A roadie no more, where next?

russweb

Hi Everyone
Advice badly needed. I am a 45 year old bloke who has been into cycling for the last 7-8 years. Did a few triathlons, riding regularly for 25-30 miles and really enjoying it. 5 inutes from my house and I am out in the Essex countryside.
However, the last two years it has all gone wrong with a recurrent back problem. I have tried everyting and without boring you with all the details, I have finally decided on the advice of various docs, chiropractors etc. that I need to get off my nice Carbon TCR and adopt a more upright riding position.
Basically I loved that bike and want as much as possible the lightness and responsiveness of ride. I have a smallish budget - £750 tops. What should I be looking at? I knew my way round road bikes but know very little about hybrids etc.

Al advice very gratefully received

Russell

Bronzie

Would you consider a recumbent or is that too "dark-side" for you? Not sure you'd even get one on a budget of £750, but from what I gather, they are much kinder on your back.

russweb

hadn't thought about one, so nice idea. But doesn't work for me...

I just thought though, does anyone ride a flat bar road bike, does that alter the riding position much, or is just like riding on the tops...?

Russ

tarpaullynn

http://www.wheelies.co.uk/productdetail.asp?productcatalogue=13767

These bikes look like they have a very upright riding position.

sloboy

I guess the trick will be to understand just how much higher you need to be.

IIRC, TCR's are pretty low at the front. Take something like a Spesh Roubaix and it will let you get several centimetres higher no problem, and that does make a huge difference.

Flat bars in themselves make no difference, my flattie winter bike is set up just a tad lower than the tops on my summer bike

I'd suggest taking a look at some of the longer headtube designs.

meagain

"a flat bar road bike"

Some do I guess, though I find it difficult to define WHAT is a road/race-bke/flat-bar race-bike/hybrid! Certainly flats (whatever bike they be on) can alleviate back (and upper body generally) problems. A mate of mine who is far more into going quickly than I has been unable to ride drops following crushed ribs and has set up semi-race bikes and rigid 26" wheelers with some success. Got him going quite quickly again - and without pain!

Height differential saddle to bar tops also relevant I think.

I gave up drops a while ago. Can't see ANY point to them except for full on racing. Didn't hurt my back, but gave my elbows some beating. Flats and bar ends will give you all the adjustment you need I reckon.

sloxam

i too had chronic back problems. i still suffer at times but visit the chiropractor twice a year just to tune up. i bought a roubaix last year and never got off the bike in pain again. when it got nicked, i bought a synapse, which is imo even better.
my winter bike is an ocr and i flipped the stem to make it more upright, but i have got off it stiff a couple of times.

geoff_ss

russweb wrote:

hadn't thought about one, so nice idea. But doesn't work for me...

I just thought though, does anyone ride a flat bar road bike, does that alter the riding position much, or is just like riding on the tops...?

Russ

I converted my custom built 653 bike from drops to flat a couple of years ago for similar reasons. It's an audax-style bike with mudguards and carrier. I found I was comfortable with drops except when descending or needing to use the brakes (I've also lost my grip a bit so braking from the top isn't very effective) so my flat bars reproduce the riding on top position and bar ends give my a climbing position. It's big improvement for me but experiment is the only way to get it right for you.

I'm treating myself to a new bike. It's a Kinesis Tk08 audax frame. I'm thinking of using 'cowhorn style TT bars rather than straights plus bar ends.

Geoff

ForumNewbie

I found drop bars on my light tourer really uncomfortable and considered chaning to straight bars a few weeks ago, then I found this adjustable stem:
http://www.cyclesense.co.uk/products.ph ... 83s89p2637
which has raised my drops bars 3 inches - the hoods are now about an inch higher than my saddle and my riding position is much more comfortable.

Maybe that could be a way of solving your problem and keeping your racing bike??

russweb

Thanks guys

Some really useful advice. Think I need to talk to my chiropractor and work out exactly what I need to do position wise. But raising the stem, looking at shorter tube and flat bars all seem worth exploring. The synapse bikes look good?

Anyone got one?

Russ

Airfriday

. . . . Been there, expensive curve. Converted my road bike to flat bars. Changed all the levers/shifters too. Mmmmmm . . . now feels like someone else's bike! Still got back ache and numb hands.

Sold it bought another and another. Went through hybrids, MB's etc just to find something, anything that I could ride thats comfortable. Rode a Recumbent trike LOVED it! Got a new Trice QNT . . . . everyone should have one!
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ColinJ

russweb wrote:

Thanks guys

Some really useful advice. Think I need to talk to my chiropractor and work out exactly what I need to do position wise. But raising the stem, looking at shorter tube and flat bars all seem worth exploring. The synapse bikes look good?

Anyone got one?

Russ

Hi Russell.

I think you'll find that the average GP's advice regarding cycling and bachache would be "If it causes you problems, stop doing it." and/or "Take these 3 times a day."

When I went to a chiropractor with back problems, his advice was "Come and see me every week until the problem is fixed." 3 months and hundreds of pounds later it still wasn't fixed. I improved matters myself by changing the stem on my bike.

