Invited Giro teams announced
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/Ast ... 77315.html
No Astana or High-Road
Credit Agricole and Bouygues Telecom also excluded, although probably because they don't really try very hard in the Giro
No Astana or High-Road
Credit Agricole and Bouygues Telecom also excluded, although probably because they don't really try very hard in the Giro
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No Acqua e Sapone then? Seems odd. What criteria did they fail to meet?0
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I'm wondering exactly what criteria NGC MEDICAL-OTC succeeded in meeting. The absence of High Horse in San Remo is lame, as they had very interesting cards to play.0
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Ahhh, just after High Horse announced a "strong team" for the Giro they're not invited.
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/COM ... 77337.html
They completely gloss over the fact Mick Rogers, like it or not, has got a big old question mark over his head.
Tinkoff absolutely deserve to be there for entertainment value.
Acqua e Sapone wouldn't be there on ethical basis I guess. They had an astonishing amount of doping trouble last year as I remember.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/ROG ... 76641.html
Today's lesson Mr Aldag. Assume makes an ass of u and me.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Seriously though, who the hell are NGC Medical-OTC?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2008 ... /NGC.shtml
I've never heard of a single one of their riders.
The snub to Crédit Agricole is pretty harsh. They're always good value in the breakaways (Le Mevel a couple of years ago) and Caucchioli has has 3 top 10 finishes.0 -
I guess what we're seeing are the territorial pissings of the Grand Tours. Now that they don't have to conform to ProTour selection criteria, the organisers will pick whoever is unlikely to cause adverse publicity.
I think refusing CA and picking NCG is just a bit of flag waving - "even our crap local squads are better than your top teams"
The retalliation will probably be Lampre getting the shove and letting some Div.2 regional squad in, using the current Lampre "difficulties" as an excuse.
I think you can expect to see the GTs knocking lumps out of each other this year and ASO looking to buy up Unipublic.'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
But if you go back a few years then we didn't see these small to medium size French squads riding the Giro (and the Tour with the Italian ones) so is it really any different now, we're just going back to a more pre-ProTour state of being.
Presume FDJ's ride is based upon Casar's 5th place in 2006. Likewise Cofidis perhaps scrape in because of Verbrugghe's prologue win a few years ago and Leonardo Duque taking the race vaguely seriously last year.
AG2R have got Valjavec this season, so I presume his past performances have secured their ride.
Can't really blame them for binning Bougyes and CA though, apart from Hushovd what did either team contribute to the race? As an organiser of the 2nd biggest stage race in the world, to see a team of 9 unknown 22year old French riders turn up, when you could instead have invited Tinkoff of Savio's team who will at least animate the race, must be pretty gauling.
Wonder if there's something more to the Acqua&Sapone uninvite (particularly regarding Garzelli & Palumbo's strong performances), as they weren't that scandal hit in 2007 (Muraglia suspended and they ditched Scarponi early on), though I notice Luca Paolini is on their '08 roster.0 -
I fail to understand the grounds for excluding High Horse...but Astana...that's long overdue for Bruyneel's atempt to rehab basso when he should have been out of view of the media and waiting for sanction0
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Dave_1 wrote:I fail to understand the grounds for excluding High Horse...but Astana...that's long overdue for Bruyneel's atempt to rehab basso when he should have been out of view of the media and waiting for sanction
I doubt it has anything to do with Bruyneel - More punishment for last years Astana.
High Horse isn't difficult to understand.
1) What has changed since last year? Same management, same "worrying" riders and "worrying" new signing.
2) Their arrogance expecting they would be invited and thinking they could treat it as training
3) RCS already invited an "American" team in Slipstream. What do High Horse offer? Slipstream will get the Giro TV coverage in the US so they don't offer anything in that space.
I could continue on and on and on and on - If that team didn't have Wiggins / Cav + other english speakers, no one would give a toss.
If anyone watched Derren Browns "The System" last night, think about how that could apply to High Horse.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Dave_1 wrote:I fail to understand the grounds for excluding High Horse...but Astana...that's long overdue for Bruyneel's atempt to rehab basso when he should have been out of view of the media and waiting for sanction
I doubt it has anything to do with Bruyneel - More punishment for last years Astana.
High Horse isn't difficult to understand.
1) What has changed since last year? Same management, same "worrying" riders and "worrying" new signing.
2) Their arrogance expecting they would be invited and thinking they could treat it as training
3) RCS already invited an "American" team in Slipstream. What do High Horse offer? Slipstream will get the Giro TV coverage in the US so they don't offer anything in that space.
I could continue on and on and on and on - If that team didn't have Wiggins / Cav + other english speakers, no one would give a toss.
