Struggling with the Pantani Book
Comments
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ricadus wrote : "Looks like we have our own Pantani-like character:
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/21022008/ ... ioned.html
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Yes , indeed . A good parallel ( except that I'm not aware of him ever snorting white powders ) . What a downer for today . I hope the lad gets going again ."Lick My Decals Off, Baby"0 -
Funnily enough I'm about 30 pages into this and struggling too. I agree that 'put me back on my bike' was a great and easy read in comparison - though I will perservere.0
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Keep going, its not an easy book to read, but personally I found it fascinating. The bits I like best where it switches into present tense to describe some of the races and bike stages they are superbly written I think.
Was / still am a Pantani fan. Yes I know his image is tarnished by the doping and coke, but I admire him for his spirit and the attacking way he rode and the unpredictability of the man. Seems like he cycled the way he lived his life off the bike to.
A very very messed up man, as has been said he never got the support or help he needed.0 -
fizz wrote:A very very messed up man, as has been said he never got the support or help he needed.
Messed up? Yes. As far as never getting the support or help he needed. Help is
always available if you are willing to admitt you have problems and are ready to
take the steps necessary to get it back together. I remember when he died. His mother
was quoted as saying that the cycling establishment was what killed him, or something to that effect. I doubt very seriously that the "cycling establishment" held him down and
forced him to toot lines of coke. Failed by friends and family? It would appear so.
It's a sad story but one that happens on a daily basis to many, many other
less well known people and their families. Some are able to pull it back together and
some never come back.
Dennis Noward0 -
dennisn wrote:Failed by friends and family? It would appear so.
Thats what I think. I tihnk people also exploited him for his image and being able to make money off the back of his fame. But I also think that he let them do it. But I also think he got to the point where he couldnt take anymore. Some people escape from their life in many different ways, some use drugs some use alcohol.dennisn wrote:It's a sad story but one that happens on a daily basis to many, many other
less well known people and their families. Some are able to pull it back together and
some never come back.
I know that. I just found some of the book qute heart rending. When you see it all bare and laid out in front of you like that. I've been through some dark times when I was younger I can remember how I felt.
I just think its a shame he could have been remember for his cycling, now all he is remember for is a doper who was messed up and killed himself after taking ot much coke. I also think he could have been a greater cyclist than his results show as well.0 -
Bloody footballers, that bloke always was an idiot and this just proves it.0
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giant mancp wrote:Bloody footballers, that bloke always was an idiot and this just proves it.
Bit harsh?
He was never a bright guys and he knew it. But he is probably the best player I have ever seen in the flesh and playing football, not being smart, is what he was paid and respected for.
And what is the "bloody fooballers" thing all about. You dislike all footballers?
Strange form of "collective dislike" - you should be careful of that in case it spreads to other groups of people you don't like or understand.....
Why do people not have compassion anymore. He is a fellow human being have mental problems. Perhaps self inflicted, exagerated by huge wealth when young and in the worng environment, but calling him names won't help.
Just my opinion anyway - show a bit of love you might need it back one day
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I'd go with that Markyboy.
I was reading a section of Robbie Fowlers autobiography the other day. He was saying "what do you expect when a young stupid lad gets heaps of cash thrown at him and is put up on a pedestal". He admits that he was an idiot but its not surprising when you realise these lads are just normal kids put into a very strange world. It must look like paradise at first but not everyone can handle it. Gazza was a gifted footballer who was deeply flawed. Its sad however way you look at it. Same with Joey Barton really, the environment he is in is not healthy for his personality. Thats why people like that need the right people around them to steer them right. Pantani was the same.
Stick with the book btw. Its a good read when you get through it all.0 -
giant mancp wrote:Bloody footballers, that bloke always was an idiot and this just proves it.
I wish we had someone of Gazzas standard in the England squad nowadays..."A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
Heavymental wrote:I'd go with that Markyboy.
I was reading a section of Robbie Fowlers autobiography the other day. He was saying "what do you expect when a young stupid lad gets heaps of cash thrown at him and is put up on a pedestal". He admits that he was an idiot but its not surprising when you realise these lads are just normal kids put into a very strange world. It must look like paradise at first but not everyone can handle it. Gazza was a gifted footballer who was deeply flawed. Its sad however way you look at it. Same with Joey Barton really, the environment he is in is not healthy for his personality. Thats why people like that need the right people around them to steer them right. Pantani was the same.
Stick with the book btw. Its a good read when you get through it all.
Barton is a complete P**** who doesn't deserve to play pro sport. Barton would probably have been in jail more in his 20 something yrs if he hadn't been a footballer. Not at all like Gazza or Pantani.0 -
Don't get me wrong. I'm no fan of Barton but I can see that he's a troubled soul, or someone not suited to the limelight. People expect sports stars to be model citizens but the truth is they've got just the same weaknesses as you or I or any other person on the street. Mix in a load of cash, alot of attention, alot of pressure and the tendency to be in situations where things can blow up and you have a recipe for becoming a villain. At least he realises his mistakes...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 939699.stm
Whenever a story appears in the press about a footballer being in trouble I always think that as a footballer they should just stay at home, keep their heads down, go to training, be humble and thank their lucky stars they're in the position they are. Unfortunately, most young lads from the demographic most footballers come from aren't keen to be sat at home staying out of trouble. They want to go out on the sauce like the rest of the country but being a high profile footballer means thats a bad idea. Thats why having the right friends and family around is important, especially if they recognise the frailties of the individual. In the case of Pantani how different could it have been if he'd been in stable relationship rather than the strange, strained relationship he had with Christina (sp?). Its the same with pop stars really, hence we see the self destruction of Britney and Amy Winehouse.
