on-line entries
John C.
Posts: 2,113
I think therefore...................
That sportives should either do away with or only put a % of their entries on-line. The fact that most of the popular ones are selling out with in hours suggests that they need to alter the entry system. Many of them you can not enter on the day.
How about:
Only 50% of entries can be on line, the rest by post.
Turn up on the day and any entries that have not booked in by 08.00 are resold.
Yes you will get riders riding without entries, but you do anyway, so if you resell you will increase your revenue and it'll give Joe Bloggs who could not get to a computer on time (and some sportives open the lines earlier than stipulated) a chance to ride officially.
This is a very fast growing sport so please have your say here and now.
That sportives should either do away with or only put a % of their entries on-line. The fact that most of the popular ones are selling out with in hours suggests that they need to alter the entry system. Many of them you can not enter on the day.
How about:
Only 50% of entries can be on line, the rest by post.
Turn up on the day and any entries that have not booked in by 08.00 are resold.
Yes you will get riders riding without entries, but you do anyway, so if you resell you will increase your revenue and it'll give Joe Bloggs who could not get to a computer on time (and some sportives open the lines earlier than stipulated) a chance to ride officially.
This is a very fast growing sport so please have your say here and now.
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Comments
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I agree there are a lot of riders who dont turn up, especially if it rains.
I also understand that the organisers need to do online booking to guarentee income.
What would happen if it was 50% of a 3000 field and it was pissssing down on the day? Do you think 1500 would turn up[ in the rain? I think not
If you have paid it will make you consider going though so I see both points.
Maybe a smaller percentage 10% of entries on the day.
Anyway, there is no law to stop you riding the route at the same time as riders if you did not get a place.
You would just have to ensure you take sufficient food for the ride as you would not have the use of the feed stations.0 -
I can see the arguement for non-online entry, maybe a reserved percentage for postal entries but remember online entries cut down paperwork & hence time required.
We have opened for both postal & on-line for the White Rose Classic & so far aprrox 90% of entries are on-line. The 10% that arn`t will take as much time to process as the 90% which are :-( It is a trade off, lose a proportion of the entry fee for taking up less of a volunteers valuble time.....
Yep you can ride on the public roads at the same time, just remember you are not insured as part of the event, you will not contribute to whichever good cause the sportive is in aid of & if there are enough extra non-event riders you may affect the number of places that are available in following years due to the greater impact the extra numbers can have on peoples peception of what is an acceptable number of riders in some of our most sensitive & beautiful parts of the country.
The roads are there all year if you wanna ride the route cool, why not choose a day that isn`t when many events are on the limit of what the area or road can sustain?
Matt PayneActions speak louder than words, a man stands by his deeds, thought before action if you have time.0 -
If I am a Sportive organiser and I've sold my event out online for the last two years, tell me why I'd want to change what I'm doing!? I don't think the reselling = increased revenue idea would work in practice because of the chance of a cr*p day weatherwise.The fact that most of the popular ones are selling out with in hours suggests that they need to alter the entry system.
Actually it suggests that the organisers haven't optimised their pricing ie they could charge more...0 -
Matt Payne wrote:I can see the arguement for non-online entry, maybe a reserved percentage for postal entries but remember online entries cut down paperwork & hence time required.
We have opened for both postal & on-line for the White Rose Classic & so far aprrox 90% of entries are on-line. The 10% that arn`t will take as much time to process as the 90% which are :-( It is a trade off, lose a proportion of the entry fee for taking up less of a volunteers valuble time.....
Yep you can ride on the public roads at the same time, just remember you are not insured as part of the event, you will not contribute to whichever good cause the sportive is in aid of & if there are enough extra non-event riders you may affect the number of places that are available in following years due to the greater impact the extra numbers can have on peoples peception of what is an acceptable number of riders in some of our most sensitive & beautiful parts of the country.
The roads are there all year if you wanna ride the route cool, why not choose a day that isn`t when many events are on the limit of what the area or road can sustain?
Matt Payne
I was not suggesting everyone rides free Matt
I was just stating that "if" some organisers did allow on the line entry and some one may have travelled a long distance only to fail to register on the line, they could just ride the route.
