Hero and Villain of the year

iainf72
iainf72 Posts: 15,784
edited January 2008 in Pro race
Thought this would do as a pre-Xmas thread.

Any nominations?

I'm still thinking. Oh, you can't nominate yourself as a hero.
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
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Comments

  • vermooten
    vermooten Posts: 2,697
    Villain is easy: Pat McQuaid, for being ineffective

    Need to think some more about heroes, there are too many
    You just have to ride like you never have to breathe again.

    Manchester Wheelers
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Villain: Hein Verbruggen ["he's behind you" shouts the pantomime audience when McQuaid walks onto the stage of cycling]. But this is a very hard fought award, I could nominate hundreds...

    Hero: Davide Cassani, the ex-rider who's now RAI's cycling man, it took guts to say "ho visto Rasmussen".
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    I agree Villain is easy. And you'll all be able to guess mine. (he's got a beard)

    Hero is harder though. Either that or I'm too cynical.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • phil s
    phil s Posts: 1,128
    Heroes rather than hero -

    Stuey O'G for a great P-R win and his never-say-die attitude and his fight back to health after a nasty crash

    Linus Gerdemann - his awesome win in the first Alpine stage of the Tour, when I'd tipped him to win. I was a few feet away from him when he crossed the line and I've never seen anyone look so utterly, utterly f*cked. Had to be carried away because he was about to collapse. And he's a really top bloke.

    Sandy Casar - Great win despite Fido's attempts to stop him

    Roger Hammond - for staying true to himself and being a true sportsman

    Geraint Thomas - for hanging in there when it got really tough and making it through to Paris. I interviewed him a few times along the way and he was always a gent, always using his sense of humour and good nature to fight another day

    David Millar - some may sneer at his stance given his doping past, but he speaks from the heart and honestly

    Okay some of these guys may not have set the world alight (Stuey excepted) but they, and many of the smaller names in the peloton that I have come across, have given me more inspiration than the following -

    Bettini - okay, so you rode a great Worlds but your glib pronouncements on the cancer that is killing our sport and your refusal to be a spokesman against doping leave me cold

    di Luca - Mr "I am calm"... f*ck off, hope you disappear into obscurity

    Vino - almost a caricature of an arch-villain in the end, even if I did always love watching him riding

    Bruyneel, Basso, Basso's sister, Pozzatto, ... in fact I could go on for a while about my anti-heroes but I must go out and do some training now. Can't be wasting my time getting negative
    -- Dirk Hofman Motorhomes --
  • skavanagh.bikeradar
    skavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    Villan: The Peleton for it's collective lying, deceit, fraud and mealy mouthed excuses. Pat McQuaid for being Pat McQuaid. Hein Vebruggen for the last 20 years.

    Heroes: Shamefully for cycling this is actually much harder than it ought to be. Anyone who spoke out about doping and helped move the whole mess forward. The Borat impersonator in the Tour. Vicky Pendleton. The army of volunteers that marshall, time, push off, commissaire amateur events up and down the country every weekend, all year, all weather.
  • ContrelaMontre
    ContrelaMontre Posts: 3,027
    Heroes: The entire British track cycling team
    ... and Cancellara in London. He was just incredible and even though he stuffed the Brits the cheer the crowd gave him when he crossed the line was cool. Great atmosphere and all.

    Villain: Vino.... nuff said
    Rule No.10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster
  • vermooten
    vermooten Posts: 2,697
    This might cause wretching but I'm tempted to say that the heroes of 2007 were the fans who continued to support cycling in spite of everything.

    Actually it's made me feel a bit queasy....
    You just have to ride like you never have to breathe again.

    Manchester Wheelers
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Hero : CONI pitbull Ettore Tori. His single minded approach and quest for the truth should be an inspiration in the world of anti-doping. At his age he should be sitting with his feet up enjoying his life.

    In a way I think Bella Jorg and Sinkewitz did some brave stuff by talking but the reaction of the cycling world has shown us it's better to keep quiet.

