are tri bars dangerous?

webbhost

Hi,

Was just wondering how people feel about Tri-Bars as I dont tend to see bikes with them on, and I have restrained myself from getting them so far due to the "danger" factor?

Should you be leaning onto these tri bars.... how long would it take you to get over to your brakes should you need to do a very very quick stop?

Also say I can get 38.5 MPH down a hill, how much difference would you expect if I transferred onto Tribars on the same hill?

heavymental

I think you'd probably switch to the drops for more control on the descent wouldn't you? I don't think they're that dangerous if used in the right circumstances. I.e flattish straightish roads where you aren't likely to encounter obstacles, traffic, junctions etc. Don't think you'd use them where there's a chance you might need to grab for the anchors.

Smokin Joe

They are no problem used properly as HM says. They make the bike seem a bit unstable at first but you soon get used to it.

woody-som

I always use them, but not on descents or when in the group on the club run. Straight(is) flat roads are fine, and at the front on the club run. Solo rides into a headwind, then anytime as they are much easier. Just watch side winds or sharp bends and downhills if you do use them.

webbhost

Was kinda under the impression they were there to improve aerodynamnics (and yeah they do) but more specifically downhill....

Why is it so dangerous to use them down hill?

woody-som

Usually it's not, but if you have to react to something, you are going far more quickly than along the level, and may not be able to reach the brakes or steer the bike around an object in the road. the extra speed gained downhill is not really worth the risk, the advantage is like you said aero position, and this has more of a payback on the flats, as you will go faster using the same power or the same speed as normal for less effort.

Downhill you are far better to use the drops, just my preference and those that I know as well.

John.T

Only in the wrong place and the wrong time. They should not be used in bunches, on technical descents or any bumpy roads.

blns75

I would say if you think they are dangerous then you need to get more used to them on easy flat roads or just cycling round the block a bit.

I still have some on my old bike (15yrs), started using it again in the summer and hardly touched the tri-bars as didn't feel comfortable. It was weird, once you get used to them then cornering, roundabouts, speedhumps, lorrys flying past - you won't notice any of them.

Monty Dog

Tri-bars require practise, both to get your position rights and also to understand how they affect handling of the bike. Along with anything else, they are not dangerous, but when a user uses them in inappropriate conditions, the rider may be a danger to himself and to others. They do increase braking response time, so require good knowledge of the route / conditions. Use on downhills is critical on course familiarisation and getting your weighting / positioning right.

webbhost

so basically if I got some, as long as I familiarised myself with them on flats before jumping onto them with any decents, then I "should" be ok (althrough accidents can happen, as we all know).

Sounds interesting, I wnt a new bike this summer, might very well be an addition to it

fossyant

Don't use them down hill - not advisable - I used to have a set of Mavic bars on my road bike for TT's and they stayed there all the time - used to use them training etc, but I'd get off them on a fast descent - you are just too far from the brakes and you're also less stable on them. They are designed to give you the most aero advantage, especially on the 'flat'.

I would also use them sometimes climbing - just slide back on the bars so you are only holding the part in front of the handlebars - just another hand position really, and kept your elbows tucked in.

Taken them off these days as I don't TT and don't see any other need for them.

bigmug

There are lots of different tri-bars and its best to chose those that siut the type of riding and the bike. They do upset the steering geometry slightly by loading up the bike front end more.
Whats your reason for considering them - they are a must for serious TTs and very useful for long solo rides in open flatish terrain or even touring.

if you just want to flatten your position into a headwind for relatively short periods then why not look at 'Spinnachi' bars (sorry about the spelling!). These are clip on short bars with no arm pads - but are much lighter and still quite aerodynamic. But again I agree with all the cautions expressed about where to use them.

Bianchi Boy

woody-som wrote:

I always use them, but not on descents or when in the group on the club run. Straight(is) flat roads are fine, and at the front on the club run. Solo rides into a headwind, then anytime as they are much easier. Just watch side winds or sharp bends and downhills if you do use them.

I'm supprised that you're allowed to use them at all on the club run!

dennisn

Here in the states TT bars cannot be used in mass start races and most clubs don't
allow them on club rides. It has to deal with them being a sort of spear sticking
out in front. Not good. Also reaction times are longer on TT bars. They are made for time trialing and nothing more. Be safe and just use drop bars.