If anyone watched Derren Browns "The System" last night, think about how that could apply to High Horse.
they let Di Luca in , so can't be that hard on suspect riders...and, before thinking it's cause he is Italian, we need to remember Garzelli's team was not picked. A Legeay team is most likely clean...but not invited, a well monitored high horse team, excluded...we have no proof about M. Rogers yet. Di Luca should not be there if HH are not there0 -
Dave_1 wrote:they let Di Luca in , so can't be that hard on suspect riders...and, before thinking it's cause he is Italian, we need to remember Garzelli's team was not picked. A Legeay team is most likely clean...but not invited, a well monitored high horse team, excluded...we have no proof about M. Rogers yet. Di Luca should not be there if HH are not there
Di Luca has been punished for associating with a dodgy doctor, not for doping.
Take away the "clean" polemics and what do High Horse offer the Giro?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Italian National TT champion? Apart from that T-Mobile did send a pretty second rate team to the Giro last year, so another reason why RCS might not have been too disappointed not to have found room for them.0
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All this does is show up the mishandling of the ProTour by the UCI and exposes the hole dug by the teams with regard to their attitude to doping in 2006 and 2007. The Grand Tour organisers have spotted an opportunity to have things their own way and taken it. Whether this is a Good Thing or a Bad Thing remains to be seen. But you can't blame the race organisers for ignoring teams that are publicly stating it might be a bit of good training to turn up at the Giro can you?0
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I 'd like to see Roger Legeay's team at all the big races as he was very ethical with Saul Raisin and secondly, when Casado asked Legeay to provide EPO on the grounds that it was being used by all the big teams at the time (Lemond's account of that disucssion)..Legeay said no...and Casado went to a team in Italy..AKI or Jolly? I'll check..and died of a heart attack without clear reason...but one can guess. I think Legeay is excellent as director and he should never have his team knocked back. Credit Agricole are pulling out at the end of 08. This is bad.
How come Italy has all the best riders and has had for 15 years...really since Bugno in 90...before that theyonly had Argentin for a few years? The Giro organiser are not in a position to be punishing clean teams from France who look after their riders health..0 -
Dave_1 wrote:I 'd like to see Roger Legeay's team at all the big races as he was very ethical with Saul Raisin and secondly, when Casado asked Legeay to provide EPO on the grounds that it was being used by all the big teams at the time (Lemond's account of that disucssion)..Legeay said no...and Casado went to a team in Italy..AKI or Jolly? I'll check..and died of a heart attack without clear reason...but one can guess. I think Legeay is excellent as director and he should never have his team knocked back. Credit Agricole are pulling out at the end of 08. This is bad.
How come Italy has all the best riders and has had for 15 years...really since Bugno in 90...before that theyonly had Argentin for a few years? The Giro organiser are not in a position to be punishing clean teams from France who look after their riders health..
I'm not sure that CA not riding the Giro is 'punishment'. The team will probably do better ,commercially & sporting-wise, in French & Northern European races on at the same time. For French teams the Mondalisation of cycling has probably brought far more ills than good. Now if they could just ban the dodgy Italians & Spaniards from their own tour...___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
calvjones wrote:Dave_1 wrote:I 'd like to see Roger Legeay's team at all the big races as he was very ethical with Saul Raisin and secondly, when Casado asked Legeay to provide EPO on the grounds that it was being used by all the big teams at the time (Lemond's account of that disucssion)..Legeay said no...and Casado went to a team in Italy..AKI or Jolly? I'll check..and died of a heart attack without clear reason...but one can guess. I think Legeay is excellent as director and he should never have his team knocked back. Credit Agricole are pulling out at the end of 08. This is bad.
How come Italy has all the best riders and has had for 15 years...really since Bugno in 90...before that theyonly had Argentin for a few years? The Giro organiser are not in a position to be punishing clean teams from France who look after their riders health..
I'm not sure that CA not riding the Giro is 'punishment'. The team will probably do better ,commercially & sporting-wise, in French & Northern European races on at the same time. For French teams the Mondalisation of cycling has probably brought far more ills than good. Now if they could just ban the dodgy Italians & Spaniards from their own tour...
I agree. Do we even know if CA wants to ride the Giro? Better to concentrate on races that are more important to their sponsor than getting caned by some doped up Italians in a race the average Frenchman couln't give a monkeys about.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
Leaving-out High Horse means we don't get to see one of their riders wearing pink, err I mean magenta, err no I mean pink again
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Exactly so. The Giro used to be full of small Italian squads who no-one had ever heard of. Since the inception of the Pro Tour most of the French squads have complained about having to do 3 GTs a season and mainly sent 'development' squads for the experience. It's no surprise that RCS have removed them at the first opportunity.GroupOfOne MkII wrote:But if you go back a few years then we didn't see these small to medium size French squads riding the Giro (and the Tour with the Italian ones) so is it really any different now, we're just going back to a more pre-ProTour state of being.
