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Nigel dean Frames and Sachs Rival Groupset

scooterboyscooterboy Posts: 843
edited May 2010 in Road general
I just picked up a rather delightful Nigel Dean Avenir - 531C tubing with a full Sachs Rival 6000 Aris groupset. The bike is complete - guards etc but has been stored for probably the last 5-7 years at least. The frame and fork is 531 and it has mud guard eyes, frame pump peg and a chain saver peg on the rear stay, Nice cut out lugs - i havent checked the b/b shell. No chrome - its all painted.

Im guessing its a mid to late 80's bike? but i'd like to know a little more about ND frames as all i can recall is reading odd reviews circa '89 (and that he was a sucessfull rider) along with some info on the sachs groupset (it has those pre campag Ergo style plastic brake levers and downtube 7 speed indexed shifters).Hubs, mechs and brakes are also Sachs Rival. Bars and stem are 3T. Im guessing it would have been around £800ish new back then. The whole thing needs a clean up but its nothing an ample application of muc off and a wash, grease and chain oil wont sort!!

I will try and sort some pics as time allows.

Posts

  • Monty DogMonty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Back in late 1980s there were a lot of 531c frames produced of variable quality and badged-up by the various shops and typically sold for £150-200 for F+F - so £800 for a complete bike is about right. I think ND went bust in the late 90's along with many UK builders as imported frames became relatively cheaper, the markets demanded alloy and carbon rather than steel frames of sometimes extremely variable quality. I think ND had a factory somewhere in the North East at the time, producing lots of OEM frames in Reynolds tubing.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • Im not sure this is a cheapo 531C frame as the attention to detail is pretty good (with the cut out lugs and additional details) but inevitably it would have been an OEM off the peg model.

    I recall Raleigh used to make alot of the OEM frames - i had a Fred Baker one that was a Raleigh branded for the Bristol Shop and WAS cheap indeed!!

    The Sachs stuff never appealed to me back than as i favoured Campag initailly and moved over to Shimano later. It all looks pretty servicable though in restrospect and seems to have lasted reasonably well. Are Sachs now owned by SRAM??
  • bagpusscpbagpusscp Posts: 2,907
    Some high end Sachs was made in Italy by either Gipemmie{ I think thats how you spell it}or maybe even Camapagnolo?Some pics would help . Look on the back of the rear mech.
    bagpuss
  • Nigel Dean bikes were sold by Ron Kitching in the early 1990s. The 531 tubed framesets were the better quality machines. Ron always tried to competed on price and his 'Everything Cycling' catalogue used to be a required read that was pored over at one stage. Not everything he imported was of a lower quality although it was often cheaper than Campag. TA, Maxicar Hubs, Suntour and Zeus were some of the lines he imported at one time.

    The Sachs mechs should work well. Don't be put off, it sounds like you have a nice bike.
  • nigel dean, now that takes me back.
    still have my nigel dean winter training frame in the loft that i brought from them back in 1990. Made from reynolds 525 tubing and has a great pearl white / red two tone cris cross fade paint job. Used to work in the trade in crawley so got it for about £200.
    Fitted it out with some old s record components from the mid 80's and sachs retro levers.
  • bonk manbonk man Posts: 1,054
    I have recently sold my Dean to a club mate.
    It is a pretty rare custom built Reynolds 708 tubed frame with Cinelli lugs, oh those beautiful lugs...... No doubt I will have to buy it back off him one day.. very stiff frame, I should have gone for the 653 or 531c but oh those lugs....oh god and that slotted bottom bracket shell.....................


    Oh yeh they are good frames.................... if yours has cut out lugs it would have been a bit more posh than a bog standard frame.
    Club rides are for sheep
  • acorn_useracorn_user Posts: 1,137
    Sram did buy Sachs. The new success group featured a Campagnolo Crankset as well as the ergo power levers later on in its life. I think the brakesets were made by Modolo. I like how they look similar to the new Rival group brakes.
  • SamWise72SamWise72 Posts: 453
    Nigel Dean was a pro racer, who then produced his own bikes in a small shop for around 10 years in the 80's/90's. There's also some connection to Ernie Clements, though I forget what (you'd need to ask the likes of Norris Locksley, on ClassicRendezvous). I have one, and it seems an excellent frame - certainly not a cheap and cheerful. Here's my Nigel frame, built up as a fixed gear:

    P1260005.jpg
    MiniLogo-1.jpg
    http://www.velochocolate.co.uk Special Treats for Lifestyle Cyclists

    From FCN from 8 (road bike, beard, bag, work clothes) to 15 (on my Brompton)
  • How nice to see a thread on Nigel Deans. I bought my Nigel Dean Tour Ace on Ebay in the summer of 2007 and cycled it from John o Groats to Land's End that September, unassisted, in 11 days. It was the perfect choice and is a great bike.

    It's old school and I'm finding, as I come to replace components, there are regular surprises as everything is from bygone times. It doesn't have a normal freewheel, it has odd sized Sachs Rival 7000 cranks and chainset.

