2003 TDF Stage 8 YouTube Video - Any Clues To How Fast ?

FullFrameRob

Just been watching the following YouTube video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-y38WZAtgc

So between seconds 10 & 30 any guesses on how fast would Beltran & Chechu be going up what look likes the start of Alpe d'Huez

Then between 2.40 & 3.00 what about LA's speed ?

andyp

What a terrible video - just about every rider in it was a convicted doper. What a rotten state this sport has gotten itself into.

pat1cp

andyp wrote:

What a terrible video - just about every rider in it was a convicted doper. What a rotten state this sport has gotten itself into.

I empathise with what you are saying Andy, but you still have to admire the guys, doped or not they are still fine atheletes.

Was that the year Tyler broke his collarbone in the first week ??? He managed to get to Paris !!! (I Think). Upon returning home he had to get all his fillings replaced !!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

DaveyL

I think the Tyler tooth-capping thing was when he broke his collarbone near the start of the Giro (maybe 2002 edition) and still finished 2nd.

In the 2003 TdF he also broke his collarbone, and finished 4th. He had an incredible stage win with a massive solo break later in the race. It's telling when you watch Hoellentour and see Zabel commenting on it - he says he's never seen anything like it, or words to that effect, but the implication is, in retrospect, quite clear.

To return to the original question, I think when Lance won the ITT up there in 2004, his average speed was about 12-13 mph. I guess a big attack on that 11-12% section could well be at 16-18 mph? I've ridden up there a couple of times. I hate the state our sport has got into in the last couple of decades, but hell, I could take all the drugs in the world and I'd still never manage to hold that speed for even a few metres. I suppose there has to be some kind of grudging respect there.

secretsqirrel

pat1cp wrote:

andyp wrote:

What a terrible video - just about every rider in it was a convicted doper. What a rotten state this sport has gotten itself into.

I empathise with what you are saying Andy, but you still have to admire the guys, doped or not they are still fine atheletes

With the passing of time, when the peloton is 200 strong with angelic Linus Gerdemans and saintly Bradley Wigginses, we will look back on the those days of juiced-up, tattooed gods blasting up Alpe d'Huez, with more than a twinge of nostalgia.
It will be like comparing Boy Bands with the Stones and the Beatles (and don't telll me they didn't take performance enhancing drugs!).

At least if they were all convicted dopers, it was a level playing field and we were witnessing some serious competitiveness.

mozwyn69

I was watching the time trail up the Alpe this morning whilst on the turbo. Apparently Armstrong averaged 15 mph .. Just try hitting 15 mph and holding it on any part of the Alpe (apart from the flat at the top).

redddraggon

mozwyn69 wrote:

I was watching the time trail up the Alpe this morning whilst on the turbo. Apparently Armstrong averaged 15 mph .. Just try hitting 15 mph and holding it on any part of the Alpe (apart from the flat at the top).

Yeh it was just under 15mph, still bloody fast!

DaveyL

Armostrong's average speed that day was about 14.6 mph, but that included a mile of flat at the start through Bourg d'Oisans. His average speed for the climb was about 13.7 mph. Still PDQ....

You can work those numbers out from here:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/to ... ts/stage16

nick hanson

DaveyL wrote:

To return to the original question, I think when Lance won the ITT up there in 2004, his average speed was about 12-13 mph. I guess a big attack on that 11-12% section could well be at 16-18 mph? I've ridden up there a couple of times. I hate the state our sport has got into in the last couple of decades, but hell, I could take all the drugs in the world and I'd still never manage to hold that speed for even a few metres. I suppose there has to be some kind of grudging respect there.

As the old saying goes,drugs won't turn a donkey into a race horse.
If All pro's rode totally clean,then the average speed would probably drop off 2mph
(was it Christophe Bassons who said that he was constantly forced to ride slightly into the red,& placed a great strain on his health?) which would still be mighty impressive to watch.
What gives the great impression of speed is the cadence that Indurain ,then LA used to effect on the climbs,compared to when you look at videos of Anquetil etc,rolling their gears around (now there was a man who knew his drugs :shock: )

nwallace

andyp wrote:

What a terrible video - just about every rider in it was a convicted doper. What a rotten state this sport has gotten itself into.