Unless you have a really serious problem with your back, I think you'd get be better off going to a decent bike shop and getting them to check your position on your bike.

Also, depending on what your back problem is caused by - stretching and core strength-building exercises might help.

russweb

Hi Colin

Yes, you're right about core strength, this is part of the plan. Agree about the cost of chiropractors too...

Russ

fossyant

Check out last weeks cycling weekly - lots of exercises for core stability and stretching.

synchronicity

Have you got a photo of your current bike?
Have you tried simply flipping the stem over?

ricadus

5 minutes from the countryside? Need a more upright position?

Sounds like you could switch to MTB.

russweb

I did wonder about that, not that I want to go off road. TO be honest, it's the getting out in the open air and getting that adrenaline rush and wanting to pedal hard and fast ((sometimes anyway). Mountain bike or hybrid? What do you reckon?

Shadowduck

russweb wrote:

Mountain bike or hybrid? What do you reckon?

Generally I'd say hybrids are the worst of both worlds, but if you want an upright position on a road-oriented bike you might find one to suit you. An MTB is the last thing I'd pick for road use - wonderful things in context but that context isn't on tarmac.

russweb

Am tempted to look at Cannondale Bad boy or synapse, any views out there?

notsoracy rich

As a fellow roadie with a duff back,perhaps I can offer some advice.

If you enjoy cycling on the roads in Essex (as I do) you won't enjoy it so much on a Mountain bike-better than nothing,but nowhere near as nice as your tcr.

I find bumps transmitted from the road surface stir my back up , and the best remedy I have found is a Titanium road bike, although a good steel frame is almost the same for comfort.

However, if its the stretched out position on your tcr that gives you grief, as suggested by another contributor, I would first try an adjustable stem, as this can help raise the bars, and might help with your problem.

Cycling is similar in movements to swimming, and can actually help your back, it certainly helped mine for the last 15 odd years, its only now that my osteoarthritis has got worse that I find long rides start gettting painful, but we're roadies and if it doesn't hurt we're not trying hard enough!

I have also recently biught a Giant SCR to use as a winter bike, and find that its reasonably comfortable with a higher position ,while still handling like a road bike should.Perhaps you could borrow a more upright bike from a mate to try to see if you get on with it?

Hope this helps,

Rich.

JWSurrey

I used to get a bad back cycling, on my old off-the-shelf racer from 20 years ago.
I'll echo what's been said here...

Worth getting a decent fit at a decent bike shop.
Had mine done at Condor, but for a more specific and intense fit, try Cyclefit in Macklin Street, Central London. They charge specifically for the analysis, so there's no pressure to buy a bike as part of the deal, if my memory serves me correctly.
They'll also analyse your pedal action.

In the first instance:
You could try a shorter riser stem, as previously mentioned.
Obviously, if you shorten the stem, you need one that's the same diameter as your bars.

Try these bars - I bought a pair, and they're very good.
It doesn't look very pronounced in the picture, however the tops are looped back, so that if you "sit on the bar tops", you can sit a lot more upright and further back than you can with normal straight topped bars. You will need to buy longer cables and longer outers though, so maybe worth getting the local bike shop to fit them.

Ribble have them on their site, and Condor can source them too....
ITM Marathon bars.

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/details.a ... ALHBAR0200

Have you tried fitting flat bars to your current bike?

JWSurrey

Just another thought - Try 25c tyres, which will be less jarring to ride, and possibly a pair of handbuilt wheels with double-butted spokes and standard section rims with a 3x spoking pattern - These may make for a softer ride.

sean65

Thorn Raven Tour can be set up for a more relaxed ride with their comfort bar option.

Great bike. Wish I could afford one.

One consideration is the geometry of the frame. It's not just a question of bars and stems.

The good news is that you can still enjoy cycling but the tricky bit is finding the right bike without having ridden them for any length of time.

Good luck.

russweb

Thanks guys, this has been very helpful to me in thinking it through

Russell

ColinJ

JWSurrey wrote:

Just another thought - Try 25c tyres, which will be less jarring to ride

I'd agree with that - I've been riding Krylions in 25c until the last lot wore out. I couldn't find anyone stocking that size, so I've had to go back to 23c again.

Another thing that helps - don't use the maximum pressures printed on the tyres. Experiment with lower pressures and you should find that helps. If you go too low, you'll get 'snakebite' punctures or the tyres will feel sluggish. Too high and you'll be sacrificing a lot of comfort for a little extra performance.

Blonde

I am not sure that I can agree with Ricardus that MTB-ing will be a good idea if you have a bad back. I thought it was harder on your body in terms of the vibrations and impact than road riding.