Dennis Noward

webbhost

Specific use was for TT (If you can call it that).

I record my times whenver I go out training, and every time I try and beat it.

However thinking about it, if i got a £2000 bike, then I think I would be going too fast to be worried about putting Tri bars on?

I got a dawes 300 bike right now It's alright but I kinda figure its slow lol.

John.T

You won't be going so much faster on a £2000 bike. It is the man that makes the difference. One to two MPH at best. As for your training times, trying to buy improvements is just self deception. Get the improvment by training then if you feel up to doing a real TT consider tri bars.

webbhost

Hi Jon,

You somewhat lost me there.. When I went from a mountain bike to the road bike the difference was immence... Now the weight difference between my current road bike and a £2000 one would be an absolutely massive leap once again, surely this is going to make all the difference? (but granted I do try hard on my bike, I know its down to the rider too).

I just dont see how logically you cant have atleast significant more power when transferring from something that weighs like a brick to something you can life with a fingernail?

webbhost

also are we looking at much difference with hills (I gather that you may not get much more of a top speed etc, but hills are a bummer, and the heavier the bike the harder it is (hence I can get up on a road bike twice as quick as I can on a mountain bike).

Would the same apply for a heavy road bike and a light road bike?

System_1

Just guessing, but what weight is a mid-priced mtb, maybe 28-32lbs? With a similarly priced road bike coming in at possibly 20-23lbs that's a massive weight saving and not one you'd be able to replicate by upgrading your current steed, even with £2000 to spend.

Also you'd be surprised how little the improvement in your speed will be coming from weight savings, it's the tyres and the more aerodynamic position of the road bike that'll have made the biggest difference. Knobbly mtb tyres are significantly slower than skinny 23c road tyres. Even mtb slicks are slow compared to a decent road tyre.

I've got two skinny tyred road bikes, a good bike and a much heavier commuter and although the good bike is lovely to ride and a bit easier on the hills it's not significantly faster than the commuter. Average speed on both is very similar, maybe saving 2 or 3 minutes over an hours ride.

John.T

System is right about the MTB. Knobbly tyres are very in efficient on tarmac. All the noise they make is lost energy.
As for the weight issue. £2000 will get you a bike weighing about 8kg. Say your current one weighs 12kg then your new one is 33% lighter. This sounds good but you weigh say 75kg so your current all up weight is 87kg. You will lower this to 83kg. This is a saving of only about 5%. You will really only notice this saving on hills. What you will notice is how much better the £2000 bike rides and this factor will give the speed a boost.
I know we have got a bit off topic. Back to Tri bars. they only give a big advantage if you ride them in a very low body position. That is with the body almost horizontal to the ground. The guys who use them on touring bikes do not get full benifit from the aerodynamics. Bringing the arms in does help a bit but the body position is too upright. Used this way they can be quite comfortable and more stable than a full on TT position.

woody-som

Bianchi Boy wrote:

woody-som wrote:

I always use them, but not on descents or when in the group on the club run. Straight(is) flat roads are fine, and at the front on the club run. Solo rides into a headwind, then anytime as they are much easier. Just watch side winds or sharp bends and downhills if you do use them.

I'm supprised that you're allowed to use them at all on the club run!

They are always on my bike, and I will only ever use them if i'm the guy in front, never within the group, just too risky. They know I can use them, and still control the bike, but I do know when it's not safe for me or the group, and they trust me on that.

As for spearing anyone, well I have profile airstryke's on both summer and winter bikes, I like the foldable armresest, for freeing the bars for climbing.

Sailing7

I've just changed from drops to Profile T2 with their Airwing bullhorn bar on my commuter. Took a few days to get used to but love them now. One surprising thing is how much warmer I am in the mornings with my elbows and arms tucked in!

Don't forget that as well as you being the heaviest part of the weight equation, your position on the bike also accounts for over 80% of the wind resistance too.

I'm no physicist but I do know from sailing that as wind speed goes up the force of it is increasing by a cube, or something... anyway anything over 25mph requires a lot of effort to push through!

Speeds below 20mph don't really warrant worrying too much about your aero position.

webbhost

Hey again,

YOu'll probably have to excuse me for going a ltitle off topic now, but dont see the point in opening new thread.

