Newbie - Advice on bike purchase

david28

Hi all, just wondering if any kind user can point me in the right direction. At present I drive my car to work but I am thinking of buying a bike to do the commute instead. One problem - I haven't got a clue about bikes.

I have done the journey before about a year ago for a week but the pain I suffered was too much too bare (in the ass to be blunt). Being honest I did borrow a very very VERY substanded bike.

I have just started doing a bit of research about the styles of bikes out there but I thought who better to ask for help than the experts themselves. I am leaning towards a mountain bike or possibly a hybrid.

Basically I don't want to pay a bomb but I know its not gonna cost about £70. The journey should take around 45 mins there 45 mins back. I won't be riding on the road because I can get a good run of sidewalks.

My aim is comfort and not speed although I don't want to go snail speed.

P.s. does anybody know any good bike shops in Liverpool?

Look forward to your response

alfablue

Welcome David

I would go for a hybrid, not an mtb, which would be too heavy and slow, and a 45 minute journey could take 5 minutes more on an mtb, not to mention the extra effort. You don't need suspension for comfort, and the weight is an unnecessary burden, and bikes so equipped have cheaper components to accommodate suspension at a given price point. What price range are you looking at? We can make specific bike suggestions if we know.

You can expect arse ache for the first week or two however good the bike (or seat), you soon develop a tougher covering on your sit bones.

As for pavement riding, that is probably not legal unless they are shared paths or dedicated cycle paths, and riding on the pavement annoys and endangers pedestrians, puts cyclists in an even worse light, and you also have the problem of cars wiping you out as they exit driveways.

david28

About half the journey is on a dedicated cycle path and the other half wil be shared between quite roads and very wide side walks.

I was hoping of getting away with spending about £200 maximum on the bike itself. I basically want a no frills bike, one that will get me to work and back o.k.

I thought full suspension on a bike would make it more comfortable because it would take the shock away from the bumps. Is it really just the seat that matters?

alfablue

Hi David, full supsension bikes at £200 are purely dreadful, they are just toys, and pretty unfunny ones at that. They will weigh 10kg more than a proper bike and will have dreadful cheap and nasty components. A decent full suspension bike probably needs to cost over £700 (some say £1000), and even an excellent full suspension bike would be THE WORST CHOICE for commuting! They only have any value if used on serious off road riding, up and down mountains, for anything like a road, they are completely wrong, and will sap your strength and any enjoyment of cycling.

Suspension will have no effect on arse ache, either, you will get that just from sitting on the seat. Make sure your seat is set high enough so your leg is almost straight on the downstroke.

I know the shops are selling a lot of these things, but the buyers never ride anywhere far, or regularly, the bikes make sure they can't! To be honest, they are selling a "look" to people who know no better (not their fault).

Even if just getting front suspension, the suspension fork of a £200 bike will be simply dreadful, if it moves at all it is likely to be as bouncy as a bed spring, the tracking of the front wheel will be all over the shop, and they will be bloody heavy. You will get all the comfort you need from decent (but slick) tyres of medium volume (which will probably be what a hybrid has fitted).

Small ripples and bumps in the road will not be smoothed out by suspension, (just too small and fast for the fork to get moving), if you are bumpring up and down kerbs, you just raise your weight off the bars and seat and use your legs as suspension (do BMX'ers use suspension? Look what they can do!).

A half decent suspension fork will cost more than £200 on its own, and will still be a heavy beast.

Remember, just 15 years ago people like me were tackling severe mountain bike routes with rigid front forks! Now people think they need suspension in the city! It is style and marketing winning over function!!!

I cannot emphasise more strongly, don't get a front suspended (or god forbid, full suss!) bike for your purposes, and don't ever consider a front suspension bike for any purpose at £200.

Now, bikes I would suggest,

Halfords Carrera Subway, £199 (note, halfords have a bad rep for setting bikes up, but this bike is, when properly assembled, a very competent good quality bike for your needs, at a good price).

Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op Revolution Courrier £249. (I think the Courrier has the same frame as the Carrera Subway, both made by Strongman).

Specialized Globe £230 upwards.

Specialized Sirrus (a slightly more road oriented bike than the Globe, faster), £299.

(NB, the Globe and Sirrus bikes come in various levels of spec, at a wide range of prices, I have quoted the lowest spec).

There are reasonable hybrid models from Trek, Giant, Genesis (Ridgeback), Boardman (Halfords), Marin and others, but to be honest, £200 is the bare minimum for buying a bike that is actually rideable with any seriousness and hope of reliability, and the Carerra Subway would be my choice unless spending over £300 plus, only beyond this are you really going to improve on it.

You should get some free accessories for the Subway (10% of the value), apart from clothing, helmet (if you are so inclined), lock, pump and puncture kit, the one thing I would fit to the bike as a priority is mudguards. They make a big difference to comfort.

