Bella Jorg interview in the new ProCycling

iainf72

Oooooooooofffff.

The Jens Voigt comment = Double Oooooooooof.

Buy it!

iainf72

Also, the interview with that wierd Tour of America guy is awesome.

"But one thing that's struck me is the Tour de France is very Eurocentric"

Yes mate, why do you think that is? Could it be because cycling is mostly a European sport??? Heaven help us.

Bronzie

iainf72 wrote:

"Tour de France is very Eurocentric"

Message to Frank - the clue is in the name. :roll:

AntLockyer

I am not buying it again. If I want to read about drugs I would buy High Times.

Titanium

I haven't read it yet. Can someone summarize the quotes?

AntLockyer wrote:

I am not buying it again. If I want to read about drugs I would buy High Times.

What's the problem, you learning that your heroes are fraudsters? Feels like the day some kid in school told you Santa Claus isn't for real, yes?

Keep shining the light, guys. No young riders should be forced to take the cocktail of dangerous drugs just to keep up. We'll never end doping but simple measures can help make the sport one where a clean rider on a good day can be a contender.

AntLockyer

Titanium wrote:

What's the problem, you learning that your heroes are fraudsters? Feels like the day some kid in school told you Santa Claus isn't for real, yes?

That's exactly right. It's shocking to me everytime I see another article about doping. I find it very difficult to believe that any of this can be true. After all these are great men doing great things.

Get real man, there is doping in every sport and there has been doping since day one. I am sure without a little less laziness in the journalism there is something else to write about.

Are you telling me you enjoy every article being about drugs?

iainf72

Titanium wrote:

I haven't read it yet. Can someone summarize the quotes?

Jorg on Voigt : I don't want to talk about other riders, but Jen Voigt is the exception. I never had any problems with him and always thought he was an honest soul. But I was at CSC, and I, for my part, know what happened there. And I know what happened, back in the days when EPO wasn't detectable.

On Saiz : He had shouldered the blame for a lot of people.....Manolo is a man of honour and dignity....should he ever want to return to the sport I'm sure he'll want to manage a different kind of pro cycling

On Damsgaard : Anti Doping is big busines, isn't it?

On Contador : No Comment

Titanium

iainf72 wrote:

Damsgaard : Anti Doping is big busines, isn't it?

Good point. Imagine if he found real positive data at Astana or CSC. If he publishes it, the source of his business's income dries up immediately. No way he'd be dishonest but the temptation has gotta be there to put a call into the DS and say "x is doping, tell him to stop or next time I'm publishing it". Our sport should not have conflicts of interest like this, especially on sensitive matters like this.

DaveyL

Except that's not how it works.

And I'd say anti-doping is considerably less big business than doping.

drenkrom

Even if that's what Damsgaard does, it's still better than having that rider x never trip a UCI test and keep on going. Of course programs like his and that of ACE open the door to such situations, but I'd rather have to trust Damsgaard and his tests than the word of the riders and managers. We saw how far that took us.

Kléber

Anti-doping might be less money than doping but it's another example of the UCI failing. It's a bit like the government failing to provide police, so people hire private security guards. Surely the UCI should be running a scheme like Damsgaards for the whole of its ProTour?

As for the idea of doping articles, they're essential. There's no point in reading pages about so and so's stunning attack in the closing miles of a race if it's based on his hormonal abuse; there's no point glorifying riders if they are less talented than others but win more because they dope. AntLockyer, ask yourself: what separates the riders on a podium of a grand Tour, a few seconds of agony or a few milligrams of something else?

Ugly, yes but if you care for the riders you want the doping cleaned up and one element of this is to put riders on the spot and to explore the issue. Whether it's racism, corruption or crime, you need to make sure a subject isn't taboo if you want to end it, you have to be willing to confront the problem.

Otherwise, we might as well let riders dope to the max, some die from heart attacks a la Simpson mid-race, others win the Tour at 45km/h and die in their early 40s. Macabrely entertaining TV but not the sport I want. I want real sport, not "The Running Man" on bikes.

LangerDan

Kléber wrote:

Anti-doping might be less money than doping but it's another example of the UCI failing. It's a bit like the government failing to provide police, so people hire private security guards. Surely the UCI should be running a scheme like Damsgaards for the whole of its ProTour?

The UCI is no different to any other sporting organisation. They provide the rules and framework in which the sport is (supposed)to be run. The actual taking of samples as well as the analysis is contracted out.