I saw an interview with Barton somewhere and he was saying about how he'd been at a bar and some rival fans had been spitting at him and making comments. They'd moved to another bar and they followed and inevitably it ended in a scuffle. Its the kind of incident that makes you think why bother going out at all. Certain personalities are always going to flip out in certain situations. Quite often it seems to be those who have something a bit different. Witness Cantonas flying kick, Zizous headbutt, George Best, Gazza, Rooney. Its sad really. Such talent, tainted.0 -
You could always read Michael Hutchinson's The Hour, cracking little read.0
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I started reading the book in October. It is not what I would call a "page turner". I'm still reading it slowly but it is hard work.
Other books like "Put me Back on My Bike", "The Hour" and "In Search Of Robert Millar" are much better.
It does show how much cheating there must have been with centrifuges for checking blood levels and how heamacrit levels on a load of top italian cyclists varied dramatically.
All looked after by Dr Ferrari. Makes you wonder about other peoples blood levels.0 -
By saying that other books are better do you mean easier to read? This is a brilliantly reseaarched and written book but it deals with a very difficult subject in tackling the life and death of someone who was admired by many people. The sections dealing with the doping and then Pantani's descent and ultimate dath appear to me to be acurate and believable - but I don't see how Rendell could make it an easy read. Stick with the book - I think its a great insight,0
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I'm not a big fan of the book - it is well researched and informative in the sense that all the facts are there but I didn't find it entertaining and I didn't feel that it gave much of a feel for what Pantani was really like as a person.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Agree it is hard going but worth it at the end - although I found it hard to keep up with all the people in it right up to the end...renard wrote:I started reading the book in October. It is not what I would call a "page turner". I'm still reading it slowly but it is hard work.
Other books like "Put me Back on My Bike", "The Hour" and "In Search Of Robert Millar" are much better.
It does show how much cheating there must have been with centrifuges for checking blood levels and how heamacrit levels on a load of top italian cyclists varied dramatically.
All looked after by Dr Ferrari. Makes you wonder about other peoples blood levels.
My favourite cycling books (all of which were easier to get on with);
1. Put me back on my bike
2. Rough Ride
3. Team on the Run
Books that have driven me nuts
1. 23 days in July (500 pages of Lance Armstrong worship)
2. Death of Marco Pantani - (too much information gets in in the way of the story)
3. Tour de France - Graham Fife (starts slowly and stays that way)0 -
Totally agree with Turkeytickler about 23 days in July. All it done was tell Armstrong fans what they believe anyway.
Death of Marco Pantani is a tough book on two levels. One, it is as someone else has already stated more like a medical journal than a sports book in parts, and two
Its a fairly depressing read if you look at it from the point of view of what he done to himself. Either way it's no classic read for cycling fans0 -
Well, I think the Rendell book gives plenty of insight into what he was like as a person tbh. It also addresses the fact that that there was doubt about whether Pantani doped or not so seeks to present the facts as accuratetly as possible and in the right amount of detail to leave the reader in no doubt about the truth. In a fully inclusive story of Pantani there is no point in skirting around that issue because the "Did he? Didn't he?" was a defining question of his career and legacy. I also think there's some classic descritions of cycling and Pantanis particular style. It strikes me that there probably wasn't alot to go on for Rendell as far as paiting a picture of the man. Pantani wasn't like Tommy Simpson who was gregarious and well liked. he was an insular and quiet character who let his riding present his personality so I don't think it was ever possible to write a feel good book about him. As it says on the back of the book. It is written with "startling clarity" which is maybe a bit too cold for some people. I found the style suited the story and the tragedy.
There are plenty of feelgood cycling books out there but Pantanis story was never going to be an easy read. Thats maybe why Manuela Ronchis version of the story is so rubbish.0 -
I agree, this book was really tough going, just like Rendell's other book, A significant other. The only good bits of that book were the bits told by Pena.
Also agree with Turkeyticklers top tips. I would add The Hour by Michael Hutchinson to the list too.
Am just about to pick up The Rider by Krabbe.0 -
Aaah The Rider - great read.
I really liked the Pantani book but it is a saddening read as it destroys any notion of a 'clean' sport as such. Don't get me wrong, I know guys like Pantani and other heroes really suffer on their bikes and are phenomenal athletes, but the chem stats tell another side to the story.
And although people can point to Armstrong never failing a dope test, you have to wonder how he could go toe to toe with one of the most doped riders of all time and match him all the way. Either LA was a pure freak or maybe there's something else going on.
But for me the really interesting thing was the news that EPO is not a 'fair' drug in that it benefited some 'lesser' riders over their more talented counterparts. Thus teams started selecting riders not on their natural ability but on their reaction to EPO.
In this way, we can see why the idea of creating a level playing field and allowing everyone to take EPO etc is bogus.0 -
Aaah The Rider - great read.
I really liked the Pantani book but it is a saddening read as it destroys any notion of a 'clean' sport as such. Don't get me wrong, I know guys like Pantani and other heroes really suffer on their bikes and are phenomenal athletes, but the chem stats tell another side to the story.
And although people can point to Armstrong never failing a dope test, you have to wonder how he could go toe to toe with one of the most doped riders of all time and match him all the way. Either LA was a pure freak or maybe there's something else going on.
But for me the really interesting thing was the news that EPO is not a 'fair' drug in that it benefited some 'lesser' riders over their more talented counterparts. Thus teams started selecting riders not on their natural ability but on their reaction to EPO.
In this way, we can see why the idea of creating a level playing field and allowing everyone to take EPO etc is bogus.0