    Do you know what, though? It's still absolutely great and it's a 531 frame that you couldn't buy today for the £350 I paid for the entire bike. See www.8wire.co.uk/jamie.html for glimpses of the bike. I'd love to know more about Deans, if anyone knows more.
  • I had a custom 753 time trial frame made by Nigel Dean in mid-90s. Superb quality of build and still the best riding frame I've ever had. Sold it to a club mate who sprayed it pink; what's wrong with some people??! :?
  • Good to find something more about Nigel Dean bikes. I bought a Nigel Dean bike with a 5-3-1 frame a few weeks ago for £120. I'm thrilled with it. I haven't used my hybrid to commute since. Unusually for any road bike I've seen it has the gear levers on the end of the drops. One guy thought it might be an arrangement for cyclo-cross plus it has space for wider tyres. Anyone familiar with this?
    .
    "Let not the sands of time get in your lunch"

    National Lampoon
  • bonk manbonk man Posts: 1,054
    Probably a tourer, might be one built for cross racing but more likely a touring bike originally. Dean did make frames to special order, mine was one of these so yours could be.
    It would be quicker than the hybrid :D
    Club rides are for sheep
  • Hi Guys

    Great to read some notes from other Nigel Dean owners - falmouthbiker - you got a bargain! As you probably found out, the frames are well setup and I love using mine - so smooth ride and excellent at putting to power onto the wheels. The tubes are 531ST - perfect for touring which was what I was looking for.

    I bought mine in 1991 just as Nigel Dean went out of business for around £550 (his operation was in Brigg - just south of Hull on the south side of the river Humber).

    NigelDeanTourMaster21speedSuntourXC.jpg

    It is fitted with a 21 gear Suntour groupset which has served me well. I admit I don't use it as much as I should and have not toured with it yet! I did change the set a few years back to a gell one! :o It has lugs for every possible add-on - I have rear panniers but it could also take front ones.

    I recently changed my downtube gear changers for some shimano sora STI levers - they are great and I wonder what took me so long to make the switch!
  • If anyone is offered a white Nigel Dean, please let me know. It was stolen a couple of days ago
  • going to be selling my old 1990 nigel dean mentioned above in the classified section soon, so if any one is interested then pm me
  • Nottsflyer wrote:
    Hi Guys
    Hi, Nice review, Can you tell me your frame no as I want to put a date on one I am going to buy next week. Also did you use the Suntour front and rear delaiurs? if so any problems? Cheers Ian.

    Great to read some notes from other Nigel Dean owners - falmouthbiker - you got a bargain! As you probably found out, the frames are well setup and I love using mine - so smooth ride and excellent at putting to power onto the wheels. The tubes are 531ST - perfect for touring which was what I was looking for.

    I bought mine in 1991 just as Nigel Dean went out of business for around £550 (his operation was in Brigg - just south of Hull on the south side of the river Humber).

    NigelDeanTourMaster21speedSuntourXC.jpg

    It is fitted with a 21 gear Suntour groupset which has served me well. I admit I don't use it as much as I should and have not toured with it yet! I did change the set a few years back to a gell one! :o It has lugs for every possible add-on - I have rear panniers but it could also take front ones.

    I recently changed my downtube gear changers for some shimano sora STI levers - they are great and I wonder what took me so long to make the switch!
  • mz__jomz__jo Posts: 398
    For information the Sachs derailleur was made by the Huret factory which was bought up by Sachs (F & S, I think) in the mid 80's along with Maillard for the hubs and freewheels. The Sachs Aris freewheel uses the same cogs as the Maillard Corse with an extra pip for the alignment (presumably calculated for the indexing). The F & S cycle division was then bought up by SRAM who tried to build on its reputation without adding much. I think that SRAM have since sold off much of what they bought. Does anyone have any information? There is a good potted history on the SRAM site if I remeber correctly.
    I have a Sachs New Success derailleur which is a very nice piece of machinery. I was given it by a clubmate when he converted to Ergo (or the Shimano equivalent). I also have a Huret Rival (at least I think its a Rival, must go and read the name, its on the tandem) which is non-indexed and not bad. The New Success is a short cage and runs 46-28 triple with a 14-28 freewheel (but I stop at 46/18, no point in abusing the beast).
    Cheers Jo
  • GarethPJGarethPJ Posts: 295
    Always been very happy with my Rival bits.

    What really did for them was the fact that a lot of European manufacturers moved to Shimano in the late eighties some say it was to get indexing on a cheap group. Having said that I once tried SIS shifters with a Huret rear end and found it indexed OK. So I think there was more to it than just the indexing. Presumably they could have just fitted Shimano shifters if it was just the indexing they were after, Shimano could probably supply cheaper in bulk than Sachs.
  • Macondo01Macondo01 Posts: 706
    .
    "Let not the sands of time get in your lunch"

    National Lampoon
  • RamanujanRamanujan Posts: 352
    ND used to make bikes for several shops in the SE, including Geof Butler.
    They simply re-badged them.
  • GypsiesGypsies Posts: 403
    I worked at his cycle shop in st albans in about 83-84..he was pro riding for falcon,the wheel builder there was riding a nd badged bike,but he was'nt building frames to my knowledge then,so probably was a different frame
  • Great paint jobs on Nigel Deans.....

