Wheelset

asdesign

Right. I want a new wheelset for racing and some training (mixed routes). A good all-rouder required. Approx £500-600 to spend. I'm thinking Ksyrium SL Premium or Campy's Shamal Ultra. Any thoughts? Other suggestions?

il_principe

Fulcrum Racing Zero's.

cswebbo

I can 100% recommend either the Campag Neutron or Euros. Both are bomb proof even on country lanes full of pot holes.
Like you, i'm thinking ofupgrading to the Shamal Ultras around Easter next year. The titanium finish is a lot better than the 2007 gold colour.

asdesign

You mean they're not gold this year? Interesting. Are the Shamal Ultra's nice and fast and responsive?

robbarker

If you're racing they need to be repairable, and handbuilt wheels are generally more easily repairable than factory built ones with non-standard spokes and building patterns.

Hubs to match your groupset, something like DT RR 1.1 rims and DT aerolite spokes (if you want them to look flash) or good old Open Pros with DT Competition double butted (if you want to be able to get them easily repaired at your LBS or by yourself) would build into superb wheels if put together properly.

aracer

Or what I've just built up - AC420 rims on Record / AC Micro hubs with CX-Rays. Lighter than the Ksyriums, almost as light as the Shamals and a lot more aero than either - with the bonus of leaving you with a chunk of change in your pocket (as well as being easily repairable).

wildmoustache

aracer wrote:

Or what I've just built up - AC420 rims on Record / AC Micro hubs with CX-Rays. Lighter than the Ksyriums, almost as light as the Shamals and a lot more aero than either - with the bonus of leaving you with a chunk of change in your pocket (as well as being easily repairable).

Is there any reliable wind-tunnel data on the shamals? C+ rated them highly in aero terms in their test ... for what it's worth.

In any case, they don't have the qualities of a genuinely aero wheel I would agree (though more aero than Ksyriums, Zeros and lots of other mid-section wheels I would fancy)

The Shamals are nice wheels for everything except for TTing. They are VERY strong, have the best hubs in the world in my view (maybe old school Dura Ace is as good I grant you), are light, and look good (depends on your view).

I find CX-Rays unreliable, but other than that I like the sound of your build ... might go for a pair with DT Aerolites

aracer

wildmoustache wrote:

I find CX-Rays unreliable, but other than that I like the sound of your build ... might go for a pair with DT Aerolites

How so? I have heard of problems with them breaking, but as always :roll: I'm sceptical, and wonder whether it was down to poor building. No real preference for CX-Rays or Aerolites - they are virtually the same thing - but I could get CX-Rays cheaper.

Oh, and BTW the theoretical aero problem with the Shamals isn't the rim depth (which is too shallow to have any real aero effect), but the thick spokes. I have to admit if I had to buy a pre-built wheel in that sort of price range they would be near the top of my list though.

wildmoustache

aracer wrote:

wildmoustache wrote:

I find CX-Rays unreliable, but other than that I like the sound of your build ... might go for a pair with DT Aerolites

How so? I have heard of problems with them breaking, but as always :roll: I'm sceptical, and wonder whether it was down to poor building. No real preference for CX-Rays or Aerolites - they are virtually the same thing - but I could get CX-Rays cheaper.

Oh, and BTW the theoretical aero problem with the Shamals isn't the rim depth (which is too shallow to have any real aero effect), but the thick spokes. I have to admit if I had to buy a pre-built wheel in that sort of price range they would be near the top of my list though.

Not sure why but i've had problems on two wheels with CXs and was told by a wheelbuilder to go for Aerolites as he thought they were stronger, but you're right it could be the build and complete bollox.

On the aeroness of shamals ... the spokes are thinner than eurus and thinner and fewer in number than ksyrium, but you're right that they won't be as aero as CX/aerolites etc. i have genuinely aero hoops as well as shamals but i still like em a lot as they look nice IMO on a campag bike, are super strong and nice and light for the mountains.

unless you're using them for TTing, there is a lot to be said for getting the set of hoops you like the look of .. given how important feeling good about your bike is.

i approve wholeheartedly of your choice of hubs. hard to beat that.

aracer

wildmoustache wrote:

unless you're using them for TTing, there is a lot to be said for getting the set of hoops you like the look of .. given how important feeling good about your bike is.

When you come down to it, given that at crucial points in a road race (or sportif) you are in relatively clean air, surely a good aero wheel is just as important for those as for TTs?

Monty Dog

For racing or even sportives I'd want a pair of wheels that are strong, light, reliable and aero in that order - the amount of time you spend in 'clean' air is minimal - IME a pothole is more likely to scupper your chances than having a 'slightly' more aero wheel as you gallop to the line. Whilst I don't doubt the abilities of a handful of wheel builders, to get something as strong and light as a pair of Shamals in handbuilts is pretty difficult - sub-400g rims are hard to come by and often are not too durable. I'd quite happily take a pair of Shamals around Paris-Roubaix, but I'm not sure that a pair of handbuilt super-hoops would last the course.

aracer

Monty Dog wrote:

For racing or even sportives I'd want a pair of wheels that are strong, light, reliable and aero in that order - the amount of time you spend in 'clean' air is minimal

That's true, but as I mentioned above, those are the times when performance is important (unless your aim is to simply finish in the pack). Given the relative importance of aero and weight, I'd at least put light below aero, though I accept your other points.

