Preview Stage 16 2008 Tour de France - Bonette and Lombarde

chill888

Never too soon to start talking about the Tour de France.

2008 Tour de France Preview Stage 16

This might be the best mountain stage in the 2008 Tour - includes two huge climbs that aren't usually in the Tour (so maybe more interesting than the fantastic but usual Galibier - Alpe d'Huez stuff)

jimmythecuckoo

chill888 wrote:

Never too soon to start talking about the Tour de France.

good point well made!!!

andy_wrx

I climbed Bonette last year, from the Barcelonette side though, not from St Etienne de Tinee.
Bl**dy long way up, practically no flat all the way, then the last little loop to Cime de Bonette is stee-eep !
They were resurfacing the route down to St Etienne (now we know why !) so lots of lovely smooth black new tarmac and big swoopy hairpins, just had to watch-out for the odd lorryload of tarmac or roadroller.

BTW : the signs every 1k say that it's the highest road in Europe. It was, then they built the road at Iseran. So to reclaim it they built the Cime de Bonette loop, which goes nowhere but just a little loop higher up the peak so it could be highest again. But since then, they've opened a road in the Sierra Nevada in Spain which is well-over 3000m.

GeorgeShaw

Is that the road past Mulhacen down to Capileira that used to be a dirt track?

chill888

It was, then they built the road at Iseran. So to reclaim it they built the Cime de Bonette loop, which goes nowhere but just a little loop higher up the peak so it could be highest again.

Here's a photo where you can clearly see the Cime de Bonnette - the extra bit of road just goes up and around. (that's my wife's rear view mirror - I was lucky enough to have car support here)



Do you have more info on this Spanish road? Is it paved /suitable for road bike? (thanks)

I understand two Austrian paved roads are "slightly" higher than Bonette:

Söldener Gletscherstraße at 2,803 metres and the nearby Ötztaler GletscherstraBe at 2,823 metres in a tunnel.

deejay

I went over the Col De Restefond (as it was called when 1st opened) from Jausiers in 1963 and most of it was dirt road. It was claimed at the time to be the highest "Pass" in europe and the memories of that little ledge of a road around your so called loop was in fact the top of the mountain. The views were fantastic but the dirt road made it a bit frightening.

I drove over it in the 80's and found they had cut a detour through the mountain causing a shorter route but I still had to see the loop and found 8/10 cars parked there with no-one in sight. Therefore it must have been widened and with parked cars and no fear with passing with my car. The road still gravel.

The TDF in 94!! and I was on a coach trip and some one said they had cycled over it two weeks earlier and to my response about gravel they said it was being tarmac-ed for the Tour. I walked between 10-11 kms up and because I could hear the crowds further up stopped with a good vantage view of several hairpins below. Then saw Robert Miller with Delgado hanging on come up and past me.

This mountain is still (to the best of my knowledge) the highest Pass in europe and I did say pass as the road continues on to Nice.

The other TDF climbs in the pyrenees etc are higher to a ski station and therefore are cul de sac's and you have to return down the same way.

chill888

deejay sounds like great memories! Often deserted gravel/dirt paths up high are a lot more fun than the modern busier paved roads littered with motor cycles in the summer.

The "PASS" part is "only" at 2715 so things passes like Col de l'iseran (2770m) would be higher.

andy_wrx

Looks like I've started something with this 'it's no longer really the highest road in Europe, even though the signs still say it is' !

I'm really only repeating what our guide said on our trip last year, that it had been the highest, but the Iseran had then beaten it, so the local authorities had extended it by adding the Cime loop, but then a road in the Sierra Nevada had been built over 3000m, which the Bonette authorities can't respond to because the very top of their mountain isn't high enough.

As 'chill888' says above, the 'pass'/'col' is 2715, so if the Col d'Iseran is 2770 that's the higher 'col'

The Cime loop is what gets it above 2800, but it goes up from the col, round the mountain and back to the col again - it's as much a 'road to nowhere' as any dead-end road up to a mountain-top ski-station.

I'm amused at the Bonette local authorities (Mercantour regional government ?) going to the expense of this 'space-race'-style road-building.
Can't imagine it happening in the UK, the Cumbrian highways authorities vs North Wales vs Scottish Highlands !

A Google for 'highest road europe sierra nevada' returned lots of stuff for me :-

http://www.fiestasiesta.co.uk/region_gu ... evada.html

The road which passes close to the summit <of Mulhacen> at Veleta is the highest road in Europe.

- don't know how high this makes the road, but the top of Mulhacen is 3481m ?

http://www.andalucia.com/environment/pr ... nevada.htm

the A395 - Europe's highest road - from Granada city that leads to the ski station

http://www.almunecar.com/Visitors_Guide ... evada.html

The road continues past the resort <ski resort of Solynieve> as far as the peak of Veleta, justifiably earning its title as the highest road in Europe. Naturally this is only accessible in summer.

And here's an account from some guy of cycling up it and overnighting...
http://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/stevegill.htm

andy_wrx

In 'chill888''s photo above, you can see the col and the road going up round the Cime loop.