    Villain : Bob Stapleton. You can fool some of the people some of the time Bob, but you didn't fool me.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Stapleton the biggest villain of the year? Who are you? Buttons?
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • phil s
    phil s Posts: 1,128
    I think you have Stapleton totally wrong Iain... but I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise. I believe that to a certain extent you formulate the opinion you want to of the man by taking certain unfortunate situations and statements and applying them to the context you choose, i.e. to put him down. He has made mistakes but to call him a villain is a bit far fetched.
    -- Dirk Hofman Motorhomes --
  • vermooten
    vermooten Posts: 2,697
    Sinkewitz was in my shortlist for heroes, or at least honourable mentions.
    You just have to ride like you never have to breathe again.

    Manchester Wheelers
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    phil s wrote:
    I think you have Stapleton totally wrong Iain... but I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise. I believe that to a certain extent you formulate the opinion you want to of the man by taking certain unfortunate situations and statements and applying them to the context you choose, i.e. to put him down. He has made mistakes but to call him a villain is a bit far fetched.

    Perhaps. He may prove me wrong in 08 but this year he played everyone for fools. Again, it's only in my opinion which is formulated based on what he's said in the press and his actions around the team. He could well be a lovely bloke but that really is not relevant.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • oily sailor
    oily sailor Posts: 235
    Heroes

    Tom Boonen for becoming pro cycling's Bill Wyman. "She looks older".

    Cavendish for refusing to talk like an automated sports drone

    Cancellara for being genetically closer to a motorbike than a Swiss



    Villains

    Phil Ligget and Paul Sherwen. "Courage, strong, power, strength, courage, Lance, courage, battle, stronger, courage" zzzzz

    Ricardo Ricco - I just want to ride him into the wall. It's ok, I've got a doctor's certificate that says I'm allowed

    Roger Hammond - for refusing to work properly with Boonen in the closing stages of Paris Roubaix
  • ContrelaMontre
    ContrelaMontre Posts: 3,027
    oily sailor wrote:

    Roger Hammond - for refusing to work properly with Boonen in the closing stages of Paris Roubaix

    I thought it was the other way round and Boonen just tried to ride everyone off his wheel, when he'd have been better off being cooperative?
    Rule No.10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster
  • oily sailor
    oily sailor Posts: 235
    Aye, that one could have been slightly tongue in cheek.

    I was struggling for villains, I think everyone's great!
  • ContrelaMontre
    ContrelaMontre Posts: 3,027
    I obviously had my sarcasm filter turned off!!
    Rule No.10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Hero: Anne Gripper: Legend

    Villain: Phil Liggett: 30 years of denial
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    Timoid. wrote:
    Hero: Anne Gripper: Legend

    Villain: Phil Liggett: 30 years of denial

    However, what trash from Anne Gripper...FFS...
    " Anne Gripper, UCI anti-doping manager explained this discrepancy in October, saying, "In Gent, they use a slightly different technique [than the Paris laboratory]."
    at www.cyclingnews.com



    Bit of advice Anne...make sure every lab does it identically pls or you don't have a credible system...identical machines, procedures, protocol. Anne merely gives dopers the chance to bring down the control system. The suggestion that a rider can be + in 1 lab and not in another turns the system into a farce! I do think A and B Samples must now be tested in seperate labs by scientists who must first declare if they've had contact with scientists of the A test lab and be rules out if they have as testers of the B sample...hence no gossip privately about the sample (as the L'qeuipe-Lance EPO allegation August 2005 raised doubts about LNDD staff)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Dave, you can't be positive in one lab and negative in another lab. Imagine a speed camera, where one version has a high resolution camera with a bright flash and so your dirty numberplate can still be seen, the other has a bad camera in it. In the Gent case, the technicians have just said the results are inconclusive, that the image is grainy, not that there is EPO nor that there is not EPO. Gripper gave a bad phrase but there's a media storm here focussed on the wrong thing...
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Kléber wrote:
    Dave, you can't be positive in one lab and negative in another lab. Imagine a speed camera, where one version has a high resolution camera with a bright flash and so your dirty numberplate can still be seen, the other has a bad camera in it. In the Gent case, the technicians have just said the results are inconclusive, that the image is grainy, not that there is EPO nor that there is not EPO. Gripper gave a bad phrase but there's a media storm here focussed on the wrong thing...

