What can be done to improve riding standards in races?

alan_sherman

After enduring a particularly scary race yesterday, which ended with someone taking me out in a highly dangerous move, I've been considreing what could be done to improve the standard of riding in our races. It does seem to be getting worse with more unsafe riding all the time, especially at the front end off the season.

What are your thoughts?

Bronzie

I think part of the problem is that the traditional route to racing through the junior ranks is becoming something of a rarity.

So many riders now get into racing later in life after crossing over from sportifs etc (like myself in fact :roll: ) and group riding is something new to them rather than being second nature as it would be if you grew up riding well organised club runs and started racing at junior level. The general level of group riding in sportifs can be shockingly bad, especially in the UK, and this seems to be finding it's way into road racing as well.

Maybe as part of getting a 4th cat racing licence you had to do some sort of accreditation (similar to that you have to do before being let loose at Manchester velodrome), although I can't see BC wanting to put too many barriers in the way of getting people racing.

nolf

If someone acts dangerously I think it's probably more appropriate to just tell them so- they probably won't do it again.

You have to remember some people do this racing thing for fun, bit unfair to make people who race for fun to start at a junior level and then gradually progress up the ranks before being allowed to race properly.

Especially seeing as most racers seem to be either juniors or 35+ with little in between.

Accreditation might work but then there's the hassle of getting one- I'm really struggling to find time/place where I can get a track accreditation, having to get one before road racing would be a real hassle- also it would require someone to be there- expensive.

Bronzie

nolf wrote:

bit unfair to make people who race for fun to start at a junior level and then gradually progress up the ranks before being allowed to race properly.

I wasn't suggesting this as a solution, purely commenting that relatively few people get into bike racing as kids now and work their way up learning the ropes as they go.

nolf wrote:

Accreditation might work but then there's the hassle of getting one

You need to pass a test to drive a car, and yet you can pay £65 to BC for a licence and race without ever having to prove your ability to ride at 30mph elbow to elbow with 80 others.

There is a thread over on VR at the minute about a loony move at Hillingdon on Saturday where a rider went down the pit lane and across the grass forcing his way back in so that he could move up the bunch, causing a stack which resulted in some poor sod being carted off to A+E. Crazy.
http://www.veloriders.co.uk/phpBB2/view ... hp?t=66515

Truth is that bike racing is risky enough as it is, but dangerous riding and stupid moves should be dealt with severely by the commissaires and BC.

Kléber

Bronzie wrote:

There is a thread over on VR at the minute about a loony move at Hillingdon on Saturday where a rider went down the pit lane and across the grass forcing his way back in so that he could move up the bunch, causing a stack which resulted in some poor sod being carted off to A+E.

Hmm, no accident, this is a premeditated move that's close to assault/ GBH. Who ever does things like this should be banned for a year. Just as you'd demand damages if a motorist rode into you, certainly the victims should think of making some claims off this rider's insurance.

Spinnerman

In the US and Canada, there is a Category 5 for beginners. In the US, you must race 10 mass start road races (or more) to earn an upgrade to a Cat 4. In Canada, it is even stricter, I believe, where you must earn a certain number of poiints. Many states in the US also have what is called a citizens race or true beginners races.

The only drawback to this option is the promoters can be allowed to combine Cat 5's with the 4's provided there will be 75 or fewer racers in the race. I believe there is a max rider limit of 50 for Cat 5 races and 75 for Cat 4 races. However, I read the results of one race last year where there was a combined 4/5 race that had 95 racers ... so I wonder if the promoter was fined for that one.

There is also a Master's class of categories in my state, but the problem with this is similar to what was posted earlier ... you can get some squirrely riders in the early races checking out road racing to see if it is for them. Usually they are sportives. Best to stay at or near the front in these early races, ride hard, make the race hard (good for training) and worry less about results in the early races and make it more about safety so you drop the guys who are not fit to keep up.

My state has started a series of races where free racing education is provided for women riders in the lowest category. Usually a local women pro racer volunteers and gives a free clinic right before the race, rides in the race to observe what is going on and gives advice along the way and then there is a end of race discussion provided by the volunteer. After the first race last Saturday, I heard this was a big success. I think it would be a great idea to apply this to the men's field's as well. Education and feedback is the key along with seperating the true beginners until they have had experience in a certain number of races will, in the long run, make it safer and more enjoyable for eveyrone involved.

Tom Butcher

Round here most beginners start at Mallory or Darley circuits - on a nice day you can easily get over 100 riders in the 3/4 race - at the same time the E123 event will typically get 20-40 riders and probably split up more because of the greater ability of the riders to make breaks stick. Lower cat road races are normally a full field of 80 on pretty small lanes. I think the problem is as much about the size of the field as the experience of the riders.

yorkshireraw

this is an interesting subject for me - I'm primarily a runner, but years of injury and frustration have seen me start to do a bit of road biking, primarily for fun / fitness but now I'm thinking I might want to try racing to see if it can satisfy the competitive & goal-setting urges I can't meet through running at present. I'm conscious that my bike handling is probably limited at present, and also would like to be able to experience a couple of events to see if I enjoy it before going the whole hog and getting licensed etc (which would also sort of be admitting my running days were up, which isn't the easiest thing to admit either!). Are there events where you can go along, get a feel for things and learn a bit without putting others at risk with my own inexperience in a pack?

Bronzie

YorkshireRaw wrote:

Are there events where you can go along, get a feel for things and learn a bit without putting others at risk with my own inexperience in a pack?

