Simon Doughty's Assailant Jailed

Gavin Gilbert

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... ive_horror

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 174653.ece


Simon is my friend. At the time of his assault he was also my clubmate, my mentor and my cycling coach. Until this moment, I haven’t felt any anger about the incident. All have I wanted and hoped for is for my friend to recover from his injuries.

I think this is the appropriate moment for the anger to start. Not with the pitiful, stupid and cowardly moron who wrote off a life that was spent helping other people, but with the Policy Makers and enforcers of the law that allow such acts to go de-facto unpunished.

Of course we all knew from the very start that this would be final outcome; Simon’s injuries and the impact they had on him and his family to be treated as incidental to a handful of ‘technical motoring offences’. But it hasn’t stopped the sickening feeling of injustice.

eternal_headwind

Again we have a life destroyed on the roads. What will happen now? On our part I rather think that this thread will degenerate into a fruitless argument about the legal and dictionary definitions of 'dangerous' and 'careless'
I hope we do not dishonour all those who have suffered by allowing this to happen.

I have optimism though, that the people here will resolve to change things for the better. We need informed debate, but at the end of it there must be some form of action.

Your anger is justified, and I think the time for something to be done is long overdue.

What can we do? Let us use this thread to set a realistic target, a course of action we can follow.

I pledge my support

pliptrot

Wise words to wish I can only add great sorrow at was has happened. There was some debate a while back that the law needed changing so that justice was meted out according to the consequences of the crime, rather than in accordance with any isolated definitions. This was the start - or so we thought - of a recognition that to get behind the wheel of a motor car confers very great responsibility, and to neglect this is very serious and should be dealt with accordingly.

I believe that representations by as many as possible to our MPs in this vein may get this debate going again.

This sort of sickening thing must stop. At the risk of being indelicate, the facts of this story indicate that to be involved in a crash (let's stop the use of the word "accident") when drunk driving presents the opportunity to mitigate the likely outcome by leaving the scene of the crime until sober. Such behaviour alone must attract severe penalties.

All our sympathies to Simon and his family.

10 people will die on the roads of Britain today. We accept this as the normal concomitants of everyday life. How can this be so?

cougie

Scandalous.

rampax

It seems like allmost every day I read about some sensless killing or maiming of a cyclist by a motorist.
I dont know if its that this sort of thing is on the increase, or that it is getting more publicity when it happens.
9 months ago I sold my car and vowed never to get another, but I find reading all these articles VERY scary.
In this time I have had several incedents with terrible drivers, and road rage.
I am a seasoned confident rider, but when a lot of the time there is really nothing you can do if somebody in a motor vehicle decides they want to scare you, or injure you for a laugh, or to make a point.
I am considering changing back to my previous form of transport.

eternal_headwind

Following an incident a few years ago (2004ish) I came under a lot of pressure from my family to restrict commuting by cycle. I understand your concerns rampax. Would that be a gateway decision though to an even worse road environment?
Is it that the popularity of the 4x4 is motivated by the desire for an increased level of armour plating over and above that offered by a normal car? Is is that 4x4 drivers have such a low level of confidence in handling a normal car that they feel they have to enforce their place on the road by sheer mass of their vehicle?

A while ago I was walking through the centre of Cardiff (I live in South Wales) and cut through from St Mary Street to Westgate street. This is a valid pedestrian route with pavements and so forth, but it did mean I had to walk on the pavement alongside the entrance to Westgate Street car park. This is a 1960/70's concrete monstrosity and the turnings are rather tight to get into it.
Whilst I walked past the entrance (which had an enormous queue) there was a pick up truck pulling a hummer out backwards out of the tight entrance.

The vehicle was enormous, and only a real idiot would try and get one through the entrance. The real idiot in question was soon out on the road with their gigantic car. How long, I wondered, will it be until someone else gets seriously hurt by this person?

And this is the future I would like to avoid. A future in which road safety is defined only by the accident protection a vehicle affords to it's driver, and a future in which the only law that applies in our courts is 'survival of the fittest'

Rampax, I really hope that you will have many happy and healthy years in the saddle

Tourist Tony

I joined this forum years ago in anger at a comment about drink drivers leaving the scene to prevent their drunkenness being detected. All "departing" culprits should be treated as if they were drunk, as well as the penalties for leaving the scene, so that there is no advantage in hiding until sober.
Deepest sympathies to all.

spen666

Tourist Tony wrote:

I joined this forum years ago in anger at a comment about drink drivers leaving the scene to prevent their drunkenness being detected. All "departing" culprits should be treated as if they were drunk, as well as the penalties for leaving the scene, so that there is no advantage in hiding until sober.
Deepest sympathies to all.

I recall those comments Mr T. It was I who made that post.

