Ambrosio Excellence or Mavic OP?

JWSurrey

Yeah - sorry - Another "winter wheels" thread.
I've got a lovely set of Mavic OP CDs on the Ultegra road bike:

I've just scoured my way through my Campag. Vento. on the Audaxer and am after a replacement, but preferably something different to the OP if poss. just to compare and contrast.

I've been recommended Ambrosio Excellence and advised it would be better than the Excelleight SSC - Is this to do with robustness/flex/stiffness?

Can anyone confirm if these Ambrosios are double eyeletted?

What would your choice be/what are these like?

Monty: I remember you did a good review of alternatives to the run-of-the-mill Open Pro.
Any recommendation?

I'll be running it on the steel Audaxer with 25c.
I'm touching 13 stone, and sometimes carry a rack pack or light pannier bag (tools, map, D-lock, trousers), however the bike was used last year for the Tour of Wessex, so I don't want a bombproof/heavy touring wheel -
I also do hill work and nothing speedy, so I'm not bothered about aero-section - more bothered about rotational weight and stiffness.
The Vento still runs almost completely true (c.1mm lateral), though I feel something slightly tougher is in order.

Was thinking 32H and straight gauge, but open to suggestions on hub/spokes/rim.

tatanab

Another OP look alike is the DRC ST17. I have both Op and ST17 in use and the only discernable difference is that the ST17 has brake wear indicators and I think it is better finished. Mavic had some bad press for a couple of years with rims cracking, that is why I wanted to look at a different manufacturer.

http://www.withoutdoors.co.uk/product.p ... de_id=1937

alan_sherman

Dt 1.1 rim - although make sure it is the double eyeletted version (early versions were single eyelets to keep weight down).

A quick google bought up this:
http://www.petracycles.co.uk/product_in ... s_id=11953

I'd say 36 double butted spokes on the rear to be safe, front would be fine as 32 or perhaps even 28.

derosa

Ambrosios every time.

acorn_user

The Excellence is double eyeletted; good news for the wheelbuilder.

If you are less concerned with weight, I like the Rigida Chrina a lot. It has the raised box profile of the others, and weighs around 500g. We've been happy with ours; I have them on my race bike, and my wife has them on her commuter. They are only 12 pounds, for double eyeletted versions. Of course, this is wheel build dependent!

pcd993

I have the Ambrosio Excellights on one of my bikes, DTR1.1s on another and OPs on another. I run them all at various times. I have had a few issues with the Excellights going out of true. The Excellights do feel a bit stiffer than the OPs. Although it is early days for long term testing, the DTs do not seem quite as robust in feel as the OPs.

I have never had any problem with my OPs after thousands of hard miles. The OPs are about the same weight as the DTs and Ambrosios but are lighter than the Excellences. Stick with the OPs, but get them built up by someone with a decent reputation.

JWSurrey

Thanks for the experiences and advice.
PCD - Thanks for the comparisons too - Damn - sounds like I might be better off getting the road bike's Ultegra hubbed rear OP CD 32H converted for Campag. and save up for a new set of summer wheels. I feel very unadventurous getting an identikit pair of OPs on Campag.

Would you put the Excellite issues down to a more flexy rim, or down to the spokes?

Curious to know why you have chosen these different rim types - For testing/comparison purposes, or have you found them better at different tasks?

Wheel builders:
Not sure I can afford the Condor premium this time round.
Was thinking about:
Dauphin in Box Hill, as it's on my regular run and they have a big empty car park, or
GB in Croydon, or failing that
Harry Rowland mail order.

Any experiences here?

harrywolper

I've bought 2 sets from Harry Rowland and price, build quality and service have been excellent. He's a very knowleageable and friendly guy.

Monty Dog

Roland at Dauphin, Box Hill has a pretty good reputation - my friend has some, plus I have a pair from Harry Rowland that were well-built until I pulled them apart and replaced the awful Quando hub with something longer lasting. Somebody who doesn't advertise but does build quality wheels is Mike Perry at Maestro in Bognor - he builds race wheels for a racing team in Belgium. Pete Matthews also has a great reputation.

pcd993

The OPs and the DTs are both built on Dura Ace hubs and use standard cross spoke patterns. The OPs were bought from Cycles Dauphin and are very reliable. I had a previous set of OPs from Harry Rowland, equally fine. The DTs were bought from Condor.

The Ambrosios are on Tune hubs and are radially spoked at the front (a mistake I feel). They too were built by Harry. I got these checked out by my local mechanic, and his opinion is that the Tune hubs are more tricky to build a tough wheel with.

From the mags, Hewitt seems to be recommended also.

scherrit

Who supplies ambrosio rims here in the UK? can't seem to find a supplier apart from total cycling who only offer 32h????

JWSurrey

GB Cycles of Croydon (who do mail order) offered them to me.
Excellight and Excellence.

Dauphin said they could get them in if I wanted them too.

I would have thought you could probably mail order them from someone in Italy too.

scherrit

Brilliant, Thanks!

JWSurrey

Thanks again chaps, and Monty for your PM and local Surrey knowledge.
Nice to get some feedback on Dauphin, as I wasn't totally sure about using them.

PCD - Do you think Tune are worth the extra cash over Campag. Record?
Condor have a fab. pair of black (unspecified) Mavics on Tune in store at the moment, but at GBP485, I'm not totally sure they'd be my first choice.
They weren't very specific about the spokes or type of Tune hub, so I'm not totally sold on these unless they turn out to be a bargain price.

Will I notice any difference between a Centaur (or indeed DA) hub and a Tune hub?

Total overkill for a winter-grinder wheel, but hey, being chased on an empty wallet by the wife with a frying-pan will be all the incentive I need!

scherrit

Tune are bike jewelry, i.e. function is good enough and you're paying for a whole bunch of stuff that I (personally) won't pay for.... weigh saving at the centre of the wheel, beauty, etc

So: it's your nickel.....

pcd993

I have the Tune Mag 190, and I think I would steer clear of them for the future. Go with Record, and perhaps get some lighter skewers if that sort of thing bothers you.

JWSurrey

Thanks for the assistance chaps.
I decided to try the DT RR1.1 (Double eyelet) as they have the wear markers, and were available at Dauphin.
It wasn't economic to either pay to have the Vento rim replaced or to have the OP CDs on Ultegra changed, as they wanted to re-spoke them.

The guy was pretty good - he picked up the Vento, ran his fingers over it, and said "You need to re-balance your rear caliper slightly - It's slightly more worn left side" - which was good to hear - I'd had to re-centre it in the summer.

I've opted for Centaur hubs.
These were recommended over Record for winter wheels.
Apparently it's prohibitively expensive to replace the bearings/cups in Record, whereas Centaur is a cartridge - so much simpler/economically viable.

One question I may put as a separate post - Centaur hubs seem to be heavier than Mirage - so why am I bothering?! (Just read the specs).

Having DT Comp. DB spokes 3x in the rear and revolution DB in the front (not recommended in the rear).