Potholes and compensation

pdsidd

Hi
Have had a recent fall after hitting a pothole resulting in a broken wrist that's keeping me off the road for some weeks. Does anyone have any experience in seeking compensation from local authorities for such an event. Problem I have is no witnesses as it was 6:30ish in the morning on a country road but my GPS stops at approximately the spot that I fell off and have got maps and photos and what have you.

Would be grateful for any info/feedback.

Many thanks
Paul
http://www.sidsjourney.blogspot.com/

spen666

pdsidd wrote:

Hi
Have had a recent fall after hitting a pothole resulting in a broken wrist that's keeping me off the road for some weeks. Does anyone have any experience in seeking compensation from local authorities for such an event. Problem I have is no witnesses as it was 6:30ish in the morning on a country road but my GPS stops at approximately the spot that I fell off and have got maps and photos and what have you.

Would be grateful for any info/feedback.

Many thanks
Paul
http://www.sidsjourney.blogspot.com/

seek legal advice

pdsidd

Will do.

pdsidd

I contacted a legal firm. They told me that it's a hard thing to get a result from as the Council's have some get-out clauses. The advice they gave me was to write a letter to the council asking the following questions:-

1). Could you provide me with details of the council's road inspection regime.
2). Has the pothole been reported by anyone else.
3). Have there been any accidents reported at the same scene.

The legal firm also told me that the Council's standard defense will be that the cyclist was not taking sufficient care, should know the road inside out, should be lit up like a christmas tree and be able to jump through hoops blindfolded and stuff.

Will let post info with how I got on but am not at all confident.

PhilofCas

Seems ridiculous that you haven't a case when people invent falls and claim thousands. How do people claim for damage to their cars that have hit pot holes ?, maybe worth investigating this and pursuing similar lines.

pdsidd

PhilofCas wrote:

Seems ridiculous that you haven't a case when people invent falls and claim thousands. How do people claim for damage to their cars that have hit pot holes ?, maybe worth investigating this and pursuing similar lines.

Its pretty much the same, if reported and council ignores the report and the someone breaks an alloy or ruins their suspension they have a claim. However, if no-one has reported it and I've ridden down the road at 10mph or more than it's no-one's fault but my own!

Am probably being negative about it you never know I might get some compensation. Was a bit disheartened to find out that it's still not coned off even though I emailed both police and council.

PhilofCas

it's a bit like saying, 'pay me for providing a road for you to drive on, though if that road is faulty you can't make a claim on me as i am not responsible for the state of it', or 'i am not liable until someone tells me i have a problem with it'.
If the road has 'failed', i.e. developed a hole then is there no case for saying that they didn't show due diligence ?

PhilofCas

just been looking at your blog wotsit and the picture of the hole shows to me that it's 'old', why on earth are they not responsible for that ?, i'm trying me bestest to help !!!

pdsidd

PhilofCas wrote:

just been looking at your blog wotsit and the picture of the hole shows to me that it's 'old', why on earth are they not responsible for that ?, i'm trying me bestest to help !!!

Cheers Phil, have not given up but speaking to the legal people didn't fill me with confidence. Have done the letter they recommended but I think if there was any confidence at all in the claim they'd be in there like a flash doing the letter for me!!!

Thanks for the support from everyone - keep reporting the holes says I!!!

alfablue

pdsidd

Sometimes people are just not interested, the lawyers may not be interested in cyclists or the relatively small claim. Sometimes you need to push things yourself. For example (unrelated, but same principle) my son was unfairly dismissed, physically assaulted, and paid below the minimum wage. The trade union solicitor was uninterested, and said there was less than 50% prospect of success so wouldn't pursue it. I calculated the costs and damages to my son, and prepared an application to the employment tribunal. I told the lawyer that there clearly was a case and I would pursue it if he didn't. He changed his tune, and within 6 weeks we had an out of court settlement for £6500. If we had been dissuaded by the initial reaction my son would have had nothing!

Throughout my life I have been told by naysayers that "this won't work" or "you can't do that" etc, almost always when I haven't taken no for an answer, and done my own research, I have proven the naysayers wrong.

