Cycle to Work Facilitators - Can you have more than one?

doyler78

Is there any reason why you can't have more than one cycle to work facilitator for instance say cyclescheme or halfords which would allow employees to go sit on the bike as it were and wiggle for those that just want that bargain focus cayo.

Do any of the facilitators put any conditions on employers precluding them from using any other scheme whilst using theirs?

wilkies80

My employer invited tenders from several retailers then interviewed them (which seemed to take forever), but in the end they chose McConvey cycles.We were told that they were the only retailer we could use.I've heard of people going to other retailers than the ones their employer wants to use , but how true that is i've no idea. Good luck.

doyler78

wilkies80 wrote:

My employer invited tenders from several retailers then interviewed them (which seemed to take forever), but in the end they chose McConvey cycles.We were told that they were the only retailer we could use.I've heard of people going to other retailers than the ones their employer wants to use , but how true that is i've no idea. Good luck.

You talking about McConvey Cycles on the Ormeau Road in Belfast?

wilkies80

That's the one m8. Ended up with a Giant TCR0.

doyler78

wilkies80 wrote:

That's the one m8. Ended up with a Giant TCR0.

That's where I got my current bike and where I get all my servicing and parts which I don't buy online from. Good shop.

Your employer really has lead you up the garden path on this. McConvey's is a member of cyclescheme and if your employer is using cyclescheme then cyclescheme does not put any restrictions on which of their partner LBS you use. You could have used any one of 9 LBS from which you could have bought your bike.

|f your employer negotiated with McConvey's directly then they really are not acting in the interests of the scheme or employees as they have severely limited your options and likely participation as no one Local Bike Shop can provide the range of bikes that will meet everyone desires, indeed with all the bike shops that cyclescheme have to offer me I am finding it very difficult to find a bike that I really want given the £1,000 limit, should cyclescheme be the company that gets my Trusts business.

My idea of heaven would for two facilitators, cyclescheme (because of the expertise they can offer to the beginner or less knowledgeable) and Wiggle (because of its huge range the fact it has Focus Cayo's ) however whether this is possible is really the point of the thread - anyone out there who has implemented a cyclescheme or halfords scheme can you advise - was there any restriction placed on you?

TimBaker

if the shop you wish to use is not currently part of cyclescheme you can ask cyclescheme to set them up so that you can use them. This would obviously depend upon the shop wishing to participate.

The £1000 limit is one set by your employer. the employer needs to obtain a consumer credit license ibefore the value of the loan can exceed £1000. Once they have the CCL then I berlieve that the maximum value of the purchase is £10k.

doyler78

TimBaker wrote:

if the shop you wish to use is not currently part of cyclescheme you can ask cyclescheme to set them up so that you can use them. This would obviously depend upon the shop wishing to participate.

The £1000 limit is one set by your employer. the employer needs to obtain a consumer credit license ibefore the value of the loan can exceed £1000. Once they have the CCL then I berlieve that the maximum value of the purchase is £10k.

Thanks Tim I was aware of that however the bike I want is a Focus Cayo which only Wiggle can provide or the Planet X Carbon with Full Ultegra for £999 would do but neither of these brands is available in cyclescheme. When you look at these specs and then look at what you are getting from the bigger brands you wonder what you are paying all the extra for (if only we were talking small differences but we are talking hundreds). Just can't see past these specs when looking at what I may well have to choose from.

My ideal would be wiggle to join cyclescheme. Would bring huge benefits for both as Wiggle would be able to broaden significantly those that could use them through cycle to work and cyclescheme would have a very large, very competively priced bike shop to offer all the companies that use them for their schemes.

To make this possible cyclescheme's 10% cut would need to be scaled back to 5% or less and this could be justified by the significant increase in sales through their scheme and lower costs in dealing with them.

Just a pipe dream I guess.

johnnyhotdog

halfords have been known to order in a bike even if they don't normally stock it - it's worth asking as i'm sure they will source from wiggle.

doyler78

johnnyhotdog wrote:

halfords have been known to order in a bike even if they don't normally stock it - it's worth asking as i'm sure they will source from wiggle.

Thanks, will have to wait to see who gets selected through the tendering process, it is likely that it will be either Halfords or cyclescheme so if it is Halfords I will certain give it a go. Nothing to lose. Worried that Halfords will add a premium for ordering a bike from Wiggle and then that would take my Focus Cayo over the £1000 which means I wouldn't be able to get it anyway. We'll see I guess.

alfablue

doyler78 wrote:

Thanks Tim I was aware of that however the bike I want is a Focus Cayo which only Wiggle can provide or the Planet X Carbon with Full Ultegra for £999 would do but neither of these brands is available in cyclescheme. When you look at these specs and then look at what you are getting from the bigger brands you wonder what you are paying all the extra for (if only we were talking small differences but we are talking hundreds). Just can't see past these specs when looking at what I may well have to choose from.

