Another negative thread....

redddraggon

.......I'm sorry.

But why do drivers see the need in cutting you up even though you are approaching an obstacle, and then jump on their brakes?

I've had a lot of incidents like this recently. Today I was approaching a T-junction which was clogged so I slowed down as I was getting close. Car passes me and leaves me with, instead of the 10m I had, 3m braking distance. 3m is not enough when you are expecting 10m! Luckily There was a gap to the left and got past her, and stayed in front her.

Do they not realise that we are likely to go into the back of them if they keep doing that?

ratty2k

All I can say is "I sypathise with you" but, I'd ride further out so its physically impossible for them to pass. Saying that, some will just try and force you out of the way.

Shadowduck

There seems to be a burning psychological need to get in front of the cyclist at all costs - overriding logic, sense and human decency.

Just be glad you're not one of them. That kind of stress level can't be good for you.

spen666

Shadowduck wrote:

There seems to be a burning psychological need to get in front of the cyclist at all costs - overriding logic, sense and human decency.

Just be glad you're not one of them. That kind of stress level can't be good for you.

I suspect part of it is down to the fact motor vehicles can out brake you and also down to the perception of risk being less when in a motor vehicle

magicroundabout

I think it's partly down to judgement of relative speeds and distances too. Drivers seem to think "Oh it's a bike, I'll overtake that quickly, no problem", when actually you may be doing 20-30mph or more and they can only crawl past you on a 3-mph road.

I particularly get this on one bit of my commute that's a long straight road that I share with buses. They always try to overtake me but end up taking an age to get past me and needing to pull in to the next stop before they're completely past. I slow down and let them past now before overtaking them in return...that's fun!

I've also learned to cycle very defensively at "pinch points" where lanes merge or get narrower, to go through bridges and such like.

I'm interetsed to hear how others handle such situations.

MR

prj45

Shadowduck wrote:

There seems to be a burning psychological need to get in front of the cyclist at all costs - overriding logic, sense and human decency.

Just cyclists?

Many people in cars risk their lives (and the lives of others) just to get in front of other cars too.

But then , so do some cyclists, and some peds absolutely risk their life darting across roads just to get to a job they hate 10 seconds sooner (if indeed that's what happens).

And I love watchng tube commuters fling themselves at closing tube train doors.

Many people just need to chill right out, and get over the evolved behaviour to just get in front of other people.

Thing is, I was at an airport the other week, and I observed that the scummy people that jump up in front of everybody else are the ones that will probably survive if the plane catches fire, which probably sums up why we seem to be set up to think like this.

BentMikey

magicroundabout wrote:

I've also learned to cycle very defensively at "pinch points" where lanes merge or get narrower, to go through bridges and such like.

How do you do this?

Shadowduck

prj45 wrote:

Shadowduck wrote:

There seems to be a burning psychological need to get in front of the cyclist at all costs - overriding logic, sense and human decency.

Just cyclists?

Cyclists in particular, I think. There is an assumption that cyclist = slow, so this makes the need to get in front even more pressing. Who knows, otherwise they could be behind you for another twenty yards or so! :shock:

Mayhemwmb

BentMikey wrote:

magicroundabout wrote:

I've also learned to cycle very defensively at "pinch points" where lanes merge or get narrower, to go through bridges and such like.

How do you do this?

To ride defensively I always ride a little further into the lane, this means if anyone is being stupid you have a bit more room for manouvre

Sea_Green_Incorruptible

magicroundabout wrote:

I think it's partly down to judgement of relative speeds and distances too. Drivers seem to think "Oh it's a bike, I'll overtake that quickly, no problem", when actually you may be doing 20-30mph or more and they can only crawl past you on a 3-mph road.
MR

I think a lot of car drivers also misjudge just how fast you can go on a bike. They just assume you will be slow. Go to overtake and then panic when they realise that you are speeding along...

graeme_s-2

I had an incident last week on the way home. I was coming up to junction where I make a right hand turn onto a side road. There was traffic backed up from a junction further up the road, pretty much to where I wanted to make my right hand turn. Just as I stuck my arm out to indicate right so I could move into the primary position, an old-style micra started to pass me. It then had to swerve in towards me to avoid having a head on collision with a car coming the other way. At this point there wasn't much room left to the back of the queue, and the car braked heavily, skidded some distance and came to a halt a few millimeters off the back of the last car in the queue. In the mean time I had also braked heavily, also locked up, and had to dive into the tiny gap between the car and the curb to avoid rear ending the car.

