Wheels - to Upgrade to Shamal Ultras or not?

Monowai

Currently riding Xero Lite XR1s and fancy an upgrade for my 'race' wheels. Considering the Campag Shamal Ultras or some handbuilt Paul Hewitt wheels - Tune Hubs on Ambrosio Excellight rims. Still not sure how much improvement I will see over my current wheelset - is it really worth the £550 either would cost over whhat I currently ride? :?

terongi

no

wildmoustache

Ihad the xeros and sold them as they were too flexy and fragile.

In my stable I now have shml uLtras and think they are a fair bit better. They don't feel any lighter but do feel much stiffer.

APIII

I've no idea, but the Tune/Extrallight combo looks the biz.

gkerr4

go for the shamals and don't be afraid to admit that you did it cos they lok amazing!!

(which they do and you really should get them...)

Kléber

The Tune hubs are good but the cassette body can wear, it seems to be made from soft alloy. Think about DT 240s, or better still the 190s, although the price increase for these is not justified really. Get CX-Ray spokes, these are strong, light and aero and form the basis for any performance wheel. Even Campagnolo Neutrons use the same spokes. The Shamal has thicker, less aero spokes.

FORUM EXPERT

zeros are too flexy for race wheels get the shamals you will be amazed at how good decent wheels are.

Hand made fine for training but factory wheels are now superior for racing

Pirahna

My Xeros are now on my wifes winter bike, as mentioned by everybody else they are very flexy. I've got the heavy version of the Shamal (Eurus) and they are well worth the upgrade.

Get the gold Shamals. I thought the dark silvery coloured ones looked cheap and nasty in the flesh.

simbil1

FORUM EXPERT wrote:

Hand made fine for training but factory wheels are now superior for racing

That sounds like a bit of a generalisation - I'm sure there are handbuilt wheels that are up to the job of racing.
Mind you, you are the FORUM EXPERT, so I guess you are probably right

SDP

a couple of our lads race on xeros & both are first cats...no problems at all
the newer ones with bladed spokes we have used are def stiffer than K's

compliant frame/stiff wheels/stiff stem/fiorgiving bars/flexy seat pin....TBH 90% of why people upgrade is bling factor ..not many of us generating enough Watts to find these componenets limits!

go for the TUNE hubs if you want bling ..but make sure you look after them ...items like that are not "fit & forget "....

APIII

FORUM EXPERT wrote:

zeros are too flexy for race wheels get the shamals you will be amazed at how good decent wheels are.

Hand made fine for training but factory wheels are now superior for racing

I doubt that's true. Factory wheels are arguably lower maintenance, but you still see handbuilts in the pro ranks, especially in the spring classics.

SDP

APIII wrote:

FORUM EXPERT wrote:

zeros are too flexy for race wheels get the shamals you will be amazed at how good decent wheels are.

Hand made fine for training but factory wheels are now superior for racing

I doubt that's true. Factory wheels are arguably lower maintenance, but you still see handbuilts in the pro ranks, especially in the spring classics.

agreed...have a close look at a lot of the pro's bikes..often rebuilt/handbuilt & REBADGED as a their factory bretheren..

alsop go to a prem calender or E/1/2 race & have a look at riders who do not get sponsored wheels & see what THEY CHOOSE to ride... a lot still on handbuilts..

wildmoustache

SDP wrote:

APIII wrote:

FORUM EXPERT wrote:

zeros are too flexy for race wheels get the shamals you will be amazed at how good decent wheels are.

Hand made fine for training but factory wheels are now superior for racing

I doubt that's true. Factory wheels are arguably lower maintenance, but you still see handbuilts in the pro ranks, especially in the spring classics.

agreed...have a close look at a lot of the pro's bikes..often rebuilt/handbuilt & REBADGED as a their factory bretheren..

alsop go to a prem calender or E/1/2 race & have a look at riders who do not get sponsored wheels & see what THEY CHOOSE to ride... a lot still on handbuilts..

the whole handbuilt / factory built debate is boring in the extreme.

i know that the factory wheels i buy do thousands of miles without ever going out of true, or needing any maintainence. campag wheels in particular are extraordinarily reliable IME. They're as reliable as you could reasonably wish for.

Factory builts are less consistent and depend on the builder, what mood he was in that morning etc. I've had good and bad. Generally I suspect the standard of build from (say) the campag factory is well above what the average that UK wheelbuilders churn out. that is not to say however there are not very good wheelbuilders.