Personally I would not think it would be many.
My preference would be for the most cost effective and efficient method which is obviously online registratiion but understand there may be a small percentage who still prefer old method of post or on THE line, Audax riders? Ouch watch out for the replies.
As I said in last post it makes sense as it gioves organisers more efficient process and visibility of entries and guarenteed income.
Personally if I was going to travel a long way to an event I would want the comfort of knowing I was pre registered rather than risk on THE line entry.
That could possibly be different if there was an event close to me, then I would probably look at the weather
I only do a couple a year so make sure I enter in time online.
Edited to stop confusion 0 -
On-Line entering through the internet, or, on line entering on the line on the day of the event...????????.........???????????? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :?
I think the idea is to allow non internet connected riders a chance rather than those who turn up on the day but stand to be corrected......
MattActions speak louder than words, a man stands by his deeds, thought before action if you have time.0 -
There are many problems with your suggestion which may on the face of it appear logical. For the Northern Rock Cyclone I have a complete database of all riders with all their details. This is used not only to contact riders prior to the event & send out information but also to plan the event logistics. I have set a maximum of 3000 for the 2008 event and if I allowed 50% to enter by post it would take an incredible amount of time to input all the data. It took literary 100's of hours this year to input data for 1300 riders which included the races on the friday and sunday.John C. wrote:I think therefore...................
That sportives should either do away with or only put a % of their entries on-line. The fact that most of the popular ones are selling out with in hours suggests that they need to alter the entry system. Many of them you can not enter on the day.
How about:
Only 50% of entries can be on line, the rest by post.
Turn up on the day and any entries that have not booked in by 08.00 are resold.
Yes you will get riders riding without entries, but you do anyway, so if you resell you will increase your revenue and it'll give Joe Bloggs who could not get to a computer on time (and some sportives open the lines earlier than stipulated) a chance to ride officially.
This is a very fast growing sport so please have your say here and now.
Accurate data is needed before the day to inform the insurers, satisfy the demands of the Safety Advisory Group which is made up of the Police, St John's, County & City Highway Departments, Licencing authorities plus a few other assorted bodies I have to report to on the event. It is also needed for the electronic timing which is used as a safety measure to track riders and make sure everyone completes the routes safely.
It is also not possible to "resell" places on the day for 2 reasons:
i) riders can start over a 3 hour period and final start figures are not known until everyone has signed on which may be in the last few minutes.
ii) inputing data in for resold places would not be possible in such a short time.
One of the reasons why organisers such as myself have launched our events early is so that planning can be done thoroughly and in good time. It takes me 1 yr to plan a three day event such as the one I organise. Every event has a finite number of participants which is dictated by roads, changing accomodation, parking, manpower etc etc.
It ain't easy being an organiser but i'm not complaining - no matter what we as organisers do we will never be able to satisfy everyone all the time.
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First of all I'd like to say a big thank you to all the people who help to organise these events, I always try and say thank you to as many marshals as possible , as them giving up their day helps to make mine. I also e-mail organisers and ask them to thank the back room staff.
I am in no doubt which way of entry is easiest for the organisers, must admit I hadn't realised the amount of extra time postal booking takes. My point was just that if you happen to be out for the day when the lines open you are not likely to get a place.
I'd still like to see a percentage of all entries only available by post0 -
john - what i did not make clear (my fault :oops: ) is how much data is collected for each entrant by organisers. For the Cyclone the information I collect is very comprehensive, name, age, age band, sex, address, contact numbers including emergency contacts, club, nominated charity, e mail addess etc. I need all of this to run the event safely and efficiently. I award prizes for such things as oldest competitor, furthest travelled, most money awarded for charity etc and this is the reason I need all the information but it does take time to collate all this information.John C. wrote:First of all I'd like to say a big thank you to all the people who help to organise these events, I always try and say thank you to as many marshals as possible , as them giving up their day helps to make mine. I also e-mail organisers and ask them to thank the back room staff.
I am in no doubt which way of entry is easiest for the organisers, must admit I hadn't realised the amount of extra time postal booking takes. My point was just that if you happen to be out for the day when the lines open you are not likely to get a place.