Just don't get suspension!

Shadowduck

What Alfablue said. I started out with a Revolution Courier and they're not bad if you're determined to go with something flat-barred, though ultimately I regretted buying it as I discovered the joys of a "proper" road bike and the Courier now sits at the back of the garage as a spare bike.

I'd definitely discourage pavement riding. Bike paths are at least legal but you tend to find they're strewn with gravel and broken glass, and their main occupants are suicidal ipod-wearing peds who'll step straight in front of you in blissful ignorance. Plus, as someone else mentioned, you have to watch for cars pulling out of driveways (they won't be expecting something moving at 15mph on the pavement) and stop and give way at every single side street as cycle paths have no priority over anything. PLUS they don't get gritted and are absolutely lethal in icy conditions. I used cycle paths when I first returned to cycling until I got my fitness and bike handling ability up to a point where I was willing to ride on the road, but since then I only use one very short stretch (200m-ish) to avoid a huge and very busy roundabout on my commute - the rest of the time I ignore them.

Riding on non-shared-use footpaths is just a good way of p1ss1ng people off. I'd suggest you get a copy of Cyclecraft by John Franklin and take it's advice, you'll be fine on the roads. That 200m of cycle path is the only bit of my commute I dread!

alfablue

I would tend to support what Shadowduck says about a road bike, I would much rather ride on a drop barred skinny tyred light weight road bike, but given where the OP is coming from (newby, comfort etc), maybe he will get on better initially with flat bars, but I suspect if he becomes hooked, the hybrid may well be relegated sooner or later. Question is, go for the full on road bike from the start, or ease in via a hybrid? There is no doubt that the road bike will be faster and ultimately more fun, but flat bars may offer a bit more control and visibility to a newby.

david28

All these tips are priceless. I really appreciate them. Does the 18" relate to the size of the tyes or the size of the frame. I'm 6ft 3inch and thought the bigger the better? I was considering buying it from a local independent bike store. Is this a good idea? Will they charge extra?

SBothwell

If you have a Halfords near by, pop in and see if they have any Subway 8's on sale - my local Halfords has a 2006 subway8 for about £225, which is a bargain (and I suspect may be wrongly priced, but its worth a look) - this is a good, no-nonsense commuter.

alfablue

Hi David, thanks for the appreciation.

18" will be frame size. Wheels will be either 26" (MTB) or what are called 700c (nearer 27", and used on road bikes). Hybrids can have either size, depending on the place they are on the spectrum between roadified mtb versus flat bar fast road bike.

An 18" frame size is just a guide, different brands are measured in different ways, so you cannot just have one frame size that will work for everything (its not like shoe size). The frame size is the distance beteen the bottom bracket (the bit the pedals go through) to the top of the seat tube, thats the part of the frame the seat post slots into, but this can be measured in a variety of ways.

Almost as important for sizing is "reach" - the distance between seat and handlebars, which is determined by top tube length, handlebar stem length and rise, and seat position.

THe largest frame you can fit is not necessarily the best way to go, there will b a frame size that is right (and this is where a good shop will fit you properly). (No point getting larger than you need, just excess weight). I would have thought an 18" would be too small though, I ride an 18" mtb and I'm 5'10".

Also note that the style of the bike means different frame sizes, my road bike has a 21" frame, but thats purely because the top tube is horizontal, rather thandipping on the mtb, hence the frame measures more. It actually feels identical in size.

An independent shop is much better because if it is a good one you will get excellent advice on bike choice for your needs (though some rogues will still assume everyone wants an mtb, and/or will sell what they make most on), and they should ensure the fit is just right. You should also get the bike properly set up (and this means you probably will have to wait, maybe hours or even a couple of days to collect it), and they will give you a free first service. They will also (if good) offer you lots of free advice now and in the future, and some shops have even volunteered discounts to me if they see me often. (They will probably at time of purchase, offer you free or discounted accessories if you ask, before you agree to buy).

Another thing a local bike shop (LBS) will probably do, is let you have a test ride (may have to leave credit card). Halfords just don't allow this (to**ers), they may even be reluctant to assemble the bike properly before you pay for it.

This will cost though, and you will pay more than what the chains or online shops charge, (weaker purchasing power, and better service and smaller turnover relative to overheads need to be paid for) maybe you'll have to pay a fair bit over £300 to get something as good as the Subway, but then you are paying for good service, and this could be worth it in the long term. However good the Subway is, if it is the wrong size, it will not be good). You can of course buy a halfords bike and take it to the local bike shop to set up, for a fee. Many LBS's even advertise such a service, as they know so many people buy online now. They still hope to keep you as a long term customer for accessories, future bike purchases and service.