One of the problems with the UCI implementing a "Damsgaard" program was highlighted by La Gripper in a recent interview. A team only needs to monitor 20 or 30 riders. A UCI ProTour program would have to big enough to monitor 20 times that. If you add in the Continental Pro teams and the top level track, MTB and cross riders, the scheme could have one or two thousand. Now look at the costs that Slipstream flagged for running the scheme for their own squad and scale-up. The annual budget for this level of testing would be in the tens of millions.

In any case, I would prefer the testing programs to at least have the semblance of independance. If the UCI carry out the testing, they may be inclined to push the balance of probabilities towards guilt each time

dave_1

Pro Cycling was very interesting reading this month, I didn't plan on buying it last night...but the Jorge Jackshe comments were jaw dropping, so spent $106 HKD - £6.80...bought it in Hong Kong Airport to read on the way back to the UK last night and it was worth every penny..read it twice and parts thrice...

I hope Bella Jorge gets a place on a good team as he deserves it....

iainf72

LangerDan wrote:

In any case, I would prefer the testing programs to at least have the semblance of independance. If the UCI carry out the testing, they may be inclined to push the balance of probabilities towards guilt each time

There needs to be an agency that crosses sports and deals with this stuff. Not WADA because they're all about policy, but, an "operational" anti-doping group.

All the cycling teams should have to contribute equally to it too. I've seen people say the money High Horse / Slipstream / Astana / CSC are spending should go to the UCI but I don't see how that's different to Armstrong giving them a donation.

jimmythecuckoo

Whatever the wrongs and rights of this case, he has had the guts to spill and that should be applauded as riders still seem intent on the Omerta.

Bronzie

His comments on Cecchini (that their relationship was solely for training methods and did not involve any doping practises, also pointing out that Cecchini is rich enough already not to need income from dopers) were also very interesting.

Perhaps Cecchini is not the grand witch some on here would believe, and his riders are not automatically dopers by default?

iainf72

Bronzie wrote:

His comments on Cecchini (that their relationship was solely for training methods and did not involve any doping practises, also pointing out that Cecchini is rich enough already not to need income from dopers) were also very interesting.

Perhaps Cecchini is not the grand witch some on here would believe, and his riders are not automatically dopers by default?

Millar said the same thing - And a few other Italians who worked with him. But many people who got their training programs from Ceccho also used Fuentes....

I don't believe he'd be directly involved - Nor would someone like Dr Ferrari these days.

Kléber

Saying someone is wealthy so they don't need to turn to crime? Did Al Capone stop when he made his first million?

Cecchini was the team doctor at Ariostea. But who knows what happened. We'll never know. It is entirely possible that he's just extremely knowledgeable when it comes to training with power measurement systems. I hope so.

drenkrom

Cecchini was filthy-rich before he ever became involved in cycling. He pursued studies in exercise physiology out of passion and practiced with teams for the same reason. He pushed research further than most others and has a reportedly unbelievable knowledge of his field. The fact that his clients were on Fuentes' program would lead me to believe he didn't do doping himself. We never really know, though...

dave_1

if he was such an innocent guru...then surely he would stop working with people who only have a 3 week peak per season and then become average the rest of the year...he would se their massive performance fluctuations and know it is not human...

Kléber

He was Riis's coach, and worked with others who have been outed. Whilst it is entirely possible that he has never been involved in doping itself, I'd like to hear his explanation as to how Riis went from 5.8W/kg to 7W/kg. He must surely know the most significant factor behind this transformation.

That said, I knew why Riis won, so his explanation would hardy be a revelation. It would just be nice to know whether he can be open about it, or has to resort to weasel-words.

dave_1

Kléber wrote:

He was Riis's coach, and worked with others who have been outed. Whilst it is entirely possible that he has never been involved in doping itself, I'd like to hear his explanation as to how Riis went from 5.8W/kg to 7W/kg. He must surely know the most significant factor behind this transformation.

That said, I knew why Riis won, so his explanation would hardy be a revelation. It would just be nice to know whether he can be open about it, or has to resort to weasel-words.

Have a look at Bjarne Riis' 1996 Dauphine...he clearly went clean , he was a complete joke and then wins the TDF the next month...in terms of sports physiology , surely that muist be a red flag to any coach that their client is as dodgy as they come