    my first proper road bike was a nigel dean in Reynolds 525 Triathlon (whatever that meant!) bought in 1992. I got the frameset on its own and had it painted up with a graphite > silver fading paint job ala Raleigh Winner.... and whacked a wonderful concoction of 105, dura ace (uniglide not hyperglide) and suntour on it.

    i loved that bike...
  • If anyone is offered a white Nigel Dean, please let me know. It was stolen a couple of days ago

    I'm so happy. My beautiful Nigel Dean was left in a pub carpark when I was walking past on Friday. So I took it back. :D
  • Macondo01Macondo01 Posts: 706
    Well spotted and hurrah!! Was it locked up? :shock:
    .
    "Let not the sands of time get in your lunch"

    National Lampoon
  • Sorry I completely missed your question Ian ... anyway did you get a Nigel Dean? My Suntour front and rear work fine with the shimano sora STI levers ... just needed a little fine tuning. Now the sun is back and Spring is in the air I am hoping to get out a bit again.

    Cheers

    Lewis
  • Macondo01Macondo01 Posts: 706
    If anyone is interested I am planning to sell my Nigel Dean Tourer - it's 54 ctc - will post on classifieds in a few days otherwise pm me if interested. Since this photo I have had put on sks mudguards, a NOS Record Headset, new chain and cassette and Ritchey ergonomic handlebars.


    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3453130185/
    .
    "Let not the sands of time get in your lunch"

    National Lampoon
  • flyfiferflyfifer Posts: 4
    Ive just bought a nigel dean racer 25 inch frame
    it belonged to someone who used to do cycle racing i also got a raleigh road bike but it has been used as a winter training bike and is poor conditon in places
    both bikes need a bit of work done to them to get them roadworthy again
    the brake levers have concealed cables but are missing so will have to fit new outers and inners which should be fun!
    the bike is very light its reynolds 531 throughout the raleigh is reynolds 501 throughout
    anyone know how much a nigel dean complete bike would cost new? the raleigh must be 1980's as it has a plastic headtube badge
    finally anyone tell me where the frame number is located?
    is there a frame number listing for nd bikes ?
  • ynyswen24ynyswen24 Posts: 703
    mz__jo wrote:
    For information the Sachs derailleur was made by the Huret factory which was bought up by Sachs (F & S, I think) in the mid 80's along with Maillard for the hubs and freewheels. The Sachs Aris freewheel uses the same cogs as the Maillard Corse with an extra pip for the alignment (presumably calculated for the indexing). The F & S cycle division was then bought up by SRAM who tried to build on its reputation without adding much. I think that SRAM have since sold off much of what they bought. Does anyone have any information? There is a good potted history on the SRAM site if I remeber correctly.
    I have a Sachs New Success derailleur which is a very nice piece of machinery. I was given it by a clubmate when he converted to Ergo (or the Shimano equivalent). I also have a Huret Rival (at least I think its a Rival, must go and read the name, its on the tandem) which is non-indexed and not bad. The New Success is a short cage and runs 46-28 triple with a 14-28 freewheel (but I stop at 46/18, no point in abusing the beast).
    Cheers Jo

    Sachs New Success was made under licence from Campagnolo, as far as I know it is compatible with Shimano cog spacing but I may be wrong on that score. SRAM bought Sachs-Sedis in the late '90s in order to access their chain manufacturing experience and also to find a way into hub gear technology and (possibly) knock the Torpedo twist grip shifters out of the market just as they were starting to develop their own ESP (now X series) Mtn bike shifters.
  • ynyswen24ynyswen24 Posts: 703
    ynyswen24 wrote:
    mz__jo wrote:
    For information the Sachs derailleur was made by the Huret factory which was bought up by Sachs (F & S, I think) in the mid 80's along with Maillard for the hubs and freewheels. The Sachs Aris freewheel uses the same cogs as the Maillard Corse with an extra pip for the alignment (presumably calculated for the indexing). The F & S cycle division was then bought up by SRAM who tried to build on its reputation without adding much. I think that SRAM have since sold off much of what they bought. Does anyone have any information? There is a good potted history on the SRAM site if I remeber correctly.
    I have a Sachs New Success derailleur which is a very nice piece of machinery. I was given it by a clubmate when he converted to Ergo (or the Shimano equivalent). I also have a Huret Rival (at least I think its a Rival, must go and read the name, its on the tandem) which is non-indexed and not bad. The New Success is a short cage and runs 46-28 triple with a 14-28 freewheel (but I stop at 46/18, no point in abusing the beast).
    Cheers Jo

    Sachs New Success was made under licence from Campagnolo, as far as I know it is compatible with Shimano cog spacing but I may be wrong on that score. SRAM bought Sachs-Sedis in the late '90s in order to access their chain manufacturing experience and also to find a way into hub gear technology with the Sachs Torpedo and (possibly) knock the Sachs twist grip shifters out of the market just as they were starting to develop their own ESP (now X series) Mtn bike shifters.
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