Sportive bikes

The good doctor

I recently had a brief chat about sportive bikes whilst in a bike shop, in particular their suitability for those looking for a more relaxed riding postiiton and I was shown a specialised roubaix as an example.
Can anyone outline the benefits of sportive style bikes and tell me of any other makes and models that may spring to mind please.

Thanks

John

redddraggon

Cannondale Synapse range

Bianchi C2C range

Can't think of any others ATM.

Sportive bikes tend to have taller headtubes and a less aggressive position for the rider - more upright and comfortable.

paul_smith_srcc

Sportive bikes are generally set up a bit more with comfort in mind, so as well as lower gearing many have a higher front end and some even a more relaxed head tube. The higher head tube allows a slightly more comfortable riding position, the shallower head angle will also make the bike feel more comfortable at the front end. Although most have lower gearing it should still high enough for fast high mileage cruising.

This is now such a large market that even the large manufacturers like Trek and Specialized (as well as those redddraggon mentioned) have bikes set up for this style of riding, Trek have some of their Madone range set up like this as indeed do Specialized who have their Roubaix ranges. Those two examples like many from the larger well known manufacturers have them set up as near race bike style as they can and they make ideal Sportive bikes, especially if you want to feel like a racer. So popular is this type of bike now with Specialized for example their Roubaix range even out sells their Tarmac model, which is their full on race bike range.

So near is the performance to a race bike that some pro's use them as race bikes, especially when the road surface is poor and they also want a bit more comfort, like in Paris-Roubaix for example, hence the reason Specialized naming a range called Roubaix, as some of their team use that model in that race, even though they will also have the Tarmac model available. The performance gap between their Sportive and Full on race bike range is even smaller with Trek, the Madone and the Madone Pro share a more similar geometry when compared to the differences between the Specialized Roubaix and Tarmac

If you want something a bit more weather proof and perhaps a bit more robust then the smaller Titanium specialists like Van Nicholas Yukon, Engima Etape, Sunday and Burls are worth considering, the models shown will all have a shallower head angle, not only for comfort but also in part to reduce toe overlap when a mudguard is fitted, the shallower head angle also improves stability, especially when carrying luggage on the rear, which all those bikes can do by design, carrying luggage on a full on race bike geometry can effect the handling to the extent the bike can shimmy at high speeds. Although these bikes have a load carrying capacity with the facililty to take guards and as such can used be used for light touring, they also are an ideal choice for someone riding Sportives

All the Titanium specialists also have a series of bikes that are more like the Madone/Roubaix race style bikes, that as such can also be set up along the same Sportive lines

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

The good doctor wrote:

I recently had a brief chat about sportive bikes whilst in a bike shop, in particular their suitability for those looking for a more relaxed riding postiiton and I was shown a specialised roubaix as an example.
Can anyone outline the benefits of sportive style bikes and tell me of any other makes and models that may spring to mind please.

Thanks

John

mercsport

CW did a 4 model 'sportive bike test' this week . A steel Casati ; A titanium Litespeed ; a Trek Madone and a Specialized Roubaix . I think it was a toss up between the Specialized and the Trek at the end . Although I suspect CW's impartiality a little , as that blonde haired Specialized Europe rep . - y'know , the lanky blonde haired guy that's featured a lot in CW in recent months , cover shots and so on - was in on the action testing'em all out .
As I'm a titanium and Litespeed nut I was disappointed that Litespeed's beast was condemned to last place . I confess that it's a particularly ugly creation to be sure .
Oh well , no matter .

paul_smith_srcc

I would imagine the looks had something to do with it, the Litespeed Sportive has I think for many has a look that has visibly been focused to much on comfort over performance with a very high front end, where as the Audax styling that the Titanium Van Nicholas, Engima, Sunday and Burls still look quite racey in comparison.

If the Litespeed Sportive had larger clearance for larger tyres it would however be very popular as a more focused specific tourer. As it is it looks like a tourer yet aimed at faster sportive riding, which for a few simply doesn't work, there is often customer resistance to bikes that just don't look quite right.

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

mercsport wrote:

CW did a 4 model 'sportive bike test' this week . A steel Casati ; A titanium Litespeed ; a Trek Madone and a Specialized Roubaix . I think it was a toss up between the Specialized and the Trek at the end . Although I suspect CW's impartiality a little , as that blonde haired Specialized Europe rep . - y'know , the lanky blonde haired guy that's featured a lot in CW in recent months , cover shots and so on - was in on the action testing'em all out .
As I'm a titanium and Litespeed nut I was disappointed that Litespeed's beast was condemned to last place . I confess that it's a particularly ugly creation to be sure .
Oh well , no matter .

mercsport

I might be a little off-thread here , but what's the difference between an audax and a sportive ? Or should that read 'Sportif ' ?
My CTC membership lapsed decades ago , in an age when ' sportive ' hadn't entered our crowded lexicon .

alfablue

I think that an audax may have rack mounts, have greater tyre and mudguard clearance, maybe further relaxed geometry, more likely to be steel framed, but they are probably not too dissimilar.

paul_smith_srcc

They are quite close, Sportive is often a faster event, almost a race, where as an Audax has less focus on speed. Bikes that are set up as Audax specific generally have guards and rack and the frame is more of a robust material like steel or as linked to above Titanium.