I'd still like to see a percentage of all entries only available by post0 -
John C. wrote:I am in no doubt which way of entry is easiest for the organisers, must admit I hadn't realised the amount of extra time postal booking takes. My point was just that if you happen to be out for the day when the lines open you are not likely to get a place.
The obvious answer is the one that many of the more popular running events have implemented in recent years: determining entrants not through a first-come, first-served policy but by random ballot after a registration period lasting anywhere from a week to up to a few months.
Personally, I don't mind first-come, first-served. For the most part, it rewards the people who are most determined to get a place in their favourite events. But I see your point, too.
8)"It\'s curtains for Karpets!" - David Duffield0 -
Not Eddy Merckx wrote:(snip)...
by random ballot after a registration period lasting anywhere from a week to up to a few months.
I must say I like that idea too. A good example is the Bealach-na-Ba sportif - opened at lunchtime - full (and closed) in 5 hours. I didn't have time to get back from work!
That isn't bad in itself, but looking at the site, they say there's no reserve list. Be interesting to see how many have dropped out by next September when it's run. It'd be a shame or them to be a hundred or more riders down on what was expected.
Speaking to someone who helps organise the Fred Whitton challenge ride down here in the Lakes, reserve lists are a pain. What do you do when someone cancels, you ring the first guy on the reserve list, they're not in, you leave a message for them - how long do you wait etc. etc. A lot of work.
Postal entries favour the 'locals' I suppose, but they're going to make up a fair chunk of most sportifs I guess anyway - and with the FWC they had to pull the entry form off the web site after 24 hours (once they'd got the first post!)
Personally, if an organiser is going to take on-line entries then I think that it should stay open for a week at least. See what the demand is, then select 500 or whatever at random. It would also give them some idea of what the demand actually is. Perhaps organise another event etc.
On-line entries are fine (and necessary) for rides where thousands of riders are competing, but 500?0 -
There doesn't seem to be a fair way to suit everyone. On line entry suits those who have access to a computer all day, postal entry, as said above ,suits the local riders.I think both systems have their merits, but what must be frustrating to organisers and unsuccessful entrants alike is the number of successful entrants who don't turn up on the day. Some will have valid reasons, others perhaps don't like bad weather, others perhaps have family commitments they can't get out of. Either way they take up places that more commited riders would have been only too happy to have received.0
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The trouble with a ballot is you may want to ride an event as a club or group of friends - at least as things stand you can all enter at the same time or else put all your entries in the same envelope. You also have to wait until the ballot to know if you are in or not - by which time you might have missed any alternative events you would have done instead.
I think it's OK as it is - at least there are plenty of events now and whilst some fill up in a couple of days others seem to take long enough that if you wanted to get in you could - and there are still lots of sportives that don't fill up.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
I think this one comes down to how mych you really want to ride the event?
Speaking personally, when I make my mind up to do an event I absolutely make sure I'll give it my all, I find out exactly when the entries are going to be released and i make sure i'm one the very first to sign up.
Its one of those things, if you really want to do it you'll most definitely make every effort to find out as much as possible.
This year I was lucky enough to have good friends in the Cumbrian region to hand in my FWC entry etc, BUT I still ensured I had everything arranged so nothing could go wrong, and beleive me if I didn't have any friends in the cumbrian region I would had taken a day off work and drived down to hand in personally...and thats 3 hours driving...its just my way...if I'm REALYY wanting to do something...I give myself the best chance and will go out on a limb to prove it..
I was one of the very first this year to sign up for the White Rose and also Dave Lloyds Mega Challenge..only one more to get in and thats next years intinery completed!0 -
Not one of the first richyboy THE first!!!! :shock:Actions speak louder than words, a man stands by his deeds, thought before action if you have time.0
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RICHYBOYcp wrote:I think this one comes down to how mych you really want to ride the event?
Speaking personally, when I make my mind up to do an event I absolutely make sure I'll give it my all, I find out exactly when the entries are going to be released and i make sure i'm one the very first to sign up.
Its one of those things, if you really want to do it you'll most definitely make every effort to find out as much as possible.
