Amnesty for Basso

iainf72

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/Ita ... 76566.html

Interesting. Of could Gibo is going to whinge about it - All those gak laced sweets have probably made him paranoid :P

Titanium

Based on the article, this is a free pass for Basso, nothing is asked in return. He gets his ban cut just because he's from the same town as where the Worlds are being held.

We have a rider who ran from the truth and even when found guilty and banned, he came up with the "it was an attempt at doping" line, something that Frank Vandenbroucke probably couldn't invent. He played a large part in the (premature) collapse of the Discovery team, something the combined spectre of Armstrong-Bruyneel-Ferrari couldn't achieve.

Race organisers should be punishing his weasel behavior, not rewarding it.

iainf72

Titanium wrote:

Race organisers should be punishing his weasel behavior, not rewarding it.

Only an absolute moron would tell the entire truth in the current climate. Look at Sinkewitz, he tried it and look what it's got him. Basso played the game well and admitted a lot more than anyone else involved in Puerto.

drenkrom

I think the Italians are getting fed up of seeing the other OP riders go on with business as usual while their champion kind of admitted and took it on the chin (all things being relative, of course). CONI's foray into Puerto was the first sign, and I think this is just another. It would be kind of unjust to have Valv.Piti win the Worlds in Basso's hometown while Birillo is out on suspension, don't you think?

Bronzie

drenkrom wrote:

It would be kind of unjust to have Valv.Piti win the Worlds in Basso's hometown while Birillo is out on suspension, don't you think?

Unjust yes, but that's life. A ban is a ban and it shouldn't be subject to review just the rider wants to ride a race in his home town. Unless Basso offers something more in return, his ban should remain at the 2 years imposed.

It's rare that I agree with anything that Gibo says, but this is an exception.

Titanium

Rules are rules. If Basso gets a ban, he's gotta serve it.

iainf72

Bronzie wrote:

Unjust yes, but that's life. A ban is a ban and it shouldn't be subject to review just the rider wants to ride a race in his home town. Unless Basso offers something more in return, his ban should remain at the 2 years imposed.

Again, why would he? Why would anyone with ANY common sense offer more?

Wasn't Gatlin's ban reduced recently while he was serving it?

Titanium

Cut his ban if he offers information useful to stopping the doping problem, if he tells us more about how the doping worked, his links to Cecchini and Riis. Just because he's the championship homeboy doesn't mean anything. What next, should Landis have his ban lifted for the Tour of California because he has a house in Stockton?

skavanagh.bikeradar

Come on Iain. Basso got caught out, partially admitted intent and is paying the price. It is immaterial who else got what else for similar or worse stuff. It's schoolboy/playground reasoning to say he should ride a major, prestige event, in Italy just 'cos he's a local. Nonsense.

iainf72

Titanium wrote:

Cut his ban if he offers information useful to stopping the doping problem, if he tells us more about how the doping worked, his links to Cecchini and Riis.

Remind me about how many job offers Sinkewitz and Bella Jorg have got?

It might be sad but the reality of cycling is if you want to work in the field, keep quiet.
Blabbermouths should take their press money and get a job in a factory.

iainf72

skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:

Come on Iain. Basso got caught out, partially admitted intent and is paying the price. It is immaterial who else got what else for similar or worse stuff. It's schoolboy/playground reasoning to say he should ride a major, prestige event, in Italy just 'cos he's a local. Nonsense.

I agree actually. He should do his full ban BUT should be welcomed back when it's done.

I'm just playing my devil role 8)

Titanium

iainf72 wrote:

Remind me about how many job offers Sinkewitz and Bella Jorg have got?

I hear what you're saying but neither Sinkewitz or Jaksche were outstanding riders. Good, yes but not essential and given that everyone knows they doped and won't do so in the future, you can apply a 10-20% discount to their wattage meaning they'll become useless for most teams.
These guys cheated and only squealed later, they are no saints, they denied everything for a long time, in Jaksche's case for months and months.

Bronzie

iainf72 wrote:

Wasn't Gatlin's ban reduced recently while he was serving it?

Gatlin got an 8 year ban for a 2nd doping positive. This should have been an automatic life ban, but he agreed to assist USADA's anti-doping campaign so got the 8 year ban instead. He then appealed the length of the ban and got it reduced to 4 years on the basis that his first doping offence was due to drugs he was taking to control a known medical condition.

Very different circumstances to "hey there's a big important race in my home town just a couple of months before my ban is due to expire - anyone mind if I ride?"

iainf72

Bronzie wrote:

Very different circumstances to "hey there's a big important race in my home town just a couple of months before my ban is due to expire - anyone mind if I ride?"

Except it's the organisers asking according to the article and getting support from the federation....

He's get slaughtered in the race with no racing in his legs anyway.

iainf72

Titanium wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Remind me about how many job offers Sinkewitz and Bella Jorg have got?

I hear what you're saying but neither Sinkewitz or Jaksche were outstanding riders. Good, yes but not essential and given that everyone knows they doped and won't do so in the future, you can apply a 10-20% discount to their wattage meaning they'll become useless for most teams.

The same could be true of Basso though - We're not really sure on how good he is - Ok, he was U23 world champion BUT he was probably prepared for that. You raced in Italy and know the score. The Pantani book indicated that it looked like Marco was "prepared" while still a junior etc.

