Driving behaviour......
redddraggon
Posts: 10,862
Comments
-
I dont notice it from all drivers but the ones who I do see doing it I tend to get the feeling they are trying to proove a point, a point which is of course entirely lost as the cyclist just passes them whilst they are stopped any way...0
-
Because their observation and/or planning is poor.0
-
David, I really think there is no point trying to be proved. It's a matter of "Who cares about anyone else" and is very blatant. When you start thinking you are actually being considered to be a viable part of traffic by any motorist, you have certainly lost touch with reality. You should know by now, you are considered 'in the way,' regardless of the mode of tranportation you employ. You don't have to be a bicyclist to get the attention others may not get. You are not special, just as I am not special.0
-
bikers46 wrote:David, I really think there is no point trying to be proved. It's a matter of "Who cares about anyone else" and is very blatant. When you start thinking you are actually being considered to be a viable part of traffic by any motorist, you have certainly lost touch with reality. You should know by now, you are considered 'in the way,' regardless of the mode of tranportation you employ. You don't have to be a bicyclist to get the attention others may not get. You are not special, just as I am not special.
In the situations where I see drivers doing their accelerate right up to the bumper of another car before slamming on their brakes, I am actually in a "special" position, unlike the majority of other vehicles they can see Im "beside" them and about to pass them, Particularly on the roads where I see it most they are only used to being passed by motorbikes, which they know they stand no chance against in a straight line, but I do think being passed by a pedal pusher waves the red flag at a select few drivers out there, they dont like being passed, especially by someone using a "slow" form of transport.
Some drivers have a competetive streak to them a certain degree of pride that is injured by passing cyclists. Whilst certainly to the vast majority of drivers when traffic is flowing freely a cyclist is an obstical that must be passed on the road no matter the cost, some seem to find being over taken by a cyclist particularly insulting.
You might not be special but I certainly am
my wife tells me so 0 -
redddraggon wrote:Why do cars feel the need to jump from accelerator to brake and vice versa so aggressively?
I think it must be because it makes them think they are progressing in some way...it's the same mentality which stops them from aloowing people in at junctions...because then they one car further away from their destination. It's very small minded because they are probably the same drivers who go mental when they don't get let in at a junction. For the record I nearly always let one person out of a junction when in the car...that is except for taxi and BMW drivers...who's small minded now? :oops:redddraggon wrote:And why do (the majority of) cars only start indicating once they have started to turn?
It's because people automatically think that if they indicate, then nothing will hit them..."ohh I was indicating, didn't you see it?"...or..."I was indicating...why didn't you get out of my way?"
Either way...they are idiots involved in a very dangerous practice...because they haven't checked PROPERLY that nothing is coming...maybe just a cursury glance in the mirror :evil:0 -
DavidTQ wrote:You might not be special but I certainly am my wife tells me so
My wife also tells me I am special, as well. But I hold no value to a motorist. Because my wife tells me I am special, the motorists do not change their attitudes regardless of what you say. I've been at this for a bit more than 40 years, and it does not get better. Believe me.
Think what you will, but reality is much different. Motorists do not give a flip about you or I or anyone else, motorist, bicyclist, ped, runner, crawler, etc. They are even worse when they have all of their children in the car and know they are safe and protected from their driving habits.
I don't like it anymore than the next guy, but I still have to deal with it.
Do this, get together with some people who you know despise bikers, don't let on that you are one, bait them into a conversation that leads them to expessing their points of view on bicycling in the metro area. You'll get a huge dose of what I already know.
Try it, see if I am wrong. I have also done this.0 -
Forgot about the indication part, that was always a bugbear for me even when driving, I think it comes down to the way people are taught to drive. I was taught "if you're using a junction indicate" my wife learnt to drive with a different instructor years later whos instructor insisted she only indicated when she had seen someone who would benefit from it.
Hence for me indication is a part of using junctions regardless of it I consider it needed or not I indicate at junctions. Same goes for cycling even if I havent spotted other road users around I indicate.
The funny offshoot of that is when Rallying I indicate when approaching junctions even though its closed tracks and theres no traffic and im going at ludicrous speeds and very likely sliding and still the indicators go on instinct unnecesary indication might be wasted effort and a tiny amount of waste power\ fuel, but I would far rather that than missed indications where they are needed. 0 -
I'm with David on the indication.
Auto and bike, the best safety measure is to let people know what your intention is. Turn indication is not intended to save you from a citation any more than it is to make you seem like a nice guy. It is intended to protect you and as a courtesy to other users.
Imagine if you were required to indicate manually that you intend to stop by flipping a switch on your dash. Oh sure.0 -
bikers46 wrote:DavidTQ wrote:You might not be special but I certainly am my wife tells me so
My wife also tells me I am special, as well. But I hold no value to a motorist. Because my wife tells me I am special, the motorists do not change their attitudes regardless of what you say. I've been at this for a bit more than 40 years, and it does not get better. Believe me.
