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Bush: 7/7 bombs families would back terror torture

spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
edited March 2008 in Campaign
Britain is accused of being a "soft touch" for terrorists in a damning report while George Bush suggested the families of London's 7/7 bombing victims would back torture techniques on suspects.

The US President hinted politicians were out of touch with the public's desire for tough action in the war on terror at the same time as the report by the Royal United Services Institute criticised the UK's vulnerability to attack.

The RUSI urged ministers to "abandon flabby and bogus strategic thinking" which had allowed multi-culturalism to fragment British identity.

RUSI's warning against putting the rights of terrorists above the need to defeat al Qaeda came days after an Algerian pilot suspected of links to the 9/11 attacks was given the go-ahead for compensation.

In a further blow to Labour's terrorism laws, five Muslim men had their convictions for alleged plotting of terror activity quashed this week. The RUSI report today called for a radical shakeup of Government to take away oversight of security away from "short -term party politics".

"The UK presents itself as a target, as a fragmenting, post-Christian society, increasingly divided about interpretations of its history, about its national aims, its values and in its political identity. By contrast, those who refuse to integrate into British society have a firm self-image. We look like a soft touch. We are indeed a soft touch, from within and without." President Bush, in a wide-ranging interview with BBC World News America last night, said that relatives of those killed and injured in the 2005 London bus and Tube bombings would "understand" his own hard line on terror.

He said: "I suspect the families of those victims understand the nature of killers. And, so, what people gotta understand is that we'll make decisions based upon law. We're a nation of law."

The US President made his claim to defend "waterboarding", an interrogation method that simulates drowning and which has been used against Guantanamo Bay inmates. The CIA technique was yesterday declared illegal by the US Senate, but Mr Bush said he would veto the bill.

"To the critics, I ask them this: when we, within the law, interrogate and get information that protects ourselves and possibly others in other nations to prevent attacks, which attack would they have hoped that we wouldn't have prevented?

"And so, the United States will act within the law. We'll make sure professionals have the tools necessary to do their job within the law."

The President stressed America still occupied the "moral high ground" in the face of international pressure over measures used in the war on terror.

He also said he was "pleased" with progress in Iraq but spoke of the difficulty he faced when he decided to commit more troops as part of the surge strategy.

President Bush also urged China to "do more to relieve the suffering in Darfur" but said he would attend the Olympic Games this summer

Torture is Good?


If its such a good method of getting the truth, then perhaps as part of the hustings for ALL elections, the prospective politicians should be tortured to find out exactly what they intend to do


We could use it at Prime Ministers Question time each week in the House of Commons as well
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  • meagainmeagain Posts: 2,774
    "...when we, within the law, interrogate and get information...." (my italics). So which law exactly is torture "within"? Texas I suppose. And...Iran, China (it's alright, I've not been picked for the Olympics) and oh lots of other nice places....
    d.j.
    "Cancel my subscription to the resurrection."
  • ParkeyParkey Posts: 303
    Yes. After all, everyone knows that the groups of people who hate you will stop hating you and go away if you kick them hard enough.

    I'm glad this man's remaining term in office is now measured in months.
    "A recent study has found that, at the current rate of usage, the word 'sustainable' will be worn out by the year 2015"
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    meagain wrote:
    "...when we, within the law, interrogate and get information...." (my italics). So which law exactly is torture "within"? Texas I suppose. And...Iran, China (it's alright, I've not been picked for the Olympics) and oh lots of other nice places....

    Its like those who point out that after he was elected to power in Germany, Hitler never broke the law ( the fact he changed the law to legalise what he did is irrelevant)
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  • meagainmeagain Posts: 2,774
    Aye, "legal" is an infinitely moveable definition. And more closely linked to "might" than to "right".
    d.j.
    "Cancel my subscription to the resurrection."
  • iainmentiainment Posts: 992
    If its such a good method of getting the truth, then perhaps as part of the hustings for ALL elections, the prospective politicians should be tortured to find out exactly what they intend to do


    We could use it at Prime Ministers Question time each week in the House of Commons as well[/quote]

    I'm warming to you on this one.
    Old hippies don't die, they just lie low until the laughter stops and their time comes round again.
    Joseph Gallivan
  • ParkeyParkey Posts: 303
    I would agree that at present our government has this amazing (although expensive) skill of annoying lots of people without actually doing anything.
    "A recent study has found that, at the current rate of usage, the word 'sustainable' will be worn out by the year 2015"
  • It may be because I have not paid enough attention but I still do not know why al Qaeda have decided to attack us in the first instance. We debate this and that but if someone attacks another there is reason for it. So why?
  • Because we represent all they hate. Democracy, Christianity, Women who have roles in society outside of the kitchen & bedroom and we've thrown them out of Spain, so reducing the area of the Caliphate.
    Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.
  • NoclueNoclue Posts: 679
    Because we represent all they hate. Democracy, Christianity, Women who have roles in society outside of the kitchen & bedroom and we've thrown them out of Spain, so reducing the area of the Caliphate.

