Van Nich Versus Merlin

redmenace1

Hi folks

I have decided to take the plunge and buy a titanium bike.

Just looking for a bit of advice here, is a Merlin worth the extra money over a Van Nic.
It will cost a bit more but it looks like a better bike (which prob explains the extra cost!!!!)

Anyway the direct comparison is between a Van Nic Zephyr & The Merlin CR Works.

I don't race, so comfort and climbing are key to me.
The bikes will be similarly spec' so its frame Versus Frame.
Is it work the extra cost?????

all views welcome

thanks in advance

gundersen

I'd choose a taiwan bike over an american bike any day
The taiwan workers are better qualified and live for the company
The americans are just workers who don'y give a dam
Besides that , why pay extra money for a "made in usa" sticker - you can make one of those yourself on a pc

alan_sherman

Or wait for the new Ti from Planet X - not just the sportive frame as reported on here but others are coming according to here:
http://www.tritalk.co.uk/forums/viewtop ... sc&start=0

azzerb

I've had a Merlin mountain bike before, (Not titanium), excellent bike, fantastic finish and high quality.

+ i suppose you'd see less Merlin's maybe (well around here anyway)

Pirahna

The Van Nicholas frames look to have longer head tubes, so there is a difference between the frames. If it's purely for comfort then you might end up with a big stack of spacers on the Merlin, depends if you like a high or low position.

Personally, if I had the money (which sadly I don't) I'd buy a Moots.

term1te

I ride a Van Nicholas, and met a guy with a very nice looking Merlin on a ride last year. In comparing bikes his top tube had a much clearer note than mine when struck with your knuckle. Probably of no consequence, but he was very pleased.

andyp

gundersen wrote:

I'd choose a taiwan bike over an american bike any day
The taiwan workers are better qualified and live for the company
The americans are just workers who don'y give a dam
Besides that , why pay extra money for a "made in usa" sticker - you can make one of those yourself on a pc

I presume you've interviewed them all personally to arrive at this conclusion?

socrates

If you listen to people like gunderson you will be disappointed. Van Nich are good bikes, make no mistake but there is a world of difference between them and the Merlin. Just look at the finish and the welds. Ride both and then come to your own decision but certainly do not take the word of a small minded person who seems to have a down on the USA and does not even offer an opinion coming from any sort of reasonable basis.

ellieb

I've got a Van Nich Aeolus. Dunno about the Merlin, but quite frankly the Aeolus is everything I've ever wanted on a bike. Welds & finish look pretty good to me.

giant_man

You're comparing two very different manufacturers here, there are so many ti bikes out there now, why not look at Sunday, Enigma etc, for a more informed decision.

infopete

Hi

I have a Merlin Cielo and an Omega Axis. The Merlin is in a different class from the Omega.

Pete

Andy140

Hi,

On different note - I have had my Lynskey for just over a month now, a fantastic bike and so comfortable it’s incredible. The finish and welds are superb. As said above coming to Planet X soon.

maddog 2

I've got an Airborne and the welds are fine

why are people obsessed with welds?

Make you own mind up. There's plenty of snobbery out there.

Andy140

No snobbery intended, just delighted with a purchase I deliberated over for half a year.

redmenace1

thanks for all the replies

i can assure you that it won't be based on my view of workers whether they are from USA, Taiwan or anywhere else.
I suppose that the welds may be a indication of the level of workmanship and/or general finish, but in reality it is probably more aesthetics than anything else.

anyone else agree?

gundersen

You are correct in assuming that the "look" of the welds is a cosmetic thing. Nothing to do with how good the welding is.


I have owned an usa and a taiwan titanium bikes in the past so I have a right to have an opinion.

I just can't se why you should pay more for the one with the "made in usa" sticker.

redmenace1

I have no problem with opinions.

However I have heard that the workmanship on Merlin is exquisite & hence my original question as to whether the difference is worth it, frame V frame
cheers

notsoracy rich

I have a VN Zephyr and I am very happy with it-even the welds.

So you want to know whether its worth spending £1999 on a Merlin frameset, or £808 on a Zephyr frameset-(Fatbirds prices).?

I've never ridden a Merlin or inspected the welds closely, but it would have to be very very very good to justify an extra £1200.!

toontra

I also have a VN (Yukon) and am very happy with it. The welds look perfectly alright to me (there ia a lifetime warranty on defects anyway), and I don't care what the top tube sounds like when hit - it's a bike, not a musical instrument.

Once you get to this price bracket there is a lot of mythology and snobbery IMO. The actual differences are minimal. If you want to spend 25%, 50% or even 100% extra to get smoother finished welds(not stronger, note), well, that's your choice.

PHcp

I haven't ridden any titanium bike, let alone these specific models, so I have no idea how similar or different they are to ride.
But to help understand where the money goes, it's worth noting that VNs are made from plain gauge tubes and Merlins are butted. This makes a big difference with steel, weight, strength and in controlling how rigid/flexible it is. A steel double butted tube will cost around twice the price of a plain gauge one in the same material. Titanium being notoriously difficult to manipulate I'd expect that price difference to be at least as great.
Like I said I don't know how much difference it makes, but you're paying for more than a badge and neat welds.