The rims on my 1430g pair are 470g each though, so not exactly lightweight and fragile - it's only the low spoke count which marks them down from a strength POV, and Shamals have exactly the same issue. I certainly can't see any reason at all why my handbuilts should be any more fragile than Shamals.

dave5n

Ksyriums or DA Hubs surrounded by open pros.

dbg

I wouldn't touch Fulcrum or Campag wheels (same thing really) cos you can't get tyres on or off the fcuking things

thenumber8

i too have been mulling over wheels at this price point. Was considering Fulcrum 1s (over Mavic ES or SL Premium) but have recently been looking at Hed Jet50s. £600 per pair, 60g heavier than F1s but more aero. Most of my riding is 3-4 hours and I don't want a wheel that's too harsh so still undecided. Anyone used Hed's before?

a_n_t

dbg wrote:

I wouldn't touch Fulcrum or Campag wheels (same thing really) cos you can't get tyres on or off the fcuking things

just put pro race 2's on my zondas - piece of p1ss, but then i have strong hands

powenb

I'm also in this situation and will shortly be purchasing the Ksyrium SL Premiums.

wildmoustache

aracer wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

For racing or even sportives I'd want a pair of wheels that are strong, light, reliable and aero in that order - the amount of time you spend in 'clean' air is minimal

That's true, but as I mentioned above, those are the times when performance is important (unless your aim is to simply finish in the pack). Given the relative importance of aero and weight, I'd at least put light below aero, though I accept your other points.

The rims on my 1430g pair are 470g each though, so not exactly lightweight and fragile - it's only the low spoke count which marks them down from a strength POV, and Shamals have exactly the same issue. I certainly can't see any reason at all why my handbuilts should be any more fragile than Shamals.

handbuilts are a risk ... IF well built than they could be as strong but that's the if. Most wheelbuilders don't have much experience putting together anything beyond the standard pile of spokes with open pros. Campag wheels are exceptionally strong - I think on that front their reputation speaks for itself.

Also, I'd reckon your front wheel is unlikely to be as strong with an american classic micro hub. It's a light hub, and nice, but with quite limited sealing and a narrower flange than the record hubs on the shamals.

aracer

Granted the wheelbuilder hasn't got much experience of low spoke count wheels, but they're not actually any more difficult to build, as all the same principles apply. I'm fairly happy that they are well built since the tension is even and high, and given he's only had one spoke break on any of his wheels, and none of the wheels built by him have needed any tweaking after the first ride.

Meanwhile I accept your point about the sealing on the Micro hub - however I have an AC MTB hub which supposedly suffers from the same problem and has gone through a lot worse conditions than the road bike will see, and the original bearings lasted over 3 years. Anyway, that has nothing to do with the strength of the wheel, just the maintenance required (if that's an issue then get a Tune front hub, or even back as well to save a bit of weight over the Record, and you'll still have change from the Shamals). Having checked the specs, the flanges on a normal Record hub are only 1mm further apart than those on a Micro. Given the Shamal hub only differs from a Record in the straight pull shell, it's reasonable to assume the flanges are the same width on that, so with my head in lacing and a deeper rim, the bracing angle on my front wheel is just as good (if not a little better!) and the wheel will be just as strong.

asdesign

thenumber8 wrote:

i too have been mulling over wheels at this price point. Was considering Fulcrum 1s (over Mavic ES or SL Premium) but have recently been looking at Hed Jet50s. £600 per pair, 60g heavier than F1s but more aero. Most of my riding is 3-4 hours and I don't want a wheel that's too harsh so still undecided. Anyone used Hed's before?

I've got a HED Alps rear wheel. It's a bit old, but as a 50mm section carbon rim with alloy braking surfaces, like the Jets. It runs very well, and I've not had any problems with it. It's difficult to tell if the deep section rim makes you faster. It is heavy, though - a little over 1000g from memory. I suspect that the Jet is probably heavier than the advertised weight also. And the pair are 225g heavier than Shamals. Still, I use my Alps for TTs (since I've not splashed out on a disc rear yet). One problem with my HED is that the freehub body is alloy and hence is notched from the cassette - and it's not replaceable.

tony_s

FWIW I've been running Shamals since late May. Purchased them just before a trip to the alps replacing the Protons that I'd been running for about a year. Overall they've been pretty fantastic, inspiring great confidence on descents particularly. They roll beautifully: man, those hubs are smooth! The only black mark was an incident where my chain went into the drive side spokes causing £100-odd worth of damage- this has left a bad taste in the mouth and would make me consider handbuilts more favourably in future, if only handbuilts looked a bit more bling!!

fortyone

dbg wrote:

I wouldn't touch Fulcrum or Campag wheels (same thing really) cos you can't get tyres on or off the fcuking things

Aye - a bit more difficult to put tyres on, but Campag are brilliantly put together, which is a lot more important.

mtbleigh

Got to agree with dbg. Getting tyres on and off of fulcrums is an absolute bitch. I'll stick with mavics or the like.