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Clipless pedals and the law

ParkeyParkey Posts: 303
edited May 2009 in Campaign
I've just noticed that the highway code (rule 60) states:

At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85).

I use small SPD-type pedals. Does that mean I'm technically breaking the law?
"A recent study has found that, at the current rate of usage, the word 'sustainable' will be worn out by the year 2015"
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Posts

  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    edited February 2008
    Yes it does. My SPD's came with these attachments

    spd.jpg

    So they comply with the law, however it means they become single-sided rather than double sided pedals (which I really want) so I don't use them.
  • OffTheBackAdamOffTheBackAdam Posts: 1,869
    Not technically breaking the law, breaking it.
    Present yourself at your local police station (Please check opening times) and give yourself up.
    Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    OffTheBackAdam wrote:
    Not technically breaking the law, breaking it.
    Present yourself at your local police station (Please check opening times) and give yourself up.

    no need to do that- the firearms unit will be co-ordinating a dawn raid on those involved in this type of activity
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

    Twittering @spen_666
  • iainmentiainment Posts: 992
    I am outraged at the lack of posters having a go at someone who breaks the law whilst cycling. By the logic of some on here this will bring cycling's reputation down and lead to incidents with irate motorists and pedestrians.
    I use toe clips and fully comply with this law so feel that I am able to give all you clipless hooligans a telling. Be warned, I'm on your case now.

    :?
    Old hippies don't die, they just lie low until the laughter stops and their time comes round again.
    Joseph Gallivan
  • ParkeyParkey Posts: 303
    edited February 2008
    Were I to consider the posibility of riding my bike during the hours of darkness I personally wouldn't have considered this a huge safety issue given the huge amounts of reflective tape found all over the cycling shoes needed for clipless pedals.

    As I read it this law effectively outlaws the use of clipless pedals at night as there don't seem to be any clipless pedals fitted with reflectors?

    I'm just surprised nobody else seems to be discussing this little technicality. I guess it's on a similar level to the whole thing about flashing red LED rear lights.
    "A recent study has found that, at the current rate of usage, the word 'sustainable' will be worn out by the year 2015"
  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    Flashing led lights are now legal (if they flash between 1 and 4 times per second. If they have a static mode it must be BS approved in that mode, which makes them virtually unobtainable!).
  • ParkeyParkey Posts: 303
    Yeah I'm aware of that. It was a law that was updated to follow the advances in technology. I was just wondering whether this law might at some point recieve the same treatement?
    "A recent study has found that, at the current rate of usage, the word 'sustainable' will be worn out by the year 2015"
  • iainmentiainment Posts: 992
    Parkey wrote:
    Were I to consider the posibility of riding my bike during the hours of darkness I personally wouldn't have considered this a huge safety issue given the huge amounts of reflective tape found all over the cycling shoes needed for clipless pedals.

    As I read it this law effectively outlaws the use of clipless pedals at night as there don't seem to be any clipless pedals fitted with reflectors?

    I'm just surprised nobody else seems to be discussing this little technicality. I guess it's on a similar level to the whole thing about flashing red LED rear lights.

    TECHNICALITY!!!

    It's the law, obey it.

    :P
    Old hippies don't die, they just lie low until the laughter stops and their time comes round again.
    Joseph Gallivan
  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    I hope it would, but there is probably not much motivation. Its not like a law thats unenforceable (thus demonstrating that it might be a poor law), rather it is unenforced, no one cares. The only time someone is likely to care is when it is cited as contributory negligence in an accident claim. I am told however, that the courts are unlikely to be impressed by such a counter claim. But I think it boils down to the fact that there is insufficient demand to make any change.
  • iainmentiainment Posts: 992
    Parkey wrote:
    Yeah I'm aware of that. It was a law that was updated to follow the advances in technology. I was just wondering whether this law might at some point recieve the same treatement?