Paul Smith SRCC

Van Nicholas are made in China,

Most titanium manufacturers use the 3AL 2.5V grade, the 6/4 grade is usually only used for pure race bikes as the latest information I have is that Reynolds no longer make it, it is also as a finished frame more expensive, as the raw material is more difficult to both make into tubes and then to build, yet apparently the raw material is actually cheaper to buy than the 3AL 2.5V grade.

Nearly all are marketed by small independant specialists, Giant, Trek and Specialized do not use Titanium frames, price will vary quite a lot, in part this can be down to country of manufacturer. Of the well known brands:

Litespeed andMerlin are American owned and made in the USA,

Derosa are Italian owned and made in in Italy,

The three above will be at the higher end of the price ranges and are most prolific in the race bike market.

'Van Nicholas' are Dutch owned and designed, the frames made in China

Enigma are UK owned and designed, the frames made in Tawain I believe.

Both 'Van Nicholas' and 'Enigma' will be cheaper than the American and Italian frames that I mentioned, although it is a matter of opinion these days as to if quality from the Americans or Europeans is indeed better than those from either Tawain or China, as the quality of the latter, especially from the two above is indeed now extremely good.

There are some others that specialise in titanium, Sunday Bicycles (made in China), Burls (made in Russia) and Condor Cycles, plus there a few manufacturers in China that you can deal direct like Xacd, anothet you may have heard about is Setavento, but they have now closed

These links may also be of interest:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html

http://www.vannicholas.com/ResLib/WbmTitanium.aspx

http://www.caree.org/bike101framematerials.htm

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

gundersen wrote:

I'd choose a taiwan bike over an american bike any day
The taiwan workers are better qualified and live for the company
The americans are just workers who don'y give a dam
Besides that , why pay extra money for a "made in usa" sticker - you can make one of those yourself on a pc

giant_man

[quote="Andy140"]Hi,

On different note - I have had my Lynskey for just over a month now, a fantastic bike and so comfortable it’s incredible. The finish and welds are superb. As said above coming to Planet X soon.[/quote]
Is yours the ti Randon Andy? with the Alpha Q fork?

And is this the same frame as the Planet X Sportive would you know?

Andy140

Hi giant mancp, its a level one double-triple butted frame the link below should explain. It looks similar to the Planet X sportive. I got mine from previous importer (may have been his last) as planet x is new venture. Had the choice re Alpha Q fork but opted for Ritchie WCS carbon
http://lynskeyperformance.com/roadcustomlevel1.php

giant_man

Nice to see some pics Andy, looks very tasty in link. Interesting about the choice of fork too.

Andy140

Hope to get photos taken and posted in a couple of days - work has teken taken me away for short period

Burghley

Hi

The incredible differences in price between the various Titanium frame retailers (how many actually make the frames themselves?) cannot be explained by the quality of the welding alone!

One Merlin frame costs twice as much as the combined cost of my three XACD Ti frames, and two of these were custom made to my specification.

I can't tell you how good the Merlin is to ride (because I haven't ridden one), but I can tell you about the enjoyment I have got out of riding my Ti bikes.

My guess is that ALL Ti frames are enjoyable to ride if the geometry is OK. As previously said, the law of diminishing returns applies to whatever bit of cycling kit you buy.

Rgds

Pete

paul_smith_srcc

Many of the large brands concentrate on R & D and not manufacture, Specialized for example are one of the market leaders yet they have everything made for them. This is in part not only because to buy from Taiwan and China is often cheaper than where designers are based, but just as important it is of a high quality, they can normally do what the designers ask of them and to a high standard.

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

Burghley wrote:

Hi

The incredible differences in price between the various Titanium frame retailers (how many actually make the frames themselves?) cannot be explained by the quality of the welding alone!

One Merlin frame costs twice as much as the combined cost of my three XACD Ti frames, and two of these were custom made to my specification.

I can't tell you how good the Merlin is to ride (because I haven't ridden one), but I can tell you about the enjoyment I have got out of riding my Ti bikes.

My guess is that ALL Ti frames are enjoyable to ride if the geometry is OK. As previously said, the law of diminishing returns applies to whatever bit of cycling kit you buy.

Rgds

Pete

giant_man

Andy140 wrote:

Hi giant mancp, its a level one double-triple butted frame the link below should explain. It looks similar to the Planet X sportive. I got mine from previous importer (may have been his last) as planet x is new venture. Had the choice re Alpha Q fork but opted for Ritchie WCS carbon
http://lynskeyperformance.com/roadcustomlevel1.php

Looking at both bikes now, I'm wondering if the Planet X is indeed double or triple butted at all, anyone reading between the lines know?

daveplanetx

Theres no ned to read between the lines - all our (planet x or on-one) lynskey made bikes , with the possible exception of the ti pompino will be butted (not finalised yet).