It's taken from the Jausiers direction, not St. Etienne-de-Tinée, i.e. the way I went up not the way the Tour will go.

If you look at the wall of rubble (looks like a slagheap !) on the left, there's a gap in it, about the middle of the photo where there's a white blob.
This is the Col de Bonette, you cut through here and the road goes down to St Etienne-d-T, and this is 2715m.

If instead you continue on the road to the right, as you can see it climbs further (and steeper !), goes round the back of the 'pyramid' at 2802m and you can see it coming back down again on the other side, back to the col. Round the back of the 'pyramid', it perhaps goes as high again as where you can see it going up the two sides.

The Col de Restefond is the old road, still there as a dirt track to the left of where 'chill888's photo was taken, and lower-down off to the right out of shot is the Col de la Moutière which is very much a dirt track.
This map shows it all pretty clearly :- http://www.centcols.org/libre_service/b ... arte_1.jpg

And there's some more pictures here, including a good one of the Col de Bonette 'cut-though' and some of the hairpins the Tour will climb up on the St. Etienne-de-Tinée side
http://www.grenoblecycling.com/Barcelonnette-Cols.htm

chill888

Good post Andy




It would maybe be a good topic to talk about all the false cycling sign claims. Like the sign above. A couple of other smaller lies come to mind for me. Col de la Madeleine proudly declares 2,000 metres but it's only 1,993. And Col de joux Plane says 1,700 metres which I believe is about 10 more than reality.

One thing we can all probably agree on is that Bonette is a fantastic climb. I am toying with trying the Moutiers track when I will be there this summer.

ut_och_cykla

chill888 wrote:

Never too soon to start talking about the Tour de France.

2008 Tour de France Preview Stage 16

This might be the best mountain stage in the 2008 Tour - includes two huge climbs that aren't usually in the Tour (so maybe more interesting than the fantastic but usual Galibier - Alpe d'Huez stuff)

Checked your site - nice! good You tube videos too!

deejay

andy_wrx wrote:

Looks like I've started something with this 'it's no longer really the highest road in Europe, even though the signs still say it is' !

I'm really only repeating what our guide said on our trip last year, that it had been the highest, but the Iseran had then beaten it, so the local authorities had extended it by adding the Cime loop, but then a road in the Sierra Nevada had been built over 3000m, which the Bonette authorities can't respond to because the very top of their mountain isn't high enough.

I'm amused at the Bonette local authorities (Mercantour regional government ?) going to the expense of this 'space-race'-style road-building.

---

I really don't care what is the highest pass these days.

When the Restefond was built and opened to a lot of publicity as the Highest Pass and then the TDF went over it.
But will you get it in (I must not say it) your heads that when I rode it in 63 it was the Highest Pass in Europe and the top bit around the point was Narrow and Dangerous.

To make it safer they cut through the mountain so the "Turn" was wider.and less dangerous.

I have just looked at my 1984 AA European handbook that states Restefond (Bonette) 9193 feet (Iseran 9088 feet) and so they still had not done the "Cut Through".......Got it "A Cut Through"

knedlicky

deejay wrote:

I drove over it in the 80's ... The road still gravel.

The TDF in 94!! and I was on a coach trip and some one said ...it was being tarmac-ed for the Tour.

It was tarmac-ed before 1994 - certainly by 1984 when I rode it.

deejay

knedlicky wrote:

deejay wrote:

I drove over it in the 80's ... The road still gravel.

The TDF in 94!! and I was on a coach trip and some one said ...it was being tarmac-ed for the Tour.

It was tarmac-ed before 1994 - certainly by 1984 when I rode it.

OK... I would not argue with that statement of an eye witness as I rode as stated and only returned by coach in 1994 for the TDF.
Then on that coach,, someone told me they had ridden over it 2 weeks previously and saw that they were laying Tarmac for the forthcoming visit of TDF. She also said that her group had ridden over long stretches of Gravel/dirt.

Therefor the knowledge I had up to last week has now been updated and many thanks.

The mountain was for many years mine (so to speak) as nobody knew of it (at least those I spoke to) and I get a bit touchy about those "Idiotic" remarks made in earlier posts.

In those days it was your 2 week vacation (that's all we got then) and a lot of planning for the "Adventure" to the Alps and now (I should know) it takes only 8/10 hours to get there and I presume that in 84 it was still a bit of an adventure.!!! Thanks Again.

deejay

I have seen the mistake and in the 80's it was another mountain ..sorry

knedlicky

deejay wrote:

knedlicky wrote:

deejay wrote:

I presume that in 84 it was still a bit of an adventure.!!! Thanks Again.

It was an adventure. It was my goal and in the week previously, as preparation, I rode the Madeleine from both sides, a circuit covering the Glandon and Croix de Fer, the Chaussy (top still gravel in the 80s), Telegraphe, Galibier, Izouard, and Vars. After all them, the Restefond/Bonette was a piece of cake.

In 1994 they were probably resurfacing the road, it probably gets a lot of frost damage.
In 1984 they'd just resurfaced the Vars for the passage of the Tour that year.