Try a new lawyer - preferably one experienced in cycling claims. Alternatively pursue it yourself, but above all, expect to get recompense, act like a winner, not a loser.

pdsidd

alfablue wrote:

pdsidd

Sometimes people are just not interested, the lawyers may not be interested in cyclists or the relatively small claim. Sometimes you need to push things yourself. For example (unrelated, but same principle) my son was unfairly dismissed, physically assaulted, and paid below the minimum wage. The trade union solicitor was uninterested, and said there was less than 50% prospect of success so wouldn't pursue it. I calculated the costs and damages to my son, and prepared an application to the employment tribunal. I told the lawyer that there clearly was a case and I would pursue it if he didn't. He changed his tune, and within 6 weeks we had an out of court settlement for £6500. If we had been dissuaded by the initial reaction my son would have had nothing!

Throughout my life I have been told by naysayers that "this won't work" or "you can't do that" etc, almost always when I haven't taken no for an answer, and done my own research, I have proven the naysayers wrong.

Try a new lawyer - preferably one experienced in cycling claims. Alternatively pursue it yourself, but above all, expect to get recompense, act like a winner, not a loser.

Will do - am waiting on response from council at the moment

KeithG

Join the CTC and use their legal advice option, they have a tame solicitor who does a lot of cycling work.

PhilofCas

KeithG wrote:

Join the CTC and use their legal advice option, they have a tame solicitor who does a lot of cycling work.

surely you want an agressive, hard b*stard solicitor, not a tame one ?

pdsidd

Although am not confident of getting anything from council at least some action has been taken re. pothole in question. They've done a quick fix tarmac in the hole job but more importantly they've marked off the whole area as if some proper repair is on the way, which has to be good news for any other cyclists using the road!





Just goes to show - use the http://www.fillthathole.org.uk website and things do get fixed!

PhilofCas

suppose you've now got admission that the road was not fit for purpose

nwallace

Potholes = Hazard,
Avoid hazards, manoeuvre around them.
Control of your vehicle is your responsibility, therefore if you hit a pot hole it's your own fault.
The council didn't force you to hit the pot hole.
etc
etc
etc

However,
The roads are their property and they have public liability on their property, it seems to be that you need to show that they are failing somewhere in their responsibilities.
Which I guess is where the 3 questions come from

1). Could you provide me with details of the council's road inspection regime.
2). Has the pothole been reported by anyone else.
3). Have there been any accidents reported at the same scene.

All 3 of those questions can be translated to, Do the council know about it.

If it wasn't for the cycling and motoring lobbies in the early part of the last century roads wouldn't have been developed from compacted dirt tracks in the country and cobbles in the cities with tramways in the way they were.

pdsidd

PhilofCas wrote:

suppose you've now got admission that the road was not fit for purpose

No, they'd not do that!! However, I've had confirmation that they've received my letter and it has been passed onto the Council's insurance dept, which is good news.

Have been to hospital today and they're saying that bones aren't broken after all so am going to be back on road tomorrow which is even better news!

PhilofCas

pdsidd wrote:

PhilofCas wrote:

suppose you've now got admission that the road was not fit for purpose

No, they'd not do that!! However, I've had confirmation that they've received my letter and it has been passed onto the Council's insurance dept, which is good news.

Have been to hospital today and they're saying that bones aren't broken after all so am going to be back on road tomorrow which is even better news!

that's a bit of a result, nice weather too !!!

pdsidd

PhilofCas wrote:

pdsidd wrote:

PhilofCas wrote:

suppose you've now got admission that the road was not fit for purpose

No, they'd not do that!! However, I've had confirmation that they've received my letter and it has been passed onto the Council's insurance dept, which is good news.

Have been to hospital today and they're saying that bones aren't broken after all so am going to be back on road tomorrow which is even better news!

that's a bit of a result, nice weather too !!!

Certainly is, still a bit sprained but will be right in a week or two I think.

fortyone

Keep at them - years ago I came off after part of a road sign was sticking out into a dual carriageway; not properly weighted down. I wrote to the Secretary of State's office and it was dealt with quickly after that.

cusimar9

I'm going through something similar at the moment.