Rim options are a bit limited with handbuilt as well ... though notably better in the US (not much use for most of us), but perhaps improving a bit.

by the way, when i've raced E/1/2 races the number of factory builts far outnumbers the handbuilts

aracer

Plenty of rim options for handbuilts if you're prepared to put the effort in to find them - the trouble is many shops have only ever heard of Mavic.

I suppose for me, the quality of the builder is a non-issue, since I build myself, and certainly don't have any problems with my wheels. Then again, given the difference in cost between factory wheels and equivalent handbuilts you can afford to pay for a top builder (names are often mentioned on here - I wouldn't know), rather than take a risk on the quality with somebody you don't know. Actually I'd probably be tempted to get wheels built by http://www.rouesartisanales.com/ if I was going to get wheels made by somebody else - not cheap, but he will build something quite exotic if that's what you're after (and all for lest than the cost of Shamals or Ksyriums).

I suspect you only claim to be bored because you disagree with the majority view.

wildmoustache

aracer wrote:

Plenty of rim options for handbuilts if you're prepared to put the effort in to find them - the trouble is many shops have only ever heard of Mavic.

I suppose for me, the quality of the builder is a non-issue, since I build myself, and certainly don't have any problems with my wheels. Then again, given the difference in cost between factory wheels and equivalent handbuilts you can afford to pay for a top builder (names are often mentioned on here - I wouldn't know), rather than take a risk on the quality with somebody you don't know. Actually I'd probably be tempted to get wheels built by http://www.rouesartisanales.com/ if I was going to get wheels made by somebody else - not cheap, but he will build something quite exotic if that's what you're after (and all for lest than the cost of Shamals or Ksyriums).

I suspect you only claim to be bored because you disagree with the majority view.

not convinced it's the majority view ... it's the more fervently held view for sure.

it's boring partly because lots of the wheels under discussion actually use the same, or very similar components, yet the terms in which it's debated makes it sounds like chalk and cheese. "Factory builts will fall apart at the first pothole" ... er I have a pair of cheapo shimano R540s that have been hammered across europe twice and commuted on for thousands of miles and have never needed to be trued despite have 16 spokes front and rear ...

It tends to be the handbuilt supporters who are most dogmatic. It's just another form of the shimano v campag debate, except that given the wide range available there is even less difference between the two products under discussion.

On the "good wheelbuilder" thing, by definition the chances of a good product must be higher, but i've had one set of handbuilts that went to buggery quickly, though were great once serviced I will admit

aracer

wildmoustache wrote:

it's boring partly because lots of the wheels under discussion actually use the same, or very similar components, yet the terms in which it's debated makes it sounds like chalk and cheese. "Factory builts will fall apart at the first pothole" ... er I have a pair of cheapo shimano R540s that have been hammered across europe twice and commuted on for thousands of miles and have never needed to be trued despite have 16 spokes front and rear ...

That's certainly not what anybody's saying on this thread (and not generally on this forum that I've seen). The main argument is normally that factory wheels are very poor value, which given your comments about the similar components you presumably agree with? That's not necessarily the case for all factory wheels - the ones you mention are very good value, and you will in fact find a post by me saying that somewhere round here - but then on this thread we're talking about much more expensive factory wheels, about which the same can't be said.

I reckon it's actually the factory wheels which are boring - you can get something much more original if you go handbuilt (I suspect mine may be almost unique in this country) :P

Monty Dog

A stiffer, lighter pair of wheels is wholly going to change the way you bike feels and handles - I've no experience of Xeros- but I have heard they're pretty flexy and the person that thinks they're stiffer than Ksyriums is clearly talking bull. The price comparison between a handbuilts of comparable weight to the Shamals is probably not huge - particularly if you start looking at things like CX-Ray spokes and Tune hubs and the relatively ability of a handbuilder to get the consistently high spoke tension to make them as stiff as the Shamals - I wouldn't trust the majority of shop builders to get it right either, so you are looking at the likes of Paul Hewitt or Harry Rowland if wanting handbuilts.

aracer

Monty Dog wrote:

the relatively ability of a handbuilder to get the consistently high spoke tension to make them as stiff as the Shamals

Wheel stiffness has nothing to do with spoke tension.