    until then no night rides for you.
    Old hippies don't die, they just lie low until the laughter stops and their time comes round again.
    Joseph Gallivan
  • ParkeyParkey Posts: 303
    TORSVA170_l.jpg
    "A recent study has found that, at the current rate of usage, the word 'sustainable' will be worn out by the year 2015"
  • buspassmanbuspassman Posts: 35
    Someone may be able to correct me, but if I remember rightly, the "built after" refers to the whole bike, i.e. applies to bikes sold complete. That's why you see even the highest-end bikes for sale in shops fitted with pedals (and wheels) with reflectors. However, as I understand it, it doesn't apply to a bike you built up yourself, and doesn't even apply to a bike after it as been sold, just to the bike at point of sale. I think the whole thing is a worry about nothing.
  • Denny69Denny69 Posts: 206
    It's one of them "laws" that isn't enforced, another example of this is the law regarding Hackney or "black" cabs.....are people aware that every black cab has to carry a bail of hay and a shovel in the boot? It's not enforced but it's the law of the land!!! :P And if people are arguing about reflectors on SPD or similar pedals why don't we tackle the issue of people riding without lights? surely that's a more serious matter?
    Heaven kicked me out and Hell was too afraid I'd take over!!!

    Fighting back since 1975!!

    Happy riding

    Denny
  • CunobelinCunobelin Posts: 11,792
    alfablue wrote:
    Yes it does. My SPD's came with these attachments

    spd.jpg

    So they comply with the law, however it means they become single-sided rather than double sided pedals (which I really want) so I don't use them.

    Well they were on the bike when I left home Occifer!
    <b><i>He that buys land buys many stones.
    He that buys flesh buys many bones.
    He that buys eggs buys many shells,
    But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.</b></i>
    (Unattributed Trad.)
  • Random VinceRandom Vince Posts: 11,374
    iainment wrote:
    I am outraged at the lack of posters having a go at someone who breaks the law whilst cycling. By the logic of some on here this will bring cycling's reputation down and lead to incidents with irate motorists and pedestrians.
    I use toe clips and fully comply with this law so feel that I am able to give all you clipless hooligans a telling. Be warned, I'm on your case now.

    :?

    except me,

    i'm riding a bike made in the 1960's so i don't have to comply with either laws on reflectors :D
    My signature was stolen by a moose

    that will be all

    trying to get GT James banned since tuesday
  • Peter RhodesPeter Rhodes Posts: 329
    you could always say that the relfective stuff on shoes counts on the basis that they are a detachable part of the pedals
  • beverickbeverick Posts: 3,461
    You're only braking the law if you ride your bike in the hours of darkness.

    Bob
  • mattliverpoolmattliverpool Posts: 11
    I'm pretty sure that I'm correct in saying that the Highway Code is not law. Breaking it does not necessarily consitute an offence although could be construed as driving withour due care and attention with extra evidence.

    Anyone know any more about this?
  • robmanic1robmanic1 Posts: 2,150
    I guess nobody on here has ever been stopped for not having gimpy pedal reflectors, or flashing rear lights then?

    If the mail get wind of this we're all DOOMED!
    Pictures are better than words because some words are big and hard to understand.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/34335188@N07/3336802663/
  • Big Red SBig Red S Posts: 26,890
    Parkey wrote:
    As I read it this law effectively outlaws the use of clipless pedals at night as there don't seem to be any clipless pedals fitted with reflectors?

    When Specializeds were fitted with Time's OEM, they had a cunning reflector attachment that still allowed the use of both clips.

    It fell of rather quickly, though.
    http://avi.co/doc/Forums.html
  • will3will3 Posts: 2,173
    mattliverpool wrote:
    I'm pretty sure that I'm correct in saying that the Highway Code is not law. Breaking it does not necessarily consitute an offence although could be construed as driving withour due care and attention with extra evidence.

    Anyone know any more about this?

    some of it is, some of it isn't. The bits that are say MUST and usually have the relevant legislation quoted underneath.

    In this case it's law.
  • Stewie GriffinStewie Griffin Posts: 4,330
    I guess most on this forum are lit up well enough at night to not get looked at twice :) . I imagine that most of the Police wouldnt even know this and hope that they would have better things to worry about anyway :D
  • will3will3 Posts: 2,173
    Stewie Griffin wrote:
    I guess most on this forum are lit up well enough at night to not get looked at twice :) . I imagine that most of the Police wouldnt even know this and hope that they would have better things to worry about anyway :D

    I suspect you're right, however the issue becomes important when you're wiped out by an inattentive motorist and the insurance co starts argueing the toss about the legalities of your bike.
  • paulwoodpaulwood Posts: 231
    From the DOT website