If you can afford it, and realise you need to pay extra for the same quality bike, then the LBS is the first choice every time. Of course it needs to be a good one, most are, but if you find you aren't getting full and patient attention, or they try some flannel, walk away. You can pretty much suss them out by going for a browse and a brief chat.

If you are REALLY limited on budget, get the Subway, and deal with the issues (if any) with setup afterwards. Purely looking at the bike alone (forgetting service or setup issues) I have no doubt it is the best £200 bike you can buy.

prj45

alfablue wrote:

and even an excellent full suspension bike would be THE WORST CHOICE for commuting!

I see people every day on cheap full sus bikes, they must put 30% of their pedalling effort into making their bike go up and down like the donkey in the buckaroo game.

Still, if you want a slightly different type of workout I guess its the thing to do, a bit like riding with your brakes on.

david28

Right thats pretty much given me a good idea of what I'm after. Thanks everyone. If your interested I'll let you know what I end up with.

Cheers

Shadowduck

alfablue wrote:

Question is, go for the full on road bike from the start, or ease in via a hybrid? There is no doubt that the road bike will be faster and ultimately more fun, but flat bars may offer a bit more control and visibility to a newby.

Aye, I suppose it didn't work out too bad for me going down the hybrid-then-roadie route. I keep the hybrid in good nick as I use it as a "loaner" occasionally* for people who are thinking of starting cycling again but dithering about spending the cash - gives them chance to try out their commute without making the investment! It's also nice to know it's in the back of the garage so I can still get to work in the event of a mechanical on my main bike and I occasionally use it if I go for a ride with Darling Wifey or one of the kids (easier to just "pootle along" on than the road bike).

*David - it might be worth asking around cyclists you know or work with to see if anyone's willing to lend you something decent-ish for a few days, most cyclists have at least one spare bike. It doesn't really matter what it is, if you don't like it at least you know not to buy something similar!

alfablue

david28 wrote:

Right thats pretty much given me a good idea of what I'm after. Thanks everyone. If your interested I'll let you know what I end up with.

Cheers

yes, we're interested. Do get back to us if you get presented with some options and want some feedback before you commit.

alfablue

Shadowduck wrote:

Aye, I suppose it didn't work out too bad for me going down the hybrid-then-roadie route. I keep the hybrid in good nick as I use it as a "loaner" occasionally* for people who are thinking of starting cycling again but dithering about spending the cash - gives them chance to try out their commute without making the investment! It's also nice to know it's in the back of the garage so I can still get to work in the event of a mechanical on my main bike and I occasionally use it if I go for a ride with Darling Wifey or one of the kids (easier to just "pootle along" on than the road bike).

Yes it is good to have a spare available, got me on a quick getaway on a few occasions when I have not noticed or forgotten to do a repair. A luxury I guess, but if David does graduate quickly and needs the cash you can get reasonable prices selling on (ebay - people often seem to overbid).

david28

Hello everyone I'm all excited now. Seem to be getting somewhere. I've just been to two independent bike shops.

The first bike shop was a waste of time and tried to sell me a mountain bike for £130. The second shop I was impressed with. They showed me a hybrid Specialized Globe 2007 for £200. I also noticed a Raleigh one for £170 but never looked at it.

What do you reckon - Subway vs Globe???

alfablue

Thats a reasonable price for the Globe, £30 off, maybe I would be tempted that way given its an LBS, can you get then to fit mudguards for free?

The Globe is 24 speed so it should have a better range for hills, versus the Subway 14 speed, might be plenty, some weight saving (not significantly).

david28

I'd have a good go. I like a bit of a barter. Why mud guards and not lights or a lock. I'm not that bothered getting a bit dirty?

alfablue

david28 wrote:

I'd have a good go. I like a bit of a barter. Why mud guards and not lights or a lock. I'm not that bothered getting a bit dirty?

Well, £20 will do good mudgiards, decent lights or a lock will cost more, and I reckon they may do £20. Getting a bit dirty is fine, but if the roads are wet, after the rain, you will get soaked without mudgiards, you will get cold, miserable, get a sore bum, freezing wet feet, and a permanent brown stain up the back of your clothing. For commuting, mudguards are an essential IMHO.

Shadowduck

I'd probably also lean towards the Globe out of those two, not sure about the suspension seatpost but other than that looks pretty good. Any chance of getting test rides on both to see which you prefer the feel of? You won't go far wrong with either for that money, I'd say, pretty good choices.

I agree with alfablue about the mudguards, essential for commuting. So are lights* and a good lock or two of course, but mudguards are the hardest to fit properly so you may as well get the pros to do 'em!

*I'd suggest two sets of lights - one set on flashing to get you noticed and another set on steady so people can judge your speed and distance. Also means you're still covered if one packs in!