I do wonder if the exclusion of High Road is a sign of things to come and we'll see them excluded from a lot of ex-Pro Tour races this season. The absence of a sponsor really doesn't help them as the traditional route of using their presence in any local market to apply pressure on the organisers isn't open to them.0 -
andyp wrote:
I do wonder if the exclusion of High Road is a sign of things to come and we'll see them excluded from a lot of ex-Pro Tour races this season. The absence of a sponsor really doesn't help them as the traditional route of using their presence in any local market to apply pressure on the organisers isn't open to them.
Exactly right. It's all about the dollar, as we say in hip hop circles.
High Horse have also said they'll talk to RCS "at some point" - Meanwhile Bruyneel got then on the phone ASAP and did some begging. It's fairly obvious if Astana had said "Bertie is going for the Tour and Levi is going for the Giro" they'd be there. An American challenger would suit the Giro.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
They did say Leipheimer was going to ride the Giro, but only as preparation for the Tour.
Anyway they've got an American presence in Slipstream, and of course in an ideal world you as race organiser would want to invite one team from each of say the 15 largest markets for you revenue wise, then fill the rest of the slots with home teams.0 -
GroupOfOne MkII wrote:They did say Leipheimer was going to ride the Giro, but only as preparation for the Tour.
Anyway they've got an American presence in Slipstream, and of course in an ideal world you as race organiser would want to invite one team from each of say the 15 largest markets for you revenue wise, then fill the rest of the slots with home teams.
But does RCS have any substantial non-Italian revenue? And if not, why would they care to have any non-It teams, especially as (Schleck excluded) its a pasta fest on GC every year?___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
calvjones wrote:GroupOfOne MkII wrote:They did say Leipheimer was going to ride the Giro, but only as preparation for the Tour.
Anyway they've got an American presence in Slipstream, and of course in an ideal world you as race organiser would want to invite one team from each of say the 15 largest markets for you revenue wise, then fill the rest of the slots with home teams.
But does RCS have any substantial non-Italian revenue? And if not, why would they care to have any non-It teams, especially as (Schleck excluded) its a pasta fest on GC every year?
I guess their only non-Italian revenue would be TV money and exposure in foreign press. I was more speculating generically (not just in the case of the Giro) about in an ideal situation having teams from a spread of countries to widen the 'appeal' of your race to sponsors and so forth. Am pretty sure that the Giro and RCS (and the Tour for that matter) are more concerned with their home market, as is the strongest/most desireable.0 -
well i for one am glad Bruyneel and his sorry bunch are not getting an invite.. looks like he`s getting his come uppence for the years of dodging the doping issue - yeah we will sign Basso even if his dogs called Burrilo or whatever....anyone else noticed how he`s managed to dodge the issue of ex US.Postal..Discovery riders who have all tested positive and what about SAINT LANCE oh yes mr Bruyneel he`s just trained harder than all tho other riders......yeah and am a dutchman blah blah blah..0
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kellys heroes Posted: Mon Feb 4, 2008 9:03 pm Post subject:
well i for one am glad Bruyneel and his sorry bunch are not getting an invite.. looks like he`s getting his come uppence for the years of dodging the doping issue - yeah we will sign Basso even if his dogs called Burrilo or whatever....anyone else noticed how he`s managed to dodge the issue of ex US.Postal..Discovery riders who have all tested positive and what about SAINT LANCE oh yes mr Bruyneel he`s just trained harder than all tho other riders......yeah and am a dutchman blah blah blah..
You are a troll. Ignorance meets diarrhea of the mouth plus the internet. Get a life and move out of your moms basement.0 -
Bruyneel's the cheerleader of a multimillion dollar ex-athlete that I, going by the list of allegations, struggle to have faith in...JB is no position to cast judgement whatsoever0
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Dave_1 wrote:Bruyneel's the cheerleader of a multimillion dollar ex-athlete that I, going by the list of allegations, struggle to have faith in...JB is no position to cast judgement whatsoever
Disagree completely, he is. If the non-PT teams take part in the Giro without valid passports and the IPCT members don't boycott the race, they're hypocrites. They gave him a hard time about Basso so if they don't follow through on their threat to not take part, what does that say?
He's not worse than anyone else. This obsession with him must stop - Let's focus on the big picture.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
You are Johan Aloysius Bruyneel and I claim my prize!iainf72 wrote:Disagree completely, he is. If the non-PT teams take part in the Giro without valid passports and the IPCT members don't boycott the race, they're hypocrites. They gave him a hard time about Basso so if they don't follow through on their threat to not take part, what does that say?
He's not worse than anyone else. This obsession with him must stop - Let's focus on the big picture.0