This year I was lucky enough to have good friends in the Cumbrian region to hand in my FWC entry etc, BUT I still ensured I had everything arranged so nothing could go wrong, and beleive me if I didn't have any friends in the cumbrian region I would had taken a day off work and drived down to hand in personally...and thats 3 hours driving...its just my way...if I'm REALYY wanting to do something...I give myself the best chance and will go out on a limb to prove it..
I was one of the very first this year to sign up for the White Rose and also Dave Lloyds Mega Challenge..only one more to get in and thats next years intinery completed!
Richyboy what would you say is the chance of getting a entry to next years 2008 FWC, I would be posting the enrty on the same day as its on the site.
Of all the sportives I want to do next year the FWC comes top as I have neve done it before,.
I have enrty to the Etape Cal, Northen Rock, and managed to be get into the Bealach very early so that was good.0 -
daowned wrote:RICHYBOYcp wrote:I think this one comes down to how mych you really want to ride the event?
Richyboy what would you say is the chance of getting a entry to next years 2008 FWC, I would be posting the enrty on the same day as its on the site.
Of all the sportives I want to do next year the FWC comes top as I have neve done it before,.
I have enrty to the Etape Cal, Northen Rock, and managed to be get into the Bealach very early so that was good.
Daowned,
Very slim I reckon....its such a popular event, I reckon if this was online entry then it would sell out faster than any other, what happens is the Entries go online at 12.01am on the 8th January...the website sometimes get jammed up so many are trying to download entries at the same time....then through the day on the 8th around 300 - 400 will personally hand in entries to Paul Loftus's home....then on the 9th an enormous sack of entries lands on Pauls door so its luck of the draw....this year its upto a 1000...it'll still be gone in no time at all....
If you really want to do it then I would honestly suggest you drive down to the Lakes on the day and hand in your form...make a day of it and take the bike and have a wee trumble over Wrynose and Hardknott;-)
P.s I'm not doing the FWC next year...but I will be doing the Full FWC route Reccy ride in April with friends....if you don't get into the FWC then come down with me and join up...did this last year and enjoyed it much better than the actual event itself! See my report:-
http://www.bikeit.eclipse.co.uk/localri ... /index.htm
This on my good mates website, the whole webiste is awesome...plenty about the Bealach Challenge etc aswell....and of course the website owners love - Cycling Italy
http://www.bikeit.eclipse.co.uk/
Good luck!0 -
I've always managed to get in FWC - maybe I've just been lucky. I know plenty of people who have managed to arrange an official swop in the past too - people who get injured etc - not sure if that is still possible though they may have introduced an official reserves list instead.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Hadn't thought of the ballot idea, I like that.0
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I used to get annoyed by no EOL system for TTs esp when many events struggled to make up a field. It is slightly more complex but in sportives organisers know from past years and experience roughly what percentage will not show.
Why not pre register a number reserves and then
a) as people drop out before the event wait till a few days prior and send out a note to that number of reserves.
b) on the day, reserves could be told beforehand that at least 5 or whatever percent are likely not to show and thererfore they have the choice of turning up on the off chance of a ride.
Question is whether filling the event and extra revenue is worth the extra admin0 -
rhnb wrote:On-line entries are fine (and necessary) for rides where thousands of riders are competing, but 500?
But some Audax Uk organisers are currently trialling on-line entries for audax events including those which attract about 30-50 riders - so, not a huge number. It's just easier for most people that way - organisers and entrants.0 -
Blonde wrote:But some Audax Uk organisers are currently trialling on-line entries for audax events including those which attract about 30-50 riders - so, not a huge number. It's just easier for most people that way - organisers and entrants.
That's fine - I've no issue with that. The reason it's easier all round is that they're going to accept ALL the entries they can get, so it's definitely a good system for everyone.
There's a bit of a diference between audax and a sportif though in terms of the numbers who want to ride them. I'm willing to be proved wrong but are there many/any audax events where they have to turn down entries due to sheer numbers?
It'll be interesting to see if going down this route means that they get more 'entries' (ie expressions of interest if you like) and whether that's reflected in the number who actually turn up on the day. I also think it's got a lot to do with how they handle waiting lists / folk crying off etc.
Personally if I want to ride an event I'll enter whatever the system.0