Sportive bikes are generally a bit more race like with race bike clearances and race bike appearance and made of the same materials, carbon being a common material used for the high end bikes.

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

mercsport wrote:

I might be a little off-thread here , but what's the difference between an audax and a sportive ? Or should that read 'Sportif ' ?
My CTC membership lapsed decades ago , in an age when ' sportive ' hadn't entered our crowded lexicon .

mercsport

O.K. , thanks to you both for that .
Is there not a strict definition , or is your summation that a sportive is more of a race , - it ?
Only curious .

Ah ! quick edit here . Just read your post again . Yes , it comes back to me now . If I recall , an obligation to enter an audax is that your bike complies with the reg's , such as mudguards and other unsightly stuff . And a sportive is more a case of ' run-what-you-brung ' . Relaxed !

paul_smith_srcc

One of the most popular Sportive events is the L'Étape du Tour, essentially a stage of the Tour De France, an Audax event may well be organised over the same kind of distances and even longer (and shorter) but the riders are less likely try to ride as fast as many do in a Sportive.

Some will ride a Sportive like an Audax by riding at a steady pace, where as most do not ride an Audax like a Sportive.

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

mercsport wrote:

O.K. , thanks to you both for that .
Is there not a strict definition , or is your summation that a sportive is more of a race , - it ?
Only curious .

alfablue

Audax events are over a set distance (it is about long distance riding), you have to average a speed between two limits, but it is definitely not a race between individuals, more of a personal endurance thing. I think actually racing is prohibited on them. Sportives are races. Lots of info on Audax UK. Mudguards, lights, maps, and probably saddle or rack top bags tend to be used / required. Audax are carried out on all sorts of bikes, tourers, mtb's, probably sportive and more race oriented bikes, and of course purpose made Audax bikes which are really lightweight tourers (mine won't tolerate a full pannier load for example, the frame is too lightly built and flexes from the bottom bracket when I have tried).

I have never done an audax, but my audax bike is super comfy and reasonably fast for day rides, and works well as a commuter too.

mercsport

Once again , thanks to you both and for the link to Audax UK and clearing all that up .

In essence then , you've still got to pedal ?

Cheers

The good doctor

Thanks v much for the very comprehensive & useful replies.

Monty Dog

Blond haired Specialized rep?? Do you mean Tim Elverson, member of VC Meudon and Elite cat rider? Tim only started cycling about 3 years ago - going from 4th cat to Elite in a season! Being a former European motocross champion means he knows a thing about 2 wheels - and don't try and take him on in a sprint!

Lagavulin

mercsport wrote:

CW did a 4 model 'sportive bike test' this week . A steel Casati...

Thought that Casati Laser looked lovely! 8)

mercsport

" Blond haired Specialized rep?? Do you mean Tim Elverson, member of VC Meudon and Elite cat rider?"

I don't know . Do I ?
Am I right in thinking he's in the pay of Speciallized in Europe ?
I seem to recall an issue of CW when he majored on the cover ( ..most weeks actually ) whilst he wrote up a recce of this years L'etape inside , wherein his connection to the US company was mentioned I think . Hence the questioning of his impartiality re. Speciallized . He looks straight enough but we've got to ask the question don't we ?
He's a good looking lad for sure , and makes a for a good picture compared to the usual bleached white and blue veined cadaverous northern European that normally make the cover of CW . Interesting to learn that he majored in motocross .

Thought that Casati Laser looked lovely!

Agreed They all looked great 'cept for the Litespeed !

gkerr4

you're getting him confused with Mike Cotty - the cannondale brand rep for the UK - always pictured on a white cannondale with the barloworld kit on.

edit - forgot to mention - yes you are right - the lightspeed is hideous!!!

John Stevenson

Is it me, or is the hair-splitting differentiation between audax and sportive bikes here rather like the way the mountain bike side of cycling has a new marketing buzzword for each 0.75in of suspension travel?

I also don't buy the notion that a more upright road bike is more comfortable. For me at least, a properly set up road bike is what's comfortable and that doesn't mean one with a high handlebar - I get back and shoulder pain from such bikes and am comfier in a lower position.