    Guidance about lights on pedal bicycles
    Print Download PDF
    The use of lighting and reflectors on pedal bicycles is regulated under the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989, as amended. The most recent amendment is Statutory Instrument SI 2005 No. 2559 which came into force on October 23rd 2005.
    The main effect of the new Regulations was to permit flashing lights on pedal cycles. The flashing lights do however have to conform to certain requirements which are elaborated below.
    Obligatory Lighting and Reflectors

    Any cycle which is used during the hours of darkness or during periods of poor visibility MUST be fitted with the following:

    white front light
    red rear light
    red rear reflector
    amber/yellow pedal reflectors - front and rear on each pedal.
    The lamps may be steady or flashing, or a mixture - e.g. steady at the front and flashing at the rear. A steady light is recommended at the front when the cycle is used in areas without good street lighting.
    If either of the lights is capable of emitting a steady light, then it must conform to BS 6102-3 and be marked accordingly, even if used in flashing mode.
    Purely flashing lights are not required to conform to BS6102-3, but the flash rate must be between 60 and 240 equal flashes per minute (1-4 per second) and the luminous intensity must be at least 4 candela. (This should be advised by the manufacturer).
    The pedal reflectors and rear reflector must conform to BS 6102-2.
    Lights and reflectors not conforming to the BS, but conforming to a corresponding standard of another EC country and marked accordingly, are considered to comply as long as that standard provides an equivalent level of safety.
    Lights are NOT required to be fitted on a bicycle at the point of sale - but IF they are fitted, then they must comply with these regulations.
  • dondaredondare Posts: 2,113
    mattliverpool wrote:
    I'm pretty sure that I'm correct in saying that the Highway Code is not law. Breaking it does not necessarily consitute an offence although could be construed as driving withour due care and attention with extra evidence.

    Anyone know any more about this?

    It's not just the HC, it's the law as well.

    It's not just at the point of sale (that's bells), it's at the time of use.

    Reflective bits on cycling shoes don't count as they don't meet the exact criteria needed to comply with the law.

    Older bikes are exempt, which is a bit strange as older bikes are more likely to have pedals that you can fit reflectors to.

    Most of you are breaking the law, even if you'd rather not be. Legally, you can't use those clipless pedals after dark.
    This post contains traces of nuts.
  • beverickbeverick Posts: 3,461
    dondare wrote:
    mattliverpool wrote:
    quote]

    It's not just at the point of sale (that's bells), it's at the time of use.

    In this case during the hours of darkness.

    Bob
  • Mr_CellophaneMr_Cellophane Posts: 690
    One of the points raised against the chap that killed the girl in Buckingham was that he did not have refectors on his pedals.
  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    Mr_Cellophane wrote:
    One of the points raised against the chap that killed the girl in Buckingham was that he did not have refectors on his pedals.

    Hmmm, was the colision in hours of darkness? Even if it was it seems to be stretching things a bit to cite that as a factor, I mean unless the pedestrian is shining a light source at the pedals there is no light to reflect!
  • fluff.fluff. Posts: 771
    buspassman wrote:
    Someone may be able to correct me, but if I remember rightly, the "built after" refers to the whole bike, i.e. applies to bikes sold complete. That's why you see even the highest-end bikes for sale in shops fitted with pedals (and wheels) with reflectors. However, as I understand it, it doesn't apply to a bike you built up yourself, and doesn't even apply to a bike after it as been sold, just to the bike at point of sale. I think the whole thing is a worry about nothing.


    Somewhere in a Planet-X thread I remember something about bikes sold without pedals are classified as racing machines, and are exempt from the bell/ reflector business.

    Almost all shoes for clipless pedal systems come with a reflector in the heel anyway.
  • CunobelinCunobelin Posts: 11,792
    iainment wrote:
    I am outraged at the lack of posters having a go at someone who breaks the law whilst cycling. By the logic of some on here this will bring cycling's reputation down and lead to incidents with irate motorists and pedestrians.
    I use toe clips and fully comply with this law so feel that I am able to give all you clipless hooligans a telling. Be warned, I'm on your case now.

    :?

    Do you - most toe clips replace one of the reflectors!
    <b><i>He that buys land buys many stones.
    He that buys flesh buys many bones.
    He that buys eggs buys many shells,
    But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.</b></i>
    (Unattributed Trad.)
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