I then banged on the rear passenger side window and shouted "What the f**k are you doing?" and was rewarded by seeing the driver jump out of her skin. I left it at that, I think she was probably feeling pretty terrible at that point and was just glad that she hadn't caused an accident. It never fails to astound me the risks people will take to gain tiny amounts of ground (or in this case no ground at all as I would been turning right off that road).

DavidTQ

Graeme_S wrote:

I had an incident last week on the way home. I was coming up to junction where I make a right hand turn onto a side road. There was traffic backed up from a junction further up the road, pretty much to where I wanted to make my right hand turn. Just as I stuck my arm out to indicate right so I could move into the primary position, an old-style micra started to pass me. It then had to swerve in towards me to avoid having a head on collision with a car coming the other way. At this point there wasn't much room left to the back of the queue, and the car braked heavily, skidded some distance and came to a halt a few millimeters off the back of the last car in the queue. In the mean time I had also braked heavily, also locked up, and had to dive into the tiny gap between the car and the curb to avoid rear ending the car.

I then banged on the rear passenger side window and shouted "What the f**k are you doing?" and was rewarded by seeing the driver jump out of her skin. I left it at that, I think she was probably feeling pretty terrible at that point and was just glad that she hadn't caused an accident. It never fails to astound me the risks people will take to gain tiny amounts of ground (or in this case no ground at all as I would been turning right off that road).

Had much the same happen to me this morning some woman in a people carrier approaching a clearly red light overtook close, cut right up infront of me slamming on her brakes to not pass the red light... I took the escape route down her right hand side clapped and said very calmly nice cut up well done, as she looked steadfastly ahead at the red light and I reversed up and sat behind her...

Maybe that would have been a good time to have pointed to the helmet cam if I had one and said the police will find that one interesting...

redddraggon

It often to be women who seem to be doing this, perhaps they shouldn't be allowed to drive?

DavidTQ

redddraggon wrote:

It often to be women who seem to be doing this, perhaps they shouldn't be allowed to drive?

Of course what takes real guts is to say it in a room full of actual women , the ultimate self sacrificial sense of humour test

dirk_van_gently

couple of weeks ago, some T!T did something similar to me approaching a 1.5 mile tailback of traffic, I genty rode past, and shouted "Genius" to a rather sheepish looking driver. I then went all the way to the front of the queue :-)

I too have noticed the trend that this kind of crap driving is perpetrated by women. However I think you have to take the stance that everyone apart from you is an idiot, then it all makes sense, kind of.

magicroundabout

I've also learned to cycle very defensively at "pinch points" where lanes merge or get narrower, to go through bridges and such like.

How do you do this?

My "favourite" pinch point is just after some traffic lights where two wide lanes narrow to one to go under an old-fashioned railway bridge. Motors think they can pull away quicker than I from the lights and so attempt to overtake from a standstill in <100m of road. Taking up "primary position" doesn't help because there's two lanes. Most drivers are on the outside lane coming in and, I guess, just don't see me (or just don't think that merging with a cyclist will be a problem).

Basically I ride defensively by assuming that I'm going to be cut up every time. In practice this means I do the following:

1) Listen carefully to the traffic around me.
2) Look around at what's going on really early and keep an eye on what's going on.
3) If possible, make eye contact with the driver behind/beside me - just to say "hey...I'm here...make sure you leave me some room"
4) Spot someone cutting me up as early as possible, slow down, and just let them do it.
5) If it looks like you're going to be cut up, establish conatct and re-negotiate with the NEXT vehicle behind/beside.

