Sub 5 upgrades

chrisp

Right... this year I'm going to do it. I'm going to get properly back into MTBing.

Whilst the rider needs a lot of refurbishment I figure the bike could do with a little too. It's a sound, but 'well used' 2003 Sub 5 Deore in standard setup (Deore hydraulic discs, Manitou Black Comp 80-100mm fork, Roc Shox SID shock and Deore mechs/shifters). I've never been espeically impressed with the fork so that's the first thing I'd like to swap (fox float perhaps?) and the Deore brakes don't have much feel/modulation compared to my old Giant MPH discs (also managed to overheat them once) so I'm thinking they might go. Finally, I was wondering if there was anything else worth doing to 'freshen' the bike up?

Budget is flexible, but I don't want to spend huge amounts unless a very average rider like me will be able to feel the difference! So, over to you.... if it was your bike, what would you do to modernise it?

zero303

I'm guessing it's just general trails riding that you want to do?

You'll find that fork recommendations for the 100mm range from most will be the Rock Shox Reba from Merlin for £200 - not a better fork for the money anywhere. The current Orange 5 has come a long way since yours and the Fox Float just isn't suited to the geometry of the '03 one so avoid.

Rear shocks have come a long way but you've not mentioned any displeasure with yours so as long as it works that's fine.

Brakes - again Merlin, Formula Oro K18s are only £129 for a pair. Upping the front rotor size goes a long way to improving brakes. Check you don't need new pads or that they've been contaminated with oil, it might be that your old brakes are fine!

If the bike saw a lot of use before, new chain, cassette and gear cables will go a long way to freshening things up - if you're not up to it, a basic service from a decent and reputable bike shop will do nicely!

zero303

Hehe, found this:

http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/2003bikes/sub5.html

Looks like you can go up to 125mm on the front if you were so inclined!

ride_whenever

RS reba forks, formula or hope brakes new tyres (if not wheels)

chrisp

zero303 wrote:

Hehe, found this:

http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/2003bikes/sub5.html

Looks like you can go up to 125mm on the front if you were so inclined!

It is indeed for general trail stuff - occasional trips to Wales and so on.

130mm seems to be the standard mid travel fork, I presume an extra 5mm wouldn't ruin things (over the quoted 125mm)?

The brakes have gone through 3 sets of pads and none have been great. Power is addequate for most things (although as mentioned they did fade on one occasion), but the real issue is a lack of feel or modulation. The brakes on my old bike were almost telepathic in comparison.

I wasn't aware that Rock Shox were known for their forks, but I am a bit out of date - I'll investigate the Reba. Cheers.

edit: The Revelation looks like an interesting prospect - http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=13119

zero303

Rock Shox have always been at the forefront of the fork market - since SRAM bought them though they've been extra sorted!

RE: the 130mm, I expect your frame is out of warranty so no worries there - being a U-Turn model the Revelation will let you try different amounts of travel anyway and it's a popular fork!

Deffo change the brakes if that's the case

ride_whenever mentioned new tyres and maybe wheels, some light weight folding tyres and a custom built wheelset from merlin (such as a Hope Pro II based set) could breath tons of new life into the old girl as well!

Of course, we're into the realms of £600+ if you do all of the above :roll:

chrisp

zero303 wrote:

Rock Shox have always been at the forefront of the fork market - since SRAM bought them though they've been extra sorted!

RE: the 130mm, I expect your frame is out of warranty so no worries there - being a U-Turn model the Revelation will let you try different amounts of travel anyway and it's a popular fork!

Deffo change the brakes if that's the case

ride_whenever mentioned new tyres and maybe wheels, some light weight folding tyres and a custom built wheelset from merlin (such as a Hope Pro II based set) could breath tons of new life into the old girl as well!

Of course, we're into the realms of £600+ if you do all of the above :roll:

Still a lot cheaper than a decent new full susser.

The first concern is the forks. How do you reckon the Revelation would compare to the Fox Float or Talas? What drives the extra cost?

zero303

The Fox badge... :P

There is a certain premium image attached to fox forks and while they are often better than cheaper but related forks, some of what you are paying for is badge IMO. (I have Fox Floats and love them but they were a stupidly cheap upgrade offer at the time of purchase so bit of a no brainer).

If you want a Fox fork, steer away from the 32 Floats - 140mm will just be wrong on the bike and risk breaking it), you could run a Talas at 120mm or really splash out on a Fox F-Series 120mm! Thing is, the Revs are a great fork, can be had for around £80 cheaper than the basic Talas (Rev 426 Air U-Turn from Stif), actually has more features and doesn't weigh any more than the Fox.

I'm a Fox owner and love them, only because the deal was too good to pass though. If I was buying off the peg right now, I wouldn't be so quick to choose them. Where are the Rev owners???

Chaka Ping

Here's a Revelation owner!

I've got a Fox F series on one bike and a Rev on the other. Fox is plusher and took much less adjustment to get right - but now I've got the Rev sorted I'm increasingly happy with it. Seems to improve with every ride!

Looks like it'd be a good match for that frame too.

As for brakes, there are loads of options and I plan to get a pair of the Formulas mentioned above myself.

But if you liked your Giant MPHs, I'm sure you can pick up a set of them at a much lower price if you keep an eye on ebay/classifieds. There's a set on my wife's XTC and I'm always impressed by how powerful they are. If I were doing a budget build I'd definitely consider a pair.

chrisp

My MPHs were on an XTC as well - I don't know if they work as well with a slightly beefier bike? Certainly something like that would be good.

Hmm, so the Rock Shox forks seem to come out quite well. I'm sure most modern forks would be a decent improvement on a base spec 2003 Manitou, so based on what I've heard about the revs they may well be the ones to go for.

In idiot proof terms, what setup procedure did you use? My current forks have rebound adjustment and absolutely nothing else!

zero303

If you order from a decent LBS they will help you find a good baseline setup... Sometimes the manual or the manufacturers websites have tuning tips too!

Chaka Ping

I pumped the positive and negative air to the manufacturers recommendattions and rode it around for a few weeks, unhappy with the way it was so stiff.

Then I spent a while experimenting with different amounts of pos and neg air, eventually finding that more negative than positive air gave the fork a much plusher action.

I'm quite lightweight though, many owners say they have more pos air - as is recommended.

The rebound dial is easy to set up right. The 'motion control' damping is also adjustable on my forks, but easy to get right by ride feel.