Changing from dops to straights on Audax bike??

ForumNewbie

Hi there,

I have had a Dawes Audax for just over a year now, and I am still finding drops bars uncomfortable on any longish rides.

I did 40 miles today - my longest ride for a while - and for the last 10 to 15 miles my shoulders were hurting so much so that it spoiled the ride for me. I came to the conclusion during these painful miles that I really need to get back to straight bars.

I like the Dawes Audax bike itself and I was wondering how viable it is to convert it to a straight bar bike, in view of the fact that the drops have STI brake levers and gear shifters. Presumably all the current cabling and actual gears and brakes would remain and be connected to new brake and gear levers for straight handlebars??

I don't think I would see a significant drop in average speed as I spend most of my time on the hoods anyway. However comfort is more important than speed for me.

I am not that technically-minded so if it is possible I will be asking my LBS to do it for me. However firstly I would be interested to know if it is a particularly big job and how much it is likely to cost for components and labour.

whyamihere

Pretty easy to do. MTB shifters (assuming you're on Shimano, all the Shimano MTB shifters will work fine), Nexave levers (V-brake levers won't work) and flat bars. You can probably pay for most of it by selling the old kit. Cables should be fine, flat bars can have shorter cable runs than drops.

If you know how to index gears and set up brakes, it shouldn't cause you any problems.

tatanab

I spend most of my time on the hoods or on the tops of the bars, probably only 1% on the drops. If your shoulders hurt than maybe the bars are too low, try raising them.

To change to straight bars you need - bars, grips, bar ends perhaps, brake levers, gear levers, and maybe a longer stem because you probably want the bars further away than the tops of your drops and you might need one anyway because MTB bars are a different diameter. Cost - I don't know, it depends on the standard of kit you decide on I suppose, plus say 2 hours shop time.

If you proceed I recommend that you chop an inch off either side of the bars. I put straights on a hack bike some years ago and found that I had far to much leverage on the steering with full width bars. This is not needed with narrow tyres and on road surfaces.

Try raising your bars before anything else.

ForumNewbie

whyamihere wrote:

Pretty easy to do. MTB shifters (assuming you're on Shimano, all the Shimano MTB shifters will work fine), Nexave levers (V-brake levers won't work) and flat bars. You can probably pay for most of it by selling the old kit. Cables should be fine, flat bars can have shorter cable runs than drops.

If you know how to index gears and set up brakes, it shouldn't cause you any problems.

Thanks - that sound good. Rather than sell the old kit myself I was hoping that my LBS would accept it as a part trade-in to reduce the cost. It is a good shop who specilaise in touring bikes. Is it reasonable to ask for a trade-in of 'my not so old' parts?

I'll get the LBS to set up the gears and brakes.

Any idea how much this will all cost on the basis I am asking the bike shop to do all the work?

whyamihere

Assuming that you go for Deore (good, dependable kit, not too expensive), the shifters will be around £25-£30, around £20-£25 for the levers, and around £20 for the bar. Most LBSs will do free/cheap labour if you buy the parts from them, so probably £0-£5. so, I'd estimate that you're looking at around £65-£80. If you do need a new stem, add around £20 onto that.

Edit: Not sure about the trade-in, that would depend on the shop. No harm in asking.

chunkytfg

Of you spend the majority of your time on the tops then why do you think straight bars will benefit you? your hands will be in the same place as before just maybe a couple of cm further out?

When i had similar problems to you with my bike my LBS swapped it for a shorter one and flipped it over to jack up the bars and now i'm comfortable on all 3 positions on the bars.

andrew_s

Note that MTB front shifters don't work on road front mechs, so you will need to get either the flat-bar specific road shifters that Shimano do, or an MTB front mech as well.

ForumNewbie

whyamihere wrote:

Assuming that you go for Deore (good, dependable kit, not too expensive), the shifters will be around £25-£30, around £20-£25 for the levers, and around £20 for the bar. Most LBSs will do free/cheap labour if you buy the parts from them, so probably £0-£5. so, I'd estimate that you're looking at around £65-£80. If you do need a new stem, add around £20 onto that.

Edit: Not sure about the trade-in, that would depend on the shop. No harm in asking.

Thanks - that sounds not too bad.

Thanks for other replies as well. I still think with straight bars that raise slightly up on each side my hands will be higher and closer to me rather than when on the hoods. The bars are at the top position so I cannot move them any higher. A few months after I got the bike, I moved the saddle and fitted a shorter stem - but its still too much of a stretch.

However in view of some of your replies I am concerned that it may affect the geometry and steering and that sort of stuff. I have just looked at the Dawes cheaper flat bar tourers and I see that they have V brakes so maybe I would need to changes all the brake set-up rather than just the shifters??