Horses for courses, of course, but it's important not to just buy in to what the bike industry says is a sportive or an audax bike but to figure out what best suits your own fit & position needs.

meagain

Are not Giant SCRs in this category also?

wildmoustache

John has got it right I'd say.

If a sportive bike fits you then fine ... or alternatively perhaps you want to work on your flexibility a bit???

I think they look hideous and don't like the handling as much as a bike with a shorter headtube so wouldn't touch them, but i'm sure they're great frames if they fit you right.

it's basically "a road bike for the less flexible rider".

sloboy

In my view, bike requirements for "race" and "sportive" overlap and for "sportive" and "audax" overlap, with the niches being defined by distance, level of support and what value there is in "just finishing". So, some of the monster audaxes (e.g. London-Edinburgh-London at about 1400km) will say something about durability that's a bit different from trying to get round a 100mile route in your local hills with support stations every 30 miles.

So a sportive will be around 100 miles, and therefore you have to be comfortable enough for a good few hours. You'll see a number of bikes like the Spesh Roubaix and the Cervelo RS coming out with higher headtubes and longer chainstays compared with the Tarmac and the R3. You might also expect to see a good deal of trail to give stable handling. For mid range sizes, the headtubes aren't enormous - maybe 20mm longer than the race equivalent, so most likely will just mean a given rider uses fewer spacers, but the change in chainstay length from about 405mm to about 410-415mm is supposed to make quite a bit of difference.

One thing you sometimes see on some backed-off race bikes is shorter top tubes (like in the Look 585 Optimum geom). I don't really get that, as I tend to find that riding shorter makes me want to go a bit lower.

sloboy

wildmoustache wrote:

John has got it right I'd say.

If a sportive bike fits you then fine ... or alternatively perhaps you want to work on your flexibility a bit???

I think they look hideous and don't like the handling as much as a bike with a shorter headtube so wouldn't touch them, but i'm sure they're great frames if they fit you right.

it's basically "a road bike for the less flexible rider".

I saw a review recently of how much saddle/bars drop some of the great names from history rode with. Indurain in particular seems to have ridden with his bars well up. Maybe he had short arms.

redddraggon

sloboy wrote:

wildmoustache wrote:

John has got it right I'd say.

If a sportive bike fits you then fine ... or alternatively perhaps you want to work on your flexibility a bit???

I think they look hideous and don't like the handling as much as a bike with a shorter headtube so wouldn't touch them, but i'm sure they're great frames if they fit you right.

it's basically "a road bike for the less flexible rider".

I saw a review recently of how much saddle/bars drop some of the great names from history rode with. Indurain in particular seems to have ridden with his bars well up. Maybe he had short arms.

Marco Pantani liked a taller headtube on his bike, because of his climbing from the drops (I believe).

wildmoustache

redddraggon wrote:

sloboy wrote:

wildmoustache wrote:

John has got it right I'd say.

If a sportive bike fits you then fine ... or alternatively perhaps you want to work on your flexibility a bit???

I think they look hideous and don't like the handling as much as a bike with a shorter headtube so wouldn't touch them, but i'm sure they're great frames if they fit you right.

it's basically "a road bike for the less flexible rider".

I saw a review recently of how much saddle/bars drop some of the great names from history rode with. Indurain in particular seems to have ridden with his bars well up. Maybe he had short arms.

Marco Pantani liked a taller headtube on his bike, because of his climbing from the drops (I believe).

I doubt it was as tall as some of the big sportif headtubes ... but in any case I find there to a disconnect between hands and front wheel with a tall headtube. the bike doesn't turn into corners as precisely and feels less planted. Marcel Wurst said a similar thing recently reivewing one sportif bike - can't remember which.

I also wonder for some people whether it isn't just better to get a slighter short head tube and use a couple of spacers so they have more scope to adjust their position later on - sportif bikes are often sold to those who are new and relatively unused to cycling long distances on a bike, but who will get more supple over time.

portuguese mike

I do tend to think that the idea of a 'sportive' oriented bike is a bit of a marketing ploy. After all 'race' bikes are designed to be ridden for several hours a day, several days a week. a properly set up road bike should be perfectly comfortable for all day rides for most people.

mercsport

....... continuing on with this thread within a thread :

" you're getting him confused with Mike Cotty - the cannondale brand rep for the UK - always pictured on a white cannondale with the barloworld kit on. "

Yes ! That's the fella . Our hero on a 'white charger'.
It's a Speciallized cover every week near enough on CW . It makes me wonder , naturally enough , whether they're grasping the Speciallized 'shilling' or whether it's coincidence . Either way it's great publicity for Speciallized .

Edit : Speciallized ? ... 1 : did I spell that right ? 2 : ...oh , so he's the Cannondale rep . is he !! ? :oops: 3 : my thoughts along the lines of impropriety are groundless . 4 : I should keep my copies of CW to check facts before giving them away .