In May 2007 I came off my bike after going over a pot hole and hit the floor. I broke 3 teeth, and needed 17 stitches to my face. Had to drink through a straw for a week, and generally it was unpleasant.

When I went back to pick up my things from the neighbours they told me the pothole had been there for about a year and I could see it was clearly marked with yellow paint. The pothole was about 40-45mm deep and at the bottom of a hill.

The council sent someone out to meet me, take photos and ask me questions. When we went to look at the pothole he measured the depth of the hole and took photos (all of which I have) and apologised unreservedly for the accident.

I wrote to the council who initially fobbed me off, saying the road was regularly inspected and was fine. Interestingly, they also sent me back all their records for maintenance on that road, and they show that the pothole was marked for repair about 10 weeks prior to my accident. The pothole was marked as "Category 1defect - 3 days" which implies to me it was a serious pothole and should have been repaired promptly.

I wrote them back with letters from the neighbours confirming that the pothole has been a problem for a long time, and with photographic evidence of the depth of the pothole. All I've been asking for is about £300 for the repair to my bike and about £500 for the repair to my teeth, but they've been completely unwilling to help. Its been 10 months now, and I'm about to start making enquiries with solicitors.

I appreciate accidents happen. I don't know why I rode over the pothole, I've lost my memory of the accident. Maybe there was a car overtaking, it was on a main road after all. The bottom line is it was a massive pothole at the bottom of a hill, which the council had known about for several weeks / months before my accident. Even after I told them about it it took over a month to fix it.

It'll be interesting to hear what the solicitors say when I go and see them in a few weeks.

PhilofCas

I hope you absolutely stuff the w*nkers, this is just diabolical, they'd have you in court in no time at all if you failed to buy RFL/Council Tax and there's a fair chance the decision makers are pocketing unearthly bonuses for 'meeting targets', it's pathetic.

alfablue

Cusimar, it seems to me that you should have a very strong case, not least because the council themselves have provided you with damning evidence of their negligence (they knew of the problem yet did nothing). They will of course spin it out forever in the hope you give up (so many people do!).

A solicitor is a good idea and I am sure that will concentrate the minds, and given there is a personal injury and this is more complex, a solicitor is the way to go.

I have made some claims in the past (different issues to yours) and what has got them moving is when I send a recorded delivery letter entitled "Notice prior to action", spelling out the evidence and the claim, and saying that I am giving then 7 days to settle the claim or I will take legal proceedings (which I fully intended to do as soon as the 7 days were up), and that all of my costs in pursuing the claim will be added to the claim (so costs of letters, phone calls, photographs, travel, time, court fees etc).

These days you can easily make a claim through Her Majesty's Court Service Moneyclaim Online web site. It is very easy and quite cheap (the claim includes your court fee). It is the same as going to the small claims court, but you can do it online.

I think the sum of £500 is too low for the personal injury aspect.

Anyway, the above do it yourself approach is probably not the best with personal injury (though I would have no hesitation if it was just bike damage), so good luck with the solicitors; do let us know.

cusimar9

Funnily enough I went through a court case about 18 months ago (the details of which I'll spare you) but it was a small claim against an international company. I represented myself, took them to court and won

I do think my best option in this case however is to get a solicitor involved. Personal injury claims sound more complicated than what I went through and I'd rather someone else did all the hard work for me this time. Although I've already collected all the evidence I need.

I don't mean to make a habit of going to court, looks like I've just been unlucky recently :?

alfablue

cusimar9 wrote:

Funnily enough I went through a court case about 18 months ago (the details of which I'll spare you) but it was a small claim against an international company. I represented myself, took them to court and won

I do think my best option in this case however is to get a solicitor involved. Personal injury claims sound more complicated than what I went through and I'd rather someone else did all the hard work for me this time. Although I've already collected all the evidence I need.

I don't mean to make a habit of going to court, looks like I've just been unlucky recently :?

Hey, victory for the little guy! Well done cusimar.