If there is any danger that changing the bars will make the bike worse to ride and/or worthless as regards resale value, I would rather sell the Audax and buy a flat bar bike instead. What do you think?

geoff_ss

I've done exactly that on my 12 year old hand-built 'Derek Wilkins' 653 frame and for a similar reason. My bike was originally Campag 8 speed Mirage equipped. Can't remember how much it cost but I did all the work myself. The only drawback was that I lost any indexing as I retained the Campag rear mech and cassette, and had a job finding decent thumbshifters with a friction option. A surprising advantage was the improvement in braking power with ATB levers as opposed to the Ergopower ones.

It all works perfectly. I don't miss the indexing as adjusting the levers is so easy with both hands on the bars all the time.

Geoff

ForumNewbie

Geoff_SS wrote:

I've done exactly that on my 12 year old hand-built 'Derek Wilkins' 653 frame and for a similar reason. My bike was originally Campag 8 speed Mirage equipped. Can't remember how much it cost but I did all the work myself. The only drawback was that I lost any indexing as I retained the Campag rear mech and cassette, and had a job finding decent thumbshifters with a friction option. A surprising advantage was the improvement in braking power with ATB levers as opposed to the Ergopower ones.

It all works perfectly. I don't miss the indexing as adjusting the levers is so easy with both hands on the bars all the time.

Geoff

Thanks Geoff,

That's reassuring. Sorry but as I'm not very technically-minded can you tell what indexing means in relation to gears.

ForumNewbie

chunkytfg wrote:

Of you spend the majority of your time on the tops then why do you think straight bars will benefit you? your hands will be in the same place as before just maybe a couple of cm further out?

When i had similar problems to you with my bike my LBS swapped it for a shorter one and flipped it over to jack up the bars and now i'm comfortable on all 3 positions on the bars.

I had a close look at my bike tonight and compared measurements with my old hybrid which has straight bars. I think the problem is not so much the distance to the bars, but the fact that the saddle on my Audax is higher than the drop bar hoods. Unfortunately I can't raise the bars any higher - the stem is at the top of the fork and is pointing slightly upwards.

It's not that much higher but I think to be comfortable for me the saddle would need to be level with the drop hoods or straight bars. I am therefore not sure whether straight bars is the solution after all. I will try lowering the saddle a couple of inches although I think that will make the distance too short from saddle to pedals.

Even although the LBS thought the bike was the right fit for me, maybe I should have been sold a bike with a bigger frame so that the saddle could have been set at the same height as the hoods.

MartinJ

You could try one of these is you just want to raise the height of the handlebars.

http://www.awcycles.co.uk/category/Bicycle_Parts/MTB_Handlebar_Stems_174/Alloy_Stem_Raiser/12272/index.aspx

Just Google for aheadset raiser and you will get various stockists.

alfablue

The stem raiser is a good idea, or alternatively what about new forks with an uncut steerer, you will then have probably 10cm or more potential bar height increase, you can use spacers and adjust until you find the best position then cut the steerer (if necessary / if you wish). Forks would cost maybe around £50.

If you have a look at Thorn bikes you will see that they often have a lot of spacers and short upright stems to raise the bars up, so its been done before!

Raph

Sorry to be a totally boring old fart but I think if you're not tehcnically minded then I'd advise looking for a bike you're comfortable on and selling yours. I've done this sort of conversion a few times, and it's always a pain dans le posterior. There are always unexpected little niggles - the LBS comes up against these same niggles and you'll end up taking it back to them a few times and might well still end up with something not quite up to it. If there are flat bar levers that pull exactly the same amount of cable then at least the brakes will feel similar, but the whole point about unforseen niggles is that they're unforseen - so I can't tell you what they might be.

Generally frames are designed with the geometry of the final complete bike in mind - Hybrids and MTBs are certain frame dimensions and road frames are different. It's rare, though not impossible, for a road frame to work with flat bars but it usually feels a bit weird, the steering isn't as confident etc.

In the unlikely event that you take my uninspiring advice, before you do, try flipping the stem as mentioned above - and/or try it as high as it will go, e.g. if there are spacers above it, put them underneath instead. Also try a shorter stem (unless the existing one is already very short) - though bear in mind how close your knees get to the bars when you're out of the saddle up hills - if it's already very close then a shorter stem might result in knees hitting the bars. My tourer was a bit uncomfortable, though I've always ridden mostly road bikes so should be used to it, all the angles/dimensions were pretty much the same as my other road bikes which are totally comfortable for whole days in the saddle... I turned the stem round in the middle of a 120mile ride to Wales and the rest of the ride was bliss, and it's been lovely ever since. The position of the bars is only an inch at the most from where it was but it feels totally different to ride. Si it's worth experimenting a bit. Putting the saddle further forward so you're not reaching so far might also change the feel of the bars and its effect on your shoulders and back. Angling the bars up a bit helps, and/or positioning the levers higher - though of course too far up makes braking harder on the drops so there's a limit to how high they can go.

