Idiot cyclist at Tower Hill last night

prj45

I don't RLJ,.

In my hour long commute through London I spend about seven minutes stopped.

This includes all stops though, including junctions with no lights, boxed in in traffic, right turns across the traffic flow and at junctions with lights that even the most ardent RLJer wouldn't go through.

So, I'm legal, not risking a £30.00 FPN, don't pi55 anybody off (at least for RLJing), and don't risk getting struck by cars coming through their green, all for the cost of five minutes or so; well worth it IMO.

Having said that, in the grand scheme of things I think people are going too far with demonising red light jumping cyclists, but I think its more the perception of them not doing as they're are told rather from any safety aspect.

Keep doing it though and they're going to have plates on your bikes, and possibly licenses, with charges to cover.

Is it worth it?

Gavin Gilbert

webbhost wrote:

what do other folks reckon. how much time can you actualy save by jumping red lights on your commute?

Guess that depends on how many traffic lights are in the way. I wait as I'd rather have a slightly longer trip to and from work than a trip to the hospital.

A couple of years ago I carried out that experiment using a GPS. Using the average times over a 24 mile round trip on a 5 day commuting week I spent 4.5 minutes stopped on the way in and 7.5 minutes stopped going home.

This time included stops at junctions where RLJing would have been impossible, e.g. Shepherds Bush Southern Roundabout and Hyde Park Corner.

BigBlackShed

I've posted this before but this does work on triggering traffic lights:

How To Trigger Traffic Lights

beesneez

webbhost wrote:

what do other folks reckon. how much time can you actualy save by jumping red lights on your commute?

IMO you don't save any time red light jumping. I think I'm the ONLY cylist in London that stops at red lights. Every day I pass numpty upon numpy, then the SAME numpty upon numpty passes me when I stop at pedestrian crossings/lights. Repeat process at least 5 times per commute. So I end up arriving the same time as RLJers.

Just get fitter, ride faster, then you won't feel the need to run lights.

Cyclists disobeying road rules give the wrong impression to car drivers - that they (cyclists) have no respect for personal safety or road rules, so why should they (cars) bother about you when they cut you off, run you into the curb or generally be an ar5ehole.

/rant

Bassjunkieuk

beesneez wrote:

IMO you don't save any time red light jumping. I think I'm the ONLY cylist in London that stops at red lights.

I also ride in London and do stop at red lights - if you should pull up along side a rather short guy on a black Giant SCR3 with a green high vis bib on say hello :-)

In my 18 months of commuting I've only ever seen 2 people been stopped by the police, and that's only because they where stupid enough to ride through a red when a policeman (or women!) was at the front of the queue! But I only think they got stopped as the coppers in question where on motorbikes, otherwise it might have been to much effort on their part!

el_presidente

I ride in London and stop at red lights!

Last night I saw two RLJers in front of a cop car who was second in the queue. Needless to say the cops ignored them, though to be fair it might have been overkill for John Q. Law to switch on the sirens and effect pursuit.

The Lunch

So many column inches spent on cycling RLJ ... they (we?) may out-number the cars, lorries & buses I see "taking a late amber" each morning but our impact (pardon the pun) is that much less.

So do we see the police stopping the buses that can't bother to stop? Not in my bit of W.London! Do light-jumping artic-drivers only get prosecuted if they kill?

We should be putting the effort into making the public put this all into perspective: lorries/buses kill, cyclists annoy.

But no-one would buy the Daily Mail (etc.) if it took that approach!

Totalnewbie

It does sometimes feel as though you are the only one that bothers, but I can always be found sitting at the red lights too. On the occasion that I am joined by another person, I do wonder if they are a member of this forum!

Gussio

Some interesting points in here: http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/ ... ds_tut_tut

"By all means pull over the idiots, but if the police force is wasting people's money on busting cyclists for harmless, petty rule infractions, there is obviously other work that's not getting done."

For the record, I also commute in London and stop at red lights (most of the time).

saveswalking

The Lunch wrote:

So many column inches spent on cycling RLJ ... they (we?) may out-number the cars, lorries & buses I see "taking a late amber" each morning but our impact (pardon the pun) is that much less.

So do we see the police stopping the buses that can't bother to stop? Not in my bit of W.London! Do light-jumping artic-drivers only get prosecuted if they kill?

We should be putting the effort into making the public put this all into perspective: lorries/buses kill, cyclists annoy.

But no-one would buy the Daily Mail (etc.) if it took that approach!

At last a bit of perspective . Traffic lights were designed for Motor Vehicles. I was stopped by a motorbike cop (a 'senior' one) after passing through a red light - didn't see him sitting there in the queue - so he pulled me up and fully understood that I "wanted to make progress" but felt obliged to stop me because we had an audience - otherwise he understands and has (or should have) more important things to be doing.