It is easy to say that, but until doping was banned in sport you could use what ever you wanted. And it is only now as the testers get on top of the drugs that we are seeing the big hoo haa about what everyone is taking. I doubt there are any sports where doping hasn't taking place.

Motorsport Magazine ran a50th aniversary of Moss and Jenkinsons win in the Migli Millia, largely reprinting bits of Jenkinsons articles. I'm not sure where the magazine is otherwise I would have quoted directly.

Before the 1955 Migli Millia Stirling Moss' co-driver visited a London pharmacy. Jenkinson asked about tablets that would keep him awake, the pharmacist brought 2 packs of pills to the counter. The first one he said "will give you diarrhoea", nah thats no good, "and this one will make you constipated", "Perfect!" You would assume that the driver would taking stuff as well.

Do Chessmasters drink coffee?

DaveyL

I don't know about chess players taking stimulants, but there have been a lot of allegations of cheating by use of computers, and having moves relayed to the player when he visits the bathroom, or by someone in the audience making signals (both challengers for the world title last year, Kramnik and Topalov) fell foul of these repsective, unfounded, allegations.

Then you go back to the good old days with Karpov and Korchnoi, and you have parapsychologists in the front row trying to freak out the other player, colour-coded yoghurts to suggest moves, kicking each other under the table, letter bombs and all sorts of other shenanigans that makes pro cycling look pretty civilised!

iainf72

DaveyL wrote:

I don't know about chess players taking stimulants, but there have been a lot of allegations of cheating by use of computers, and having moves relayed to the player when he visits the bathroom, or by someone in the audience making signals (both challengers for the world title last year, Kramnik and Topalov) fell foul of these repsective, unfounded, allegations.

I remember a few years ago there was huge debate in the chess world about whether drug testing was neccessary. As with all thing, if someone came up with an experimental drug that enhanced mental capacity I'd expect grandmasters would be very tempted to take it.

DaveyL

nick hanson wrote:

As the old saying goes,drugs won't turn a donkey into a race horse.
If All pro's rode totally clean,then the average speed would probably drop off 2mph
(was it Christophe Bassons who said that he was constantly forced to ride slightly into the red,& placed a great strain on his health?) which would still be mighty impressive to watch.
What gives the great impression of speed is the cadence that Indurain ,then LA used to effect on the climbs,compared to when you look at videos of Anquetil etc,rolling their gears around (now there was a man who knew his drugs :shock: )

Why thank you

That's the problem with the blood-boosting doping techniques, though - they do turn relative donkeys into racehorses. Jacking up your hematocrit by several points, with concomitant increase in VO2max, means that also-rans really could become challengers. Witness Gutierrez the bull outclimbing several cheeky little chappies (copyright Duffers) in the Giro a couple of years ago. And those with a naturally high hematocrit would be disadvantaged, so it wasn't really a level playing field. The only level playing field is when no-one is doping.

Captain Fagor

Whatever they've been up to, it certainly makes for good viewing!

deejay

pat1cp wrote:

andyp wrote:

What a terrible video - just about every rider in it was a convicted doper. What a rotten state this sport has gotten itself into.

I empathise with what you are saying Andy, but you still have to admire the guys, doped or not they are still fine atheletes.
:

I agree with Captain Fagor and pat1
It allways seemed odd to me they are all sweating their bollox off and hurting with the pain of climbing which can be seen on their faces and their body language.
That one man can do a Bjarne Riis and take off without much emotion or effort showing.

During last Autum I have been in several "sports bars" and heard the same thing that on the mention of LA they say that........ "If the riders are all on drugs then how can one man not on drugs be so good"

deejay

[quote="deejay"
During last Autumn I have been in several "sports bars" and heard the same thing that on the mention of LA they say that........ "If the riders are all on drugs then how can one man not on drugs be so good"[/quote]

Sorry that should have read......."US sports bars".......and I laughed and played it down at first and then agreed they had a point of view..