cyclists often comment not only the motorists in the footage but also offer hints to the cyclists on how better to handle some situations!0 -
gtvlusso wrote:HI DavidTQ,
Very eloquent indeed on 1984, but I think you missed my point.
Simply, that everyone is watching everyone else....Hence we are all being watched all the time and no one is allowed to make a mistake or have a bad day........Try having 2 kids in the car driving you nuts, or being a service engineer under pressure to find your way around a city or area you do not know - people are not perfect and their lives are not perfect and this kind of behaviour with cameras just antagonises and divides us from everyone else as being different and acting like "know it alls".
/quote]
I'm afraid you are expected to be prefect, in the sense people are expected not to endanger others.
If a driver is unable to control their car for any reason they shouldn't be driving it.
I find it amazing that you feel that it's OK to make mistakes that may result in your death or the death of others.15 * 2 * 5
* 46 = Happiness0 -
Well said, cupoftea.0