(of course I reported him to his superiors later for failing to do his job properly and he may lose his career)

sw

Bassjunkieuk

saveswalking wrote:

The Lunch wrote:

So many column inches spent on cycling RLJ ... they (we?) may out-number the cars, lorries & buses I see "taking a late amber" each morning but our impact (pardon the pun) is that much less.

So do we see the police stopping the buses that can't bother to stop? Not in my bit of W.London! Do light-jumping artic-drivers only get prosecuted if they kill?

We should be putting the effort into making the public put this all into perspective: lorries/buses kill, cyclists annoy.

But no-one would buy the Daily Mail (etc.) if it took that approach!

At last a bit of perspective . Traffic lights were designed for Motor Vehicles. I was stopped by a motorbike cop (a 'senior' one) after passing through a red light - didn't see him sitting there in the queue - so he pulled me up and fully understood that I "wanted to make progress" but felt obliged to stop me because we had an audience - otherwise he understands and has (or should have) more important things to be doing.



(of course I reported him to his superiors later for failing to do his job properly and he may lose his career)

sw

Actually I think traffic lights are designed for any traffic on the road, regardless of wheather it's a bike, car, bendy bus or HGV. With the exception of traffic light controlled pedestrian crossings most other sets of traffic lights are designed for the safe and efficient passage of traffic, usually stopping one flow of traffic so another can use the junction. By running these red lights you are putting not only yourself in danger but also those other road users who are using the junction. All it takes is for one motorist to take evasive action to avoid hitting a RLJ and they could collide with another car, whilst the cyclist may have gotten away un-scathed at least a couple of people just had their days ruinned at the least!

I get just as annoyed when I see car's and buses jump reds as I do when a cyclist does it. Both have about the same chance of being stopped for it after all and unfortunately most of the junctions I see the bad driving at are the ones with out the red light camera's!

I take onboard Reddragon's comments about the lights on his commute that won't activate when only a cyclist is there, and in that instance I think an argument could be made for going through but I think most people on here are talking about running red lights in built up urban area's such as London and the other major cities, where there are plenty of other road users about.

hamboman

Good god, why is everyone so sanctimonious?! Relax a bit, it's not really that naughty. English law has a tradition of just ignoring rules that no longer apply - like hanging etc - rather than repealing them. May I suggest the law requiring bikes to stop at red lights no longer really applies?

(awaits stream of abuse from the self-appointed gods of the road who obey every single law).

el_presidente

hamboman wrote:

Good god, why is everyone so sanctimonious?! Relax a bit, it's not really that naughty. English law has a tradition of just ignoring rules that no longer apply - like hanging etc - rather than repealing them. May I suggest the law requiring bikes to stop at red lights no longer really applies?

(awaits stream of abuse from the self-appointed gods of the road who obey every single law).

You are Attorney at Law Lionel Hutz AICM free shoe repair with every lawsuit

Eat My Dust

It getting like Spartacus on here!

"No, I commute in London and stop at red lights"

prj45

hamboman wrote:

Good god, why is everyone so sanctimonious?! Relax a bit, it's not really that naughty. English law has a tradition of just ignoring rules that no longer apply - like hanging etc - rather than repealing them. May I suggest the law requiring bikes to stop at red lights no longer really applies?

(awaits stream of abuse from the self-appointed gods of the road who obey every single law).

I can't do it, I just cant.

Regardless of the perspective issue, if one person breaks a law (and it IS illegal to go through a red light on a pushbike) it does spread.

If I did do it I couldn't bring myself to criticise other road users who break the law regardless of their mode of transport.

Squiggsy

I don't RLJ either - don't like to give any other users reason to get wound up.

Heck, I even get off the bike and walk through Greenwich Foot Tunnel.......

helz

hamboman wrote:

May I suggest the law requiring bikes to stop at red lights no longer really applies?

So you're saying that cyclists should have right of way at pedestrian crossings at all times, even when the light is red? This thread was about a pedestrian being hit by a cyclist at a pedestrian crossing. How can you say cyclists shouldn't have to stop at red lights?

Parkey

That's a good point. How can any cyclist who flouts a pretty fundamental traffic law have any right to criticise the behaviour of any other road user?

Pedestrians, often elderly people or children, are dependant on the safety offered by traffic lights to cross the road. Other road users, including other cyclists, use traffic lights to know when it is safe to proceed across a junction without conflicting traffic suddenly appearing from unexpected directions. I've certainly had to slam the brakes on when some fool has nipped across in front of me in spite of a red light, both on my bike and in my car.

To anyone who argues they can't cross a junction safely if they wait for a green light may I suggest they go back to school and get some sort of cycle training. To me the safety argument is simply a "wot I reckon" rationalisation of arrogance and impatience.

el_presidente

My regards to the to55er on a brompton who barged through the 30cm gap between me & the kerb this morning so you could RLJ. Yes you did say "excuse me", no I didn't acknowledge you but you pushed through anyway.

You might have noticed I caught you up within about 300m, luckliy it was a nice morning and I was in a good mood so I didn't bother to have a "conversation"