The penalties for leaving the scene of an accident ( ie Fail to Stop or Fail to Report) should be increased to at least the same as the maximum penalty for causing death by dangerous driving whilst under the influence of drink or drugs and there should be a presumption ( Obviously a rebuttable one) that a person leaving the scene is under the influence of drink or drugs and sentenced accordingly

on the road

Only 18 months :roll:

eternal_headwind

Spen666, you have mave a valid point. The specifics may need discussion, but the need to increase penalties for those fleeing an accident is there.

What do we do now?

A valid objective has been set. If I were to drink drive then I would fully expect to lose my driving license if caught. Our objective then (does everyone agree?) is to campaign for the law to be changed and implemented so that a person fleeing the scene of an accident would receive a substantial driving ban.

The usual ideas for this are:

1. The ePetition (easy but maybe not that effective)
2. Target MP's with letters.
3. Identify one MP with a favourable opinion of sustainable transport and see if they can fight our corner
4. Write to the association of Chief Police Officers, asking for them to back the motion

And, so course

5. Organise ourselves, so that we can speak with one voice to these bodies. A simple (I'm still an optimist) umbrella organisation.

Your feelings?

gandalfcp

Disgusting. Why did the newspaper reports feel the need to include "He was wearing a safety helmet and high-visibility clothes at the time"?

spen666

Eternal_headwind wrote:

Spen666, you have mave a valid point. The specifics may need discussion, but the need to increase penalties for those fleeing an accident is there.

What do we do now?

A valid objective has been set. If I were to drink drive then I would fully expect to lose my driving license if caught. Our objective then (does everyone agree?) is to campaign for the law to be changed and implemented so that a person fleeing the scene of an accident would receive a substantial driving ban.

The usual ideas for this are:

1. The ePetition (easy but maybe not that effective)
2. Target MP's with letters.
3. Identify one MP with a favourable opinion of sustainable transport and see if they can fight our corner
4. Write to the association of Chief Police Officers, asking for them to back the motion

And, so course

5. Organise ourselves, so that we can speak with one voice to these bodies. A simple (I'm still an optimist) umbrella organisation.

Your feelings?

no- not a substantial driving ban, but a sentence of imprisonment commensurate with that for dangerous driving/ causing death by dangerous driving

Gavin Gilbert

Eternal_headwind wrote:

5. Organise ourselves, so that we can speak with one voice to these bodies. A simple (I'm still an optimist) umbrella organisation.

That organisation already exists: http://www.roadpeace.org/index.shtml

eternal_headwind

Roadpeace is another excellent organisation, as are the CTC, British Cycling, Keep death of the roads, Sustrans.....

The we have locally run concerns such as the warrington cycle campaign and BUG (my employers Bicycle Users Group).

All of these people are hard working, focused and care passionately about road safety.

The reason I make this call is based on my increasing dismay with the phrase ' ...in consultation with cycling groups...' used in the media. This normally applies to some idiotic development scheme or government proposal.

It all started when an ITV report into government waste highlighted the case of a useless cycle lane in the north of england. The statement from the council was 'this was developed in consultation with various cycling groups'

If we challenged this, it would take forever to prove that no cycling group was involved. So who does the government recognise?

giant_man

But when is the Government going to realise that killing a cyclist with a motor vehicle should be classed as murder, particularly in the case of road rage, pre-meditated or not. The vehicle is their weapon.

spen666

giant mancp wrote:

But when is the Government going to realise that killing a cyclist with a motor vehicle should be classed as murder, particularly in the case of road rage, pre-meditated or not. The vehicle is their weapon.

So you want the definition of murder to be a special one for when cyclists are killed as opposed to anyone else?

Grow up

allen

Drink driving should be classed as attempted murder. We are too lenient in this country. A life time ban and a serious custodial is the only deterrent. Oh and a zero tolerance policy none of this 1/2 pints rubbish. Sound s harsh but if you really want the roads to be safer than its time to be harsh

Tourist Tony

giant mancp wrote:

But when is the Government going to realise that killing a cyclist with a motor vehicle should be classed as murder, particularly in the case of road rage, pre-meditated or not. The vehicle is their weapon.

I suggest you look up a definition of "murder".

spen666

allen wrote:

Drink driving should be classed as attempted murder. We are too lenient in this country. A life time ban and a serious custodial is the only deterrent. Oh and a zero tolerance policy none of this 1/2 pints rubbish. Sound s harsh but if you really want the roads to be safer than its time to be harsh

Zero alcohol limit - hmmm someone clearly is ignorant of alcohol and the body. alcohol occurs in small quantities naturally in the body. You can havwea reading of >0 without ever having drunk beer, wine or spirits.

allen

I think you know my point ; ) In my younger days I thought I knew best etc and then was involved in a nasty accident caused by .....you guessed it drunk driver hence my zero tolerance view. Works elsewhere .