Ok so I currently have Dawes 300 bike (which weighs in at 11.5 Kg).

I have seen 2 bikes that I am interested in (See the following links)

http://www.juliescycles.co.uk/index.php ... 04-jc.html (Weight not known)

http://www.juliescycles.co.uk/index.php ... 01-jc.html (this one is 7.5 Kilo's)

All toeghter I would be saving 4KG off 60 kilo's + 11.5 (so 71.5 Kilos > 67.5 Kilos)

A saving of 6% weight (not alot atall, but its something).

If weight is not going to make much of a difference with a £2000 bike, may I ask what is it about a £2000 bike that makes it so worth it?

Is it an incrase in acceleration etc? Or is it plainly so that you can go down the road and say "hah I have a carbon frame!"

John.T

It will be more lively to ride. Probably handle better and absorb road shocks better. It will be stiffer but not in a dead way giving better acceleration. The finishing kit will be better quality and will work and last better. It will also make you feel better. The law of diminishing returns works with bikes. As you spend more you get less gain per £. Your first £1000 gets a bike weighing about 19 to 20 lb. The next will get it down to say 17lb. To get it UCI illegal (6.8kg) would set you back the best part of £4000 to £5000.
£2000 would get you a very good bike which would be more capable than you will be for a number of years yet.
I have the Trek Madone 5.2 Performance model and it is superb to ride.

webbhost

Thanks for the info John T, and everyone.

I like he sound of better acceleration .. I notice also (from eye) the front gear (the 1 wiv the pedals) appears to have a bigger gear than the picture of the dawes.... Kind of gives me the impression that the bike is designed to be faster in the first place (but I'm guessing that is down to the rider and how much power they can input into it).

it sounds well worth the £2000, but any more expensive sounds a bit excessive. a few very small alterations for alot more money.

All I need now is to not touch my savings til the summer and I'll be all set

I'll keep the one I got now for normal road use, and possibly put tri-bars on the new one.. My rides have a good few long straight roads with no turnings lol!

Again thanks people.

Bianchi Boy

woody-som wrote:

Bianchi Boy wrote:

woody-som wrote:

I always use them, but not on descents or when in the group on the club run. Straight(is) flat roads are fine, and at the front on the club run. Solo rides into a headwind, then anytime as they are much easier. Just watch side winds or sharp bends and downhills if you do use them.

I'm supprised that you're allowed to use them at all on the club run!

They are always on my bike, and I will only ever use them if i'm the guy in front, never within the group, just too risky. They know I can use them, and still control the bike, but I do know when it's not safe for me or the group, and they trust me on that.

As for spearing anyone, well I have profile airstryke's on both summer and winter bikes, I like the foldable armresest, for freeing the bars for climbing.

So are you saying you're always at the front? What are you, some kind of Superman, or an irresponsible idiot? :?

webbhost

No I think he was referring to only "using" them whilst at front due to brake disadvantage.

But then again good point, if he's mid group and still has them on, they could still act as a spear i guess

Dunedin397

I certainly don't tink tri-bars are dangerous, as long as they're not used in situations where you may need the brakes very quickly. In that sense, I don't see they're any more dangerous than using the tops of the bars (unless you've got cyclo-cross style levers).

Some people have mentioned they could injure someone as they could act like a spear, but there are many different designs and if you think about it, a spinning wheel could injure you just as easily or even a brake lever.

They do require more balance than when on the drops, but you'll soon develop better balance and you'll soon learn where they can be used and when they can't.

Tri-bars, along with clipless pedals, have been my favourite innovation since I came back to cycling 2 years ago.

Dunedin

woody-som

webbhost wrote:

No I think he was referring to only "using" them whilst at front due to brake disadvantage.

Thats correct, also help pull the group along without major effort on my part, but not for long, i'm not superman

webbhost wrote:

But then again good point, if he's mid group and still has them on, they could still act as a spear i guess

What, when I drop back , do I stop to take them off? How many crashes do you have on a club run?. We've only had 1 last winter, and that was a stick flew in the spokes of one riders bike. No major pile up, as everyone concentrates on whats around them. Certain designs could prove dangerous, but the closed loop of the airstrykes are not the type to spear anyone.