    So it wouldn't have anything to do with a foreign policy that supports countrys that blatantly ignore UN resolutions (Israel), illegaly invade a soverign muslim nation (Iraq) or that blindly supports the USA in anything it does no matter how illegal or hypocritical. I think the issues of democracy, christianity and womens rights come way down the list of many muslims pet hates.
  • Although I like the idea of these murdering scum being tortured I find it hard to see how it would lead to useful information. Other than in a case of a simple question like for example "where is the bomb making equipment?" where a simple answer can be given and verified quickly. Now torture after a conviction, thats more like it! :twisted:
  • marky2484marky2484 Posts: 160
    Who cares. They hate us. They will continue to hate us if we torture them , or if we don't. So let's do it. I am not responsible for the chain of events that have lead to the warped world view that they hold. However, in the eyes of an Islamic fundamentalist I am a valid target -as an unbeliever. The Internet is crowded with footage of these people hacking the heads off people they have captured.Don't waste your sympathy.
    If I had a baby elephant, I\'d be asking my girlfriend some SERIOUS questions.....
  • CunobelinCunobelin Posts: 11,792
    It may be because I have not paid enough attention but I still do not know why al Qaeda have decided to attack us in the first instance. We debate this and that but if someone attacks another there is reason for it. So why?

    Al Queda didn't actually exist until the americans invented them!
    The reality was that bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri had become the focus of a loose association of disillusioned Islamist militants who were attracted by the new strategy. But there was no organization. These were militants who mostly planned their own operations and looked to bin Laden for funding and assistance. He was not their commander. There is also no evidence that bin Laden used the term "al-Qaeda" to refer to the name of a group until after September the 11th, when he realized that this was the term the Americans had given it

    Te Power of Nightmares - BBC ( Adam Curtis)
    <b><i>He that buys land buys many stones.
    He that buys flesh buys many bones.
    He that buys eggs buys many shells,
    But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.</b></i>
    (Unattributed Trad.)
  • SamWise72SamWise72 Posts: 453
    Because we represent all they hate. Democracy, Christianity, Women who have roles in society outside of the kitchen & bedroom and we've thrown them out of Spain, so reducing the area of the Caliphate.

    Not remotely. They hate us mostly for supporting America. They hate America for it's presence in Saudi Arabia, and for supporting Israel in its suppression of Palestine, and for its perceived imperialism (debatable, but you can understand it), and definitely real cultural imperialism. There seems to be a widespread fear that Muslims just want to make us all like them. In fact, the problem is at least partly there because America recently, and Britain in the past, has tried to make everyone just like us.

    Don't get me wrong, Al Qaeda are reprehensible people, but they do have genuine reasons to be angry, and the problem with torture is not that it will make THEM hate us, but that it'll make other people who are on the fence join them. If we want to change the culture of countries from violence and suppression to freedom and democracy, we need to start by behaving like we believe in those things. If, of course, we're just after crushing them, well then we're kind of going about it the right way.
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  • bagpusscpbagpusscp Posts: 2,907
    IMO the conflict in the M E stems far further back in time than US involvment. They are however pi$$in$g a lot of FOLKS off with their F P at the present time which is only about OIL and who controls it . Divide and rule . The last thing the West wants is an Arab leader who will pull all Arab Nations together. Then the West would really be in the $h£t
    bagpuss
  • SamWise72SamWise72 Posts: 453
    The middle east has been a conflicted area for a long time, fought over by a lot of people, and exacerbated both by us, during the Great Game era, and the US and USSR during the Cold War, but the current hatred of America has, I believe, the causes I mention. Certainly I've spent time in Iran, and can confirm that most people's reason for disliking America (interestingly, most Iranians, whilst hating US foreign policy, don't hate Americans at all - they seem to be better than Westerners at seperating the two things) are those I've mentioned.
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