I was surprised when I read "CycleCraft" to find that negotiation is an "advanced" skill. I take it for granted, both when cycling and when driving, that this happens. (If you don't know what CycleCraft is go buy the book and read it now!!!)

MR

john holiday

The sort of driving behavior described simply goes to show that most drivers don't think about what they are doing & show little or no sense of anticipation.
The only answer is education & making drivers re-set a test, say every five years.
Perhaps then there might be a better perception of what they are doing,how they should react with other road users & realise that they are driving a potentially lethal object at speed!
Little prospect of it happening unfortunately. Look at the dithering over young drivers & high accident rates.

mea00csf

Oi harsh!!

Having said that, i did end up in an interesting situation the other day:

there is a single lane bridge over the railway on my way to work. There is no priority and it's not traffic lighted at all and has a slight bend with high stone walls on each side. The visibility to the other side of the bridge in either direction is poor and so requires users to slow right down before proceeding if it's clear. I'd checked there was nothing coming and was halfway across the bridge, when this women coming in the opposite direction seems to decide she can't be bothered to stop and wait for me (i take the whole of the single lane bridge as it is tight) and starts across. We come face it face in the middle where i force her to stop and she has to look at me while i shake my head at her :roll: . The traffic behind her had waited at the entrance as they realised i had right of way as i was on the bridge first. I did consider making her back up but she looked a little embarresed to say the least that i'd forced her to stop in the middle of the bridge so i just squeezed past at the edge then moved back to the centre afterwards.

Thing that made me laugh was the guy at the front of q of traffic who hadn't followed her onto the bridge gave a :roll: and a smile so i think he realised what had happended

sbullett

Mayhemwmb wrote:

BentMikey wrote:

magicroundabout wrote:

I've also learned to cycle very defensively at "pinch points" where lanes merge or get narrower, to go through bridges and such like.

How do you do this?

To ride defensively I always ride a little further into the lane, this means if anyone is being stupid you have a bit more room for manouvre

The other day on the way into work I went through one of those pedestrian crossing pinch points - no zebra or lights, just a little fenced off island in the centre of the road leaving just about a lorry's width of road. It's on a slight incline about 100 yds after a major traffic-lighted junction. The lights had been red and so having just set off I'm doing only about 12-13mph. I normally ride this site as close to the kerb as possible to let cars thorugh, but as I am getting increasingly confident in taking the primary and asserting my right to be on the road I was about 2-3 feet from the kerb.

Bad move, nutter in a white transit decides that there's loads of room still and goes through catching his wing mirror on my right shoulder. My some miracle, not only didn't it hurt but it didn't knock me off. It did slam the mirror back into his window though (sadly didn't beak it though...). The really scary bit is that he must have know he had hit me but didn't even slow down. Iit was too dark and he was going too fast to get his number plate.

I've learned my lesson - it's full on in the middle of the lane at this site from now on....sitting just a bit further out than normal doesn't work, drivers still think they can squeeze through.

Shadowduck wrote:

There seems to be a burning psychological need to get in front of the cyclist at all costs - overriding logic, sense and human decency.

A good example of this the other day, guy in a beemer decides that he is going to overtake on a sharp left hand bend, approx 50 yards from a give way, even though I'm indicating right, in primary and doing 20mph. Sadly for him he came upon the traffic island with bollards in the middle of the road and only managed to stop about 2-3" from the bollard - at least he had the decency not to swerve left and take me out.

Adamskii

Expect everyone to do everything you don't want them to. Be ready for cars to pull out of side junctions on top of you. Be ready for drivers cutting you up. Be ready for people opening their car doors into you. Be ready to avoid blind pedestrians walking into the road without looking. Accept that all these things will happen every day. Prepare yourself and anticipate that these events will happen and you will greatly increase your chances of survival.

magicroundabout

...anticipate that these events will happen and you will greatly increase your chances of survival.

and you will be pleasantly surprised when people do the right thing, rather than excessively annoyed when people do the wrong thing.