proof vs resistance

Fanis

Hi
I see that many technical jackets write that is windproof or waterproof and many other that is wind and water resistance.Do you know which is the difference between proof and resistance???

Andy

Basically Water Resistant means it will cope fine with spray and small amounts of moisture but any good level of rain will pretty much get through it. Waterproof means you stay dry

big_southern_jesse

If you want to get technical, waterproof doesn't really exist. Witness the machines that use water to cut steel or concrete. What you get is a material that resists water penetrating it to a certain pressure.

High tech fabrics and clothing will have a rating, measured in mm, often referred to as a "water column" or height measurement. This measures the permeability of the material and is an industry standard. Essentially the take a section of the material and place it under a pipe with a 1square cm cross section area. They then fill this pipe with water, higher and higher, until the pressure is sufficient to force water through the fabric. This height is then measured, and is the rating.

Anything above 2000mm or so is pretty good, 5000mm is essentially rainproof in a prolonged downpour, and 10,000mm is about as high as they go now.
You also need to look at whether the seams have been taped to stop water ingress through the holes made when stitching the jacket together, and how zips etc go together.

Air molecules are much smaller than water molecules, so jackets with a high water resistance can still be breatheable, which makes them much more comfortable.

More basic technical wear, - i.e. a Regatta anorak, tend to say things like waterproof, and they are generally a sheet of plastic that is not breathable and becomes sweaty and nasty. If the jacket is any good, the manufacturer's will usually credit you with enough intelligence and knowledge to not try to claim to be waterprrof. Instead they'll talk about resistance, and quote a figure as above, and often one for breathability, which I believe is measured as a volume of air passing through it in a certain time frame, such as litres/hour!

If you wander into a reasonable shop, all this should be on the labelling. I know trespass set it all out quite well, and it's easy to see what you gain at each price level.

Hope this helps, .

NEILHEAD

Big Southern Jesse wrote:

If you want to get technical, waterproof doesn't really exist. Witness the machines that use water to cut steel or concrete. What you get is a material that resists water penetrating it to a certain pressure.

High tech fabrics and clothing will have a rating, measured in mm, often referred to as a "water column" or height measurement. This measures the permeability of the material and is an industry standard. Essentially the take a section of the material and place it under a pipe with a 1square cm cross section area. They then fill this pipe with water, higher and higher, until the pressure is sufficient to force water through the fabric. This height is then measured, and is the rating.

Anything above 2000mm or so is pretty good, 5000mm is essentially rainproof in a prolonged downpour, and 10,000mm is about as high as they go now.
You also need to look at whether the seams have been taped to stop water ingress through the holes made when stitching the jacket together, and how zips etc go together.

Air molecules are much smaller than water molecules, so jackets with a high water resistance can still be breatheable, which makes them much more comfortable.

More basic technical wear, - i.e. a Regatta anorak, tend to say things like waterproof, and they are generally a sheet of plastic that is not breathable and becomes sweaty and nasty. If the jacket is any good, the manufacturer's will usually credit you with enough intelligence and knowledge to not try to claim to be waterprrof. Instead they'll talk about resistance, and quote a figure as above, and often one for breathability, which I believe is measured as a volume of air passing through it in a certain time frame, such as litres/hour!

If you wander into a reasonable shop, all this should be on the labelling. I know trespass set it all out quite well, and it's easy to see what you gain at each price level.

Hope this helps, .

cheers ive learnt something today after all

Yahoobedoo

@ Big Southern Jessie

Cheers for such an informative post.

I too, have learnt something new.

Nice one!

WILSTOKES

Good info there. Just a couple of things to pick up on though - basic Gore Tex is actually about 28,000 and 3 layer XCR is around 45,000! Event is up around the 30,000 mark as well. This is the sort of level you should be looking at for 'proper' waterproofness. The jackets around the 10,000 mark are pretty good but will leak in sustained rain (especially where pressure is higher e.g. under Camelback straps etc) and will be far more sweaty (less breathable) so will get wet from the inside out.

Unfortunately, the British standard (BS3424) for companies to be able to call their products waterproof is stupidly low at about 1250. This is definitely not waterproof!

big_southern_jesse

Cheers Wilstokes, I hadn't realised the figures were that high. I worked in an O'neill shop for a while and their best tech ski and board jackets were 5000mm, and deemed the dogs danglies at the time.

Fanis

Thank you WILSTOKES,Big Southern Jesse for your help
I have find four jackets but i cant decide which is the best for me.I want a jacket with very good breathability because i sweat a lot.
1)Pearl izumi vagabond II
2)Gore complete II
3)Endura superlite
4)RaceFace squall
The first two have zip-off sleeves and can be used as a jacket or vest.I think that is a big advantage because i can wear it in spring windy days

WILSTOKES

They are all good jackets, but quite different. The Pearl Izumi is not a waterproof, just water resistant which means it will probably be the most breathable. The Gore is also not a waterproof, it's a windstopper which is water resistant (mailnly becuase the seams aren't taped). The Endura and the Race Face jackets are waterproofs with the following ratings:

Endura Superlite: waterproofness = 10,000 & breathability = 8,000
Raceface Squall: waterproofness = 20,000 & breathability = 12,000

So out of your choices, if you're looking for a waterproof, I'd go for the Raceface Squall. However, for a similar price, the Pace Event 3x3 is worth having a look at, reviewed on this site earlier in the week:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... acket-9146

Fanis

Hi WILSTOKE
I see that the Pace Event 3x3 has a very good reviewed.Another very good brand with eVent fabric is the Vaude.I see the Vaude Casella III Jacket III. i think that is from eVent fabric.Now i have to decide which one is the best for my use.I think that i need more a jacket with zip-off sleeves which i can wear it as a vest on spring windy days and as a jacket on winter days.What's your opinion???

Mytchett Mike

Might also be worth taking a look at Gill Pro Speed Waterproof Jacket 2008 on wiggle.co.uk - £80 & I'm very pleased with mine.

Mike

WILSTOKES

Both jackets look good. If you like the look of the Vaude then go for that one. You'll be glad you spent the extra money to get eVent (or Gore Tex) over the cheaper versions.