Spending the odd few quid here and there to try and get the best out of what you've got is ok - you might find it's perfect with the right stem, but don't spend much before giving up on it - spending the whole wedge to convert the bike to flat bars and then discovering that it's still not right would be pretty bad. I suppose it's a matter of doing a few sums to see whether selling it and buying another bike is a sensible option financially, and also consider that a ready-made hybrid or other flat-bar bike is much more likely to ride well than a converted road bike, unless you're very lucky.

Just my ha'pennyworth.

geoff_ss

ForumNewbie wrote:

Thanks Geoff,

That's reassuring. Sorry but as I'm not very technically-minded can you tell what indexing means in relation to gears.

In the 'olden days' gears were controlled simply by adjusting levers which didn't have a set position. Indexing takes the uncertainty (and skill) out of gear changing by allowing levers to be pushed to a set position. Because I still use a Campag cassette with a Campag rear mech and the levers are Shimano, the indexing doesn't work and I have to use friction.

I've always built my own bikes (except frames) from components. I graduated from motor cycles and pedal cycles are pretty simple by comparison - it's basically just an assembly job. You don't have to make anything from scratch. Indexed gearing has introduced an extra that didn't apply before when it comes to combining parts from different manufacturers but it's still fairly straightforward.

I can't see how fitting a different style of handlebar is going to affect handling much. My straight bar riding position is almost exactly the same as riding on the tops of a pair of drop bars. Bicycle handling is a complicated subject but is mostly determined by steering head angle and the trail of the fork. Less trail gives lighter steering and more trail tends to make for more stability. I once had the forks of our Jack Taylor tandem we bought s/h straightened a bit by Mercian's to make the steering more stable by increasing the trail (it worked!).

I've found that no-one actually makes an audax bike with straight bars so you're stuck with modifying/building one for yourself. I suppose if you're not mechanically adept you're stuck with getting it done professionally which might put the cost up a bit.

Geoff

aracer

Geoff_SS wrote:

I can't see how fitting a different style of handlebar is going to affect handling much. My straight bar riding position is almost exactly the same as riding on the tops of a pair of drop bars. Bicycle handling is a complicated subject but is mostly determined by steering head angle and the trail of the fork.

Handling is also affected by your weight distribution, and where your hands are to steer, so a radically different position will affect the handling. Given you don't tend to go round corners on the tops, then the handling will be different.

ForumNewbie

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I like the idea of the stem raiser although not sure if it would fit on my bike. I was looking at adjustable stems like this one which may be an option:
http://www.cyclesense.co.uk/products.ph ... 83s89p2637
as I defintely think raising the level of the bars will help.

Thanks also to Raph for your advice which is not boring or uninspiring at all, as I was starting to get a bit concerned anyway that changing to straight bars could make the bike handle worse and not really solve my problems. Accordingly I will try firstly to raise the level of the bars getting a stem raiser or adjustable stem. My stem is already shortish and pointing slightly upwards but not high enough.

Cheers

ForumNewbie

ForumNewbie wrote:

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I like the idea of the stem raiser although not sure if it would fit on my bike. I was looking at adjustable stems like this one which may be an option:
http://www.cyclesense.co.uk/products.ph ... 83s89p2637
as I defintely think raising the level of the bars will help.

Thanks also to Raph for your advice which is not boring or uninspiring at all, as I was starting to get a bit concerned anyway that changing to straight bars could make the bike handle worse and not really solve my problems. Accordingly I will try firstly to raise the level of the bars getting a stem raiser or adjustable stem. My stem is already shortish and pointing slightly upwards but not high enough.

Cheers

I bought that 125mm adjustable stem (link above) and set it at 50 degrees which has raised my bars by about 3 inches, so that the bars are now about an inch or so above the top of my saddle.

I tested them yesterday and today and the ride now feels a lot more comfortable, so this was definately the best solution rather than just putting on straight bars. I have still to test them on a 30 plus mile ride but things are looking good. It also feels much safer going on steep downhill sections now - previously as well as being particulary straining on my neck and shoulders, I felt that I was liable to go over the handlebars if I had to apply any sudden pressure on the brakes. I also now have better allround vision at roundabouts etc. and find it easier to turn and look over my shoulder.

Thanks everyone for the advice which helped me come to that decision rather than try to just switch to straight bars which would probably not have solved the problem.