Handbuilt Wheels

millar time

In the absence of money for a new bike, I thought I could treat myself to a nice pair of handbuilt wheels, with a fair sized budget. I was thinking of Hope Pro III or Tune Mig/Mag on Mavic Open Pro, would these fit the bill of being a) light b) stiff c) durable?

Has anyone any experience of a similar build to these? Also I notice Mavic do an Open Pro ceramic, what advantage does a ceramic rim give you?

Thanks.

simbil1

A ceramic coated rim gives better wet braking and stops the rim waring as quickly although once the ceramic coat starts to go the rim is useless. Be sure to get proper ceramic compatible pads like the green swiss stops (very good braking).
32 hole hand built wheels should be stiff enough if properly built, mine are stiffer than any factory wheel I have ridden and they are durable in the sense that you can re-true them and they are strong enough to take some abuse (depending on the rim a bit too).
They are not quite as light as reduces spoke count wheels, but the difference is very very small. My hand built wheels weigh in at 995g rear and 765g front without QR or cassette [Ambrosio Excellight SSC on Ambrosio hubs 32H, £220]. I could have saved more weight on the front by going reduced spoke count or radial pattern, but I'm very happy with its solid feel with 32 spokes and a crossed pattern.

mrushton

simbil1 wrote:

A ceramic coated rim gives better wet braking and stops the rim waring as quickly although once the ceramic coat starts to go the rim is useless. Be sure to get proper ceramic compatible pads like the green swiss stops (very good braking).

Note that the rims will give a LOT of miles (50k +) before the coating wears off., subject of course to the amont of brake use and weather

simbil1

mrushton wrote:

Note that the rims will give a LOT of miles (50k +) before the coating wears off., subject of course to the amont of brake use and weather

Sure, my last ones lasted 6 years off road whereas I was going through standard rims 1 a year. They are great if you can afford them.

pcd993

I have tune hubs and I would not recommend them particularly. The dura ace hubs I have on another set of wheels have proved smoother and more durable - as well as being cheaper. They are a bit heavier but so what. The DT Swiss hubs might be good too, but I have not tried them. I have some hope hubs on a mountain bike and these are OK, but not outstanding.

I used to have a pair of ceramic rims and the braking was indeed great. Having said that, I have a standard set of Mavic OPs and the braking on these is pretty good too.

Don't be tempted to go with a radial spoke pattern on handbuilts - you really do lose strength.

SDP

I have the exact combo

TUNE hubs ( black ) on OP Ceramic built 32h 3X with Sapim CX ray ...came in lighter than a pair of ksyriums...TBH not used them much yet but they are a fine wheel ..

got them with DA cassette & mavic Ti skewers./GP4000S & supersonic tubes...
i also use green swisstop pads. ceramic compatible

i could have had ANY wheels for my TCR but these are what i chose & had built at Echelon in pershore..

ring Tim for advice on hubs etc..he does TUNE/DT etc etc ...if i had been having them built for Wet weather i would poss have had DT190's or 240s ..
if you want any further info email me

aracer

What problems have you had with Tune hubs? I've got them on my MTB, and no problems yet after 2 years with no maintenance (in worse conditions than I'd expect to get on the road).

pcd993 wrote:

Don't be tempted to go with a radial spoke pattern on handbuilts - you really do lose strength.

Assuming you're only doing this on the front wheel, then it makes almost no difference to wheel strength - the only issue is whether the hub is strong enough, as it does put higher loading on the flanges.

JWSurrey

There was a lovely pair of black Tune hubs with differential (DS crossed, NDS radial) lacing to black Open Pro rims (black spokes) in Condor on sale a couple of weeks ago - they may still be there - They were downstairs by the road bikes.

Open Pro come with two types of hardening:
The Open Pro CDs, which I have, are a dark grey colour - These have a hard anodising on them.
The Open Pro ceramics are substantially more money. There were some posts to say that they were cracking - Perhaps caused by differential oxidisation of the rim material.
The guy in Cycles Dauphin agreed that his had cracked - after something like 5,000 miles of serious continental use!!
I've never ridden the OP ceramics, however I understand the braking is much improved, especially under wet conditions.

I have OP CDs built by Condor - very good solid wheels... Radially laced front and traditional 3x rear (32H, straight gauge spokes).

The OP rim, according to various posts, is stiffer than most others.
They feel solid and durable without being crashy, in the build I have, compared against Campag. factory wheels and my other pair:

DT Swiss RR1.1 double eyelet rim - I bought these because they come with wear indicators, are the same weight and a similar design to the Mavics.
The braking surfaces are not as good, and in the build I have - they are very good, although slightly less solid than my Open Pros.

I prefer the direct solid feel of my 32H radial front wheel with straight gauge spokes vs. the ultra-fine double butted 3x DT RR1.1 front wheel I have.

I investigated Ambrosios, however a number of thread responders noted they were perhaps not as robust as the other options, being slightly more flexy and care needing to be taken with regard to robustness.

In short - Open Pros are the way to go IMHO - CDs offer enhanced rim life. Ceramics - Well, if you have the money then go for it.

Hub wise, I really liked the Tunes, but could not justify the expense/weight trade off - I preferred the idea of Campag. Record. I settled for Centaur as these are training/all season wheels, and the cost/fiddle factor of replacement centaur cartridge bearings outweighed the Record bearing option.

A recent review I read noted that ceramic does not make a better bearing - It's just that ceramic bearings are of a higher grade - i.e. Are rounder and smoother.

DT Swiss hubs look nice, however i've never seen one in the flesh.
The RR1.1 rim in single eyelet guise had a reputation for cracking and the spokes pulling through. The guys at the LBS said they thought they were good enough, and no less reliable than other rims though.

mrushton

I have mentioed on other threads that someone I know who lives in the French Alps has OPs (ceramic) laced to DA hubs and he really rates them. They look v.nice with the Sapim X-Ray. He is tied into Cyclefit and Serotta and gets to see/try all the nice wheels, but still uses the OPs for everyday, all-weather use.

JWSurrey

mrushton wrote:

....Sapim X-Ray......

Ooh, yes - The Sapim CX-Rays look great, and are lighter than the DBs, plus from the tests on their site, are stronger too.

http://www.sapim.be

aracer

Bear in mind that whilst the CX-Rays themselves are stronger, they're less stiff, and therefore build a wheel which is both a bot less stiff and weaker. Mind you, the set I'm building are with CX-Rays, but I'm light enough and don't tend to hit potholes hard, so it's not an issue - if you're heavy or ride really poor surfaces they may not be the best choice.

Monty Dog

IMO ceramic rims aren't really needed on a normal road bike - only really for laden touring. I'm not sure that the cost of CX-Rays justifies the benefit - as the spokes only come in 20's, you have to buy 4 packs for a pair of wheels which works out at £160 - so you easily spend £350-400 for the parts and they wouldn't be as strong as something like a Neutron which can be bought for the same money.