Is it possible for you to re-use the parts off the old bike and just sell the frame/fork? If so, you could get an 'audax' type frame and fork along the lines of a titanium Van Nicholas Yukon for around £700 and re-use the parts from your older bike. These audax style frames have a more upright position than a pure race bike - the head tube is longer. Ti is meant to be a nice material for a comfortable ride too without being sluggish. Shame your budget does not stretch that bit further, or you could have gone custom build to get a road bike that's right for your your back. If you cant stretch to Ti, an Audax style bike made from steel may be a good choice and you may be able to get one of those second hand if a new one is out of the budget. I'd agree with the others that if you can afford it a proper cycle fit is the ideal. It really does make a difference - especially if you have existing pain issues. I went to ClceFit in London and with them, you fill in a pre-fitting questionnaire so they know what issues you have before you go. They then do a complete fitting, measuring and using video analysis as well as measuring your flexibility. My fitting also included them re-positioning my cleats, making custom foot beds and putting wedges under one of my cleats. They look at all cases individually and will suggest riding positions, bike frame measurements, stretching and other exercises as well as orthotics if needed. Don't know if it's any help, but they gave me a longer top tube (not shorter) but a much longer head tube and thus higher stem/bars which means the back if almost flat (not hunched) yet the bars are not too low. Stretched out but higher up (saddle level with bars) is the position that other cycle fitters seem to aim for these days as well. It keeps the back elongated and flat, not hunched, or twisted and with no stress on the neck - no looking upwards to see the road when on the drops.

Regarding tyres: I have found that the ride quality of the frame and forks, the quality of wheel build and quality of tyre makes more difference to comfort than the tyre size. If comfort is your main concern, choose tyres with a high threads per square inch count. They are more expensive but feel softer/more comfortable. However they tend to wear faster so there is always a compromise between comfort and longevity.

meagain

"...around £700 and re-use the parts from your older bike. These audax style frames have a more upright position than a pure race bike - the head tube is longer."

IF it's simply a question of a more upright position, can be done for a lot less than 700 quid! Even if a new stem won't reduce the saddle/bars height differential sufficiently (steerer tubes are often cut way too short to allow for the sort of future changes that might as here prove necessary!), then a new fork will do the job.

But the issue might be more than just "upright".

jpembroke

Cyclocross bikes generally have shorter top tubes, steeper seat tubes, and more relaxed head tubes, which would make for a more comfortable bike. And if you get one with a long head tube - like the Planet X Uncle John - then you would have a much more upright position than you would on a road bike. Worth a look perhaps.

oldwelshman

When I went to a chiropractor with back problems, his advice was "Come and see me every week until the problem is fixed." 3 months and hundreds of pounds later it still wasn't fixed.

Thats not a surprise
Look at what "real" doctors think of chirpractors, they see tem as quacks and offer no real benefit to patients.

Blonde

meagain wrote:

"...around £700 and re-use the parts from your older bike. These audax style frames have a more upright position than a pure race bike - the head tube is longer."

IF it's simply a question of a more upright position, can be done for a lot less than 700 quid! Even if a new stem won't reduce the saddle/bars height differential sufficiently (steerer tubes are often cut way too short to allow for the sort of future changes that might as here prove necessary!), then a new fork will do the job. But the issue might be more than just 'upright'

The OP gave us a budget of £750. I was stating that this would in fact be within that budget. I am considering a Ti audax frame myself. I require a longer head tube than most men do due to the usual women's longer kegs than torso factor, so an audax of custom build is what I will be going for. I know that the geometry of audax bikes in general is such that they give you a higher handle bar anyway and this is a more satisfactory way than simply putting a longer stem onto an existing bike - which I had assumed the OP would already have tried and it will only give a limited rise anyway. If you just get a new fork don't get one with a carbon fibre steerer as, you cant simply cut it longer. It's a bad idea, so I have been told. I also recommended Ti or steel as a more comfortable bike frame material if the OP is primarily concerned with comfort - which I think he is, rather than it only being a case of getting a more 'upright' position.

To the OP - In terms of back issues, (rather then simply bike issues), if you haven't already, you might like to visit a private sports physiotherapist registered with the CSP. I've found them to be very good and a lot more satisfactory than NHS GPs and specialists for the issue I went to see them about. A sports Physio will not tell you to stop cycling but will try to find a way to alleviate pain (through very specific exercises, stretches and postural alignment techniques) so you can still ride. Try to find one who understands not just sports, but cycling, as they will be able to help you with position and postural alignment on the bike as well as off it. Use the CSP website to find registered sports physios in your area, then ring them to find out if they have any cycling specific knowledge.

Nuggs

oldwelshman wrote:

When I went to a chiropractor with back problems, his advice was "Come and see me every week until the problem is fixed." 3 months and hundreds of pounds later it still wasn't fixed.

Thats not a surprise
Look at what "real" doctors think of chirpractors, they see tem as quacks and offer no real benefit to patients.

I have been suffering from chronic back problems for the past year. When they first surfaced, I went to an osteopath who cracked me about a bit and told me to keep visiting them.

Not having made any recovery, I went to see a physio. Given my conditions, she refused to touch me and referred me to a neurosurgeon. 9 months on and I was finally diagnosed with a massive anterior puncture to my L5/S1 disc. I've just had the op to fix it and am still recovering (rather painfully).

I often wonder how long the osteopath would have just kept going...