    Except they're using the same camera (ie, wee wee)

    The storm is that 2 accredited labs got different results on the same sample. This has not been explained. Gripper has said some nonsense words around it but nothing in the way of explaining it.

    The sooner A and B samples MUST be tested in different labs the better.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    No, if sample is the same but the ability to analyse it varies. I agree Iain, different labs is a good idea. But Mayo didn't attend the B test, he didn't even send a representative. I'm just worried the mud thrown by Landis is being used to cleanse Mayo. But back to heroes and villains, some more:

    Hero: Stuart O'Grady, goes in the early morning break and stays in front to win Paris-Roubaix
    Villain: Johan "Hooded Claw" Bruyneel
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    iainf72 wrote:
    Kléber wrote:
    Dave, you can't be positive in one lab and negative in another lab. Imagine a speed camera, where one version has a high resolution camera with a bright flash and so your dirty numberplate can still be seen, the other has a bad camera in it. In the Gent case, the technicians have just said the results are inconclusive, that the image is grainy, not that there is EPO nor that there is not EPO. Gripper gave a bad phrase but there's a media storm here focussed on the wrong thing...

    Except they're using the same camera (ie, wee wee)

    The storm is that 2 accredited labs got different results on the same sample. This has not been explained. Gripper has said some nonsense words around it but nothing in the way of explaining it.

    The sooner A and B samples MUST be tested in different labs the better.


    Wee wee is the film, not the camera. The testing equipment in Ghent is not up to scratch.

    While I agree this has been bad, you have to applaud La Grippe for unmasking more cheats than any previous regime by some distance and for her no nonsense approach to the whole thing.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • flattythehurdler
    flattythehurdler Posts: 2,314
    Hero Cadel Evans IF he was clean.
    Villains The entire spanish cycling federation/ sporting federation. Especially the tour winner.
    Dan
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    iainf72 wrote:
    Kléber wrote:
    Dave, you can't be positive in one lab and negative in another lab. Imagine a speed camera, where one version has a high resolution camera with a bright flash and so your dirty numberplate can still be seen, the other has a bad camera in it. In the Gent case, the technicians have just said the results are inconclusive, that the image is grainy, not that there is EPO nor that there is not EPO. Gripper gave a bad phrase but there's a media storm here focussed on the wrong thing...

    Except they're using the same camera (ie, wee wee)

    The storm is that 2 accredited labs got different results on the same sample. This has not been explained. Gripper has said some nonsense words around it but nothing in the way of explaining it.

    The sooner A and B samples MUST be tested in different labs the better.

    Iain, playing devils advocate for a moment, and using your extensive knowledge of what is involved in the epo test, could you come up with a scenario to explain why one lab can get a conclusive result and the other lab can't?
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • phil s
    phil s Posts: 1,128
    off topic, take it to the mayo thread
    -- Dirk Hofman Motorhomes --
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Let's bring it back then.

    Hero: the analyst in the LNDD lab

    Villain: the analyst in the Gent lab
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • phil s
    phil s Posts: 1,128
    :roll:
    -- Dirk Hofman Motorhomes --
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Not funny, huh? :)
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Heroes: Cassani, Torre, O'Grady, Saul Raisin.

    Villains: Rasmussen, McQuaid, Prudhomme, and I can't believe no-one has said Will Geoghegan. What a scumbag.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    Heroine: Anne Gripper - say what you like about the UCI (and I often have) but she's given some much needed direction and credibility to their drug testing activities.

    Hero: I only saw Paris-Roubaix on video after the race (and I knew the result) but I thought O'Grady's ride was superb. It was credible too which has been a rare occurence in recent years.

    Villain: A cast of thousands - Rasmussen for his lies, Contador for his mealy-mouthed defence, Bruyneel for signing Basso, Will Geoghahan (sp?) for that phone call, Tinkoff for signing Hamilton, Vinokourouv, Kashechin, Sinkewitz the list goes on.

    I'll also name Bob Stapleton too - a anti-doping policy needs to be more than some PR fluff if you want it to be credible.

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