He's still not going to have a problem getting a contract though. And given that the UCI used his blood values a couple of years ago to demonstrate how all was good in he peloton, what is there to stop him doing the same stuff again.

dave_1

iainf72 wrote:

Titanium wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Remind me about how many job offers Sinkewitz and Bella Jorg have got?

I hear what you're saying but neither Sinkewitz or Jaksche were outstanding riders. Good, yes but not essential and given that everyone knows they doped and won't do so in the future, you can apply a 10-20% discount to their wattage meaning they'll become useless for most teams.

The same could be true of Basso though - We're not really sure on how good he is - Ok, he was U23 world champion BUT he was probably prepared for that. You raced in Italy and know the score. The Pantani book indicated that it looked like Marco was "prepared" while still a junior etc.

He's still not going to have a problem getting a contract though. And given that the UCI used his blood values a couple of years ago to demonstrate how all was good in he peloton, what is there to stop him doing the same stuff again.

Riis also said Basso's blood parameters were a model example of clean...but he was not. I can't accept Basso dominated the 06 Giro and then was so worried about losing the 06 TDF a month later he prepares to blood dope for the first time. Basso muts not be allowed back and it is great to see Simoni come off the fence and say it is wrong. Makes me think Gibo is a clean guy..at least now anyway

drenkrom

Gibo just hates Basso. Pure, Italian hatred.

iainf72

Dave_1 wrote:

Riis also said Basso's blood parameters were a model example of clean...but he was not. I can't accept Basso dominated the 06 Giro and then was so worried about losing the 06 TDF a month later he prepares to blood dope for the first time. Basso muts not be allowed back and it is great to see Simoni come off the fence and say it is wrong. Makes me think Gibo is a clean guy..at least now anyway

He must be allowed back. He's done his time. If the testing can't pick up dodginess it's not Basso's fault.

dave_1

iainf72 wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

Riis also said Basso's blood parameters were a model example of clean...but he was not. I can't accept Basso dominated the 06 Giro and then was so worried about losing the 06 TDF a month later he prepares to blood dope for the first time. Basso muts not be allowed back and it is great to see Simoni come off the fence and say it is wrong. Makes me think Gibo is a clean guy..at least now anyway

He must be allowed back. He's done his time. If the testing can't pick up dodginess it's not Basso's fault.

Sorry...I meant Basso must not be allowed back before his ban is up in October. He must be made an example of. Summer 06 to Spring 09 as a forced break will impact on Basso as will his age, so he will feel the impact of the ban afterwards and that's enough.

G man

Basso should not have his sentence reduced. While I diasagree with doping , and the dopers' pathetic excuses, I can understand why they lie. As you say Iain, their careers are over if they tell all. I think for the sport to remain profitable from sponsors , there are only 2 options left. The first is to allow "controlled doping" or hormone rebalancing - as ridiculously suggested by Mr Liggett in cycling plus not long ago. I completely disagree with this. The second is to impose life bans for dopers which is the only solution IMO. Otherwise the farce will run and run.
G man

iainf72

G man wrote:

The second is to impose life bans for dopers which is the only solution IMO. Otherwise the farce will run and run.
G man

Harsher punishments aren't going to make any difference.

The only way to sort it out is to have testing that works - If they think they'll get caught they won't do it. Good detection and a 2 year ban is more than enough.

dave_1

iainf72 wrote:

G man wrote:

The second is to impose life bans for dopers which is the only solution IMO. Otherwise the farce will run and run.
G man

Harsher punishments aren't going to make any difference.

The only way to sort it out is to have testing that works - If they think they'll get caught they won't do it. Good detection and a 2 year ban is more than enough.

I agree...the lfieban is lke hanging...it desn't work..people who want o cmmit a serious cime still will

iainf72

What a dude!

As for the suggestion of a discounted suspension, Basso stated that he does not want this. "They disqualified me for a reason. It is right that I have to hang my head low and that I pay. However, after, I will return with my head held high."

secretsqirrel

Ah, brings a tear to the eye!

But seriuously a little humility might well work in his favour when courting future employers.

drenkrom

Don't you love the media when they make a big debate out of something like this without the concerned rider having ever asked for a reduced sanction in the first place? And then we wonder why there are so many "scandals" in cycling...

skavanagh.bikeradar

Ah, yes but Basso has friends who can float the idea for him so he doesn't need to get involved until asked.

iainf72

skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:

Ah, yes but Basso has friends who can float the idea for him so he doesn't need to get involved until asked.

Can I have my tinfoil hat back now?

Titanium

Dave_1 wrote:

Harsher punishments aren't going to make any difference.

The only way to sort it out is to have testing that works - If they think they'll get caught they won't do it. Good detection and a 2 year ban is more than enough.

I agree...the lfieban is lke hanging...it desn't work..people who want o cmmit a serious cime still will[/quote]
The death penalty doesn't deter crime. There is no meaningful correlation between murder rates and the states in the US that have capital punishment. But there is a link between those states were you get caught, tried and executed quickly and lower homicide rates. Put another way, the law isn't enough and you need real detection and rapid justice.
If dopers knew they would be caught and that justice was swift, many would stop. Compare the situation in France (police investigations, blood passports for a decade) to Spain (nada, "I am calm") and see what you get, despite the equally applicable UCI/WADA anti-doping code.