I'd recommend the Monday night training sessions (7-9pm under floodlights) at Welwyn velodrome (you are based near me IIRC) - start early April I think - Welwyn Wheelers organise them if you need more info. You can hire track bikes for the session.

You get a feel for riding in a pack without having to worry about gears, corners..........or brakes! Once you get the hang of these, the Friday night track league starts early May and goes thro' to September.

I like the idea of the bike racing training sessions mentioned by Spinnerman. Not aware of anyhting like this organised in the UK aimed at road racing.

yorkshireraw

thanks for the advice - I was primarily interested in road racing rather than track although I guess its a good place to learn some skills? Any recommendations for first ventures on the road race scene?

Bronzie

YorkshireRaw wrote:

Any recommendations for first ventures on the road race scene?

Track racing skills (I'm talking about a 440m outdoor tarmac track not tightly banked indoor track) transfer very well to the road - it's as good a place to start as any - there's just a bit more going on in road races...........fighting for position for corners, people locking their wheels up, traffic etc.

The local closed circuit to us is Milton Keynes Bowl - there are races there for the next 2 Saturdays and the evening series starts 17th April (7-8pm). However I see crashes there most weeks unlike the track (which is every other week :P ).

alan_sherman

Indeed I was the first rider to go flying at the Hillingdon race - I've tried to register for veloriders but haven't been accepted yet (awaiting e-mail) and I'll post.


What happened:

Last lap, back straight I am on the inside (left) holding the line on the edge of the 'road' so no-one should come up the inside. However there is the paddock where a couple of riders tried to gain places by using the paddock to overtake. Dynamo bloke made it infront of me safely enough, however there was another guy behind him that ran out of paddock and had no gap to go into so he goes straight on onto the grass. He is going quicker than me so comes up alongside then just swerves to his right, very quickly, into me to get back into the pack. He hits my bars/left hand with his leg first of all, then keeps coming right so takes out my front wheel. I fly at this point as there is nothing holding the front of my bike up so i don't know what bought the others down.

I don't know who the rider was - I just remember the kit being colourful - not dynamo kit, or the Cambridge Uni kit (both dark). Just another 70 riders to eliminate then...

Monty Dog

There is no excuse for that sort of irresponsible riding. Trouble is, a lot of new people are coming into the sport from outside without the benefits of having ridden with a club or even an experienced bunch I'm loathe to ride 3/4 cat events because I know the quality of riding is so variable and crashes almost inevitable - vets races on the other hand are considerate, self-diciplined and usually faster and tougher - probably down to the fact that most riders have been riding for 20 years plus. A friendly pat on the back and a quick word is usually what it takes to indicate to a rider the consequences of their riding. I know the Surrey League tries to organise familiarisation sessions over winter, but quite clearly the bradaggio of some riders needs a firmer hand.

Noodley

Everyone should have to have panniers. That would sort it all out.

And a bar bag.

Matchstick Man

Kléber wrote:

Hmm, no accident, this is a premeditated move that's close to assault/ GBH. Who ever does things like this should be banned for a year. Just as you'd demand damages if a motorist rode into you, certainly the victims should think of making some claims off this rider's insurance.

BC members may not claim against another's member's insurance. Gets round this type of thing otherwise BC would be skint from all the racing accidents that happen every weekend

Matchstick Man

YorkshireRaw wrote:

Are there events where you can go along, get a feel for things and learn a bit without putting others at risk with my own inexperience in a pack?

Most towns/cities should have a local weekly chaingang operating in the summer where you can get the feel for riding at speed in a group of riders and learning how to do through and off.
Also, going to ride with a club should be any novice's starting point

don key

Trevor of Ciclos Unos always asked in the sunday races if there was anyone new or novice in the bunch as he told everyone the score before the race and would give them some steady advice about what to do. Dave , one of the better riders, in his 50s but still a top competitor ranted at some guy who had clipped his pedal on Clarys corner, I said to Dave on the Oxo hill," how is that going to help the guy improve next time around, hes going to be more worried by how you spoke to him than getting the corner right". Dave reluctantly agreed with me and the race carried on without further incedant. Advice is great , abuse achieves nothing.

My first race I got to the top of Oxo started the down hill section and promptly crossed the road on the next corner as I couldnt hold the inside line at the speed I was going, I even remember who shouted at me, I was just relieved by finding everyone upright, prior to this ESL race I had never raced in my life.I could have taken down our top bad hairstyle rider as he had just returned from the Giro and thought he'd show off to us , so my showing off , although unusual out shone his 47mph down the back straight on the last lap on the hoods, can any one verify that as being how it went as someone told me he finished like this before pulling over on the last bend to allow the low cal stars to shine?

don key

Noodley wrote:

Everyone should have to have panniers. That would sort it all out.

And a bar bag.

more like a bar tab.

eh

I think we all as cyclists need to be more pro-active in making sure beginners are competent prior to entering and folk who pull dodgy moves in a race are spoken too about it, either at the time or afterwards. In any other sport I'd expect the ref to have some input as well, however, I think it is pretty hard from the position most commisaires are in behind the bunch, to see much of what is happening.

Yes traditionally clubs had a big training role in this regard and still do, but even without them there are still plenty of places for people to get experience tracks, chaingangs etc. And at worst if you know of someone who has entered a race with minimal group riding experience take them out yourself and show them the ropes on a ride around the park.