There are a few dealers that sell Planet-X and they may be in Cyclescheme - e.g. GB Cycles

wilkies80

my employer set a limit of 1000 , anything over that price was paid as a deposit, so it was still the 1000 that the tax relief was on.

alfablue

Many employers / scheme providers are now sticking to the £1000 limit and preventing employee top-ups because of the grey area concerning ownership - the bike needs to be loaned to the employee, rather than owned by them until the loan period is up, to qualify for the tax concession, and also joint ownership could cause problems regarding the bike as an asset of the employer. However, if some employers are more liberal on their interpretation then employees should be able to benefit.

doyler78

alfablue wrote:

Many employers / scheme providers are now sticking to the £1000 limit and preventing employee top-ups because of the grey area concerning ownership - the bike needs to be loaned to the employee, rather than owned by them until the loan period is up, to qualify for the tax concession, and also joint ownership could cause problems regarding the bike as an asset of the employer. However, if some employers are more liberal on their interpretation then employees should be able to benefit.

Yep that was our view. If the employee leaves the scheme early because they leave the organisation then top ups mean that employee has a partial claim to ownership and to resolve it is likely to involve legal expense which would likely turn a self financing scheme into a costly exercise which could jepordise the scheme itself.

Better to steer clear and give most people a scheme which is good enough for them. No one needs a £1,500 bike to go to work and after all that's the purpose of the scheme. All well and good if you can get you can get yourself a good all rounder but lets face its not supposed to be a superbike.

HarryB

Any ideas how I can get my employer to join a scheme? I work for Durham County Council. I'd have thought public sector employers would be keen to get involved

alfablue

HarryB wrote:

Any ideas how I can get my employer to join a scheme? I work for Durham County Council. I'd have thought public sector employers would be keen to get involved

I presume your council have a green transport plan, and somebody responsible for that (a transport planner?), this would be my first port of call. I think above all others, local authorities should be acting as model employers in respect of their environmental impact, so if they are not yet on board (and they may be) they should be shamed into it.

Durham does espouse cycling, so they need to put their money where their mouth is - there is a list of transport contacts here.

RufusA

doyler78 wrote:

Do any of the facilitators put any conditions on employers precluding them from using any other scheme whilst using theirs?

In a word - YES! For example cyclescheme:

The Employer will use Cyclescheme only and not share provision with other companies without prior written authorisation.
The Employer shall agree to use Cyclescheme to provide tax-free equipment for a minimum of one year.
Cyclescheme require three months written notice should the Employer wish to break from the agreement

not to mention requiring the employer to advertise the scheme etc.

This type of restrictive contract was enough to put me/my employer off cyclescheme!

HTH - Rufus.

doyler78

Ah that confirms what had been aluded to do by others but had never been confirmed. To be honest I don't see anything in that which would put my employer off though I dislike it myself because that means no chance of Wiggle in parallel then should they get the business.

Surely they should provide advertising after all they are making 10% on all sales and not doing much else except firing out a standard agreement and a few forms to the cycle shops. Sounds to me like they want their cake and eat it.

scholarsgate

A friend of mine got an On-One kaffenback through our cycle to work scheme which uses Halfords.

RufusA

doyler78 wrote:

Surely they should provide advertising after all they are making 10% on all sales and not doing much else except firing out a standard agreement and a few forms to the cycle shops. Sounds to me like they want their cake and eat it.

Which does beg the question, why does the employer NEED them. If you have a small to medium employer in one location then the employer can simply arrange with a few LBS or a mail order company, negotiate a discount and use a company credit card or cheque book to pay the LBS.

Who needs vouchers, scheme providers, restrictive contracts etc.

YMMV - Rufus.

doyler78

RufusA wrote:

doyler78 wrote:

Surely they should provide advertising after all they are making 10% on all sales and not doing much else except firing out a standard agreement and a few forms to the cycle shops. Sounds to me like they want their cake and eat it.

Which does beg the question, why does the employer NEED them. If you have a small to medium employer in one location then the employer can simply arrange with a few LBS or a mail order company, negotiate a discount and use a company credit card or cheque book to pay the LBS.

Who needs vouchers, scheme providers, restrictive contracts etc.

YMMV - Rufus.

Well did suggest that we should do the scheme ourselves as wiggle publish all the documents online for agreements therefore all you have to do is doctor them to suit your own purposes and you have a scheme in place.

It was suggested to me that if the scheme was to be administered internally then admin staff would need to employed and given the current budgetary constraints that exist (have to save £100m this year) that this would mean the scheme would not be implemented in that climate.

No negotiation with bike shops is really needed as the employer is buying directly therefore it is much like any other purchase to the bike shop.

The employer has a scheme which they have total control over. The employee has full market choice as any shop, LBS or online, is available to them.

Oh its just the culture these days that everything should be outsourced. Soon the computers we use will actually belong to someone else and the organisation just hires them.