Think what you will, but reality is much different. Motorists do not give a flip about you or I or anyone else, motorist, bicyclist, ped, runner, crawler, etc. They are even worse when they have all of their children in the car and know they are safe and protected from their driving habits.
I don't like it anymore than the next guy, but I still have to deal with it.
Do this, get together with some people who you know despise bikers, don't let on that you are one, bait them into a conversation that leads them to expessing their points of view on bicycling in the metro area. You'll get a huge dose of what I already know.
Try it, see if I am wrong. I have also done this.
OK youve lost me a bit now, what view point are you trying to put across
a) Drivers ignore cyclists altogether
b) Drivers treat cyclists the same way as all other vehicles
c) Drivers HATE cyclists with particular venom but dislike all other road users
or are you trying to say something else entirely??? I dont quite get the point you are trying to make in between comments on a somewhat abstract term of "specialness"
I do not believe a motorist sees me differently from another cyclist, I do believe drivers treat cyclists differently to how they treat other drivers, I do believe that some drivers have a heirarchy system in their head in which car A is more important that car B. (Ive heard BMW drivers claim that anti BMW sentiments come from jealousy...). I dont believe all humans respond as hetrogenous automatons to situations. I believe some drivers (and cyclists) have a competetive nature that makes them want to "fight back" against being passed by a "slower weaker" form of transport.
Some people can succesfully override those instincts others dont even if rising to the situation makes no sense whatsoever. I have to say I never felt that way about cyclists as a motorist, and lost all drive to road ego satisfaction when I took to motorsport. When it comes to cycling im likely to put the hammer down if I were ever to get passed by a full suspension MTB on the road (happened once on my hybrid and never on my road bike).. although there is no way I would every do anything dangerous or short sighted in an attempt to do so.
The fact that I do have these same competetive instincts leads me to believe that there are others out there who have the same human nature issues but who lack the self discipline or "common sense" to react in a sensible manner.0 -
My point is motorists care nothing about any other user on the road, bike, car or otherwise. Zip, zero, zilch, nada. Period. Is that simple enough? Sheesh.
What you or I or anyone else may think only diguises that.0 -
bikers46 wrote:My point is motorists care nothing about any other user on the road, bike, car or otherwise. Zip, zero, zilch, nada. Period. Is that simple enough? Sheesh.
What you or I or anyone else may think only diguises that.
I think you are right to a degree they dont care about you or I, but they do react differently to different types of road users. Whilst they may not give a damn about the feelings or well being of any other road users, they can react very differently to different types of road users in different situations.
That to my mind is a fact having been both driver and cyclist, having driven rigs up to around 40' in length. There is a world of difference in how you're treated and seen on the road between a large vehicle and a bike. People might not give a damn about the well being of either road user but how they are treated and seen is different.0 -
David, I rode a bike as my only form of transportation in Seattle for 20 years. No other vehicle other than the metro to get the bike from one borough to another. For 20 years. On average, 200 miles per week. To work and back as well as weekend rides, which most often were at least 100 miles in two days.
Maybe 1% of the motorists I encountered were courteous. And Seattle is the most bike friendly city I've ever ridden in.
I know of what I speak.
I signal, I wait, I DO NOT jump lights (it is dangerous and creates an unfavorable stigma.)
For me, it is irrefutable considering my experience. They don't care
Personally, as a driver, I can wait anytime I feel the need. Even pull to the side and wait for traffic to clear. 'Matter of fact, I carry a PSP in my car for just such occaisions. It makes 10 minutes seem like 10 seconds when I want to just chill and wait for traffic. Or bikes. Final Fantasy Tactics can get my attention with out hesitation. 'Got a nice sound system as well.0 -
I even drove cab for 3 years. Now there's where you get respect as a motorist. No one f**ks with a cabby.0
-
bikers46 wrote:David, I rode a bike as my only form of transportation in Seattle for 20 years. No other vehicle other than the metro to get the bike from one borough to another. For 20 years. On average, 200 miles per week. To work and back as well as weekend rides, which most often were at least 100 miles in two days.
Maybe 1% of the motorists I encountered were courteous. And Seattle is the most bike friendly city I've ever ridden in.
I know of what I speak.
I signal, I wait, I DO NOT jump lights (it is dangerous and creates an unfavorable stigma.)
For me, it is irrefutable considering my experience. They don't care
Personally, as a driver, I can wait anytime I feel the need. Even pull to the side and wait for traffic to clear. 'Matter of fact, I carry a PSP in my car for just such occaisions. It makes 10 minutes seem like 10 seconds when I want to just chill and wait for traffic. Or bikes. Final Fantasy Tactics can get my attention with out hesitation. 'Got a nice sound system as well.
Perhaps driving culture is somewhat different in the US to the UK? Round here I would say that courteous sensible drivers are probably closer to 80% or higher on a bike, and 95% in a car...
Of course I live in a town with a population of 60,000 rather than a city, Ive got friends who moved down from london and couldnt believe that people would regularly stop to let people out etc. I find genuinely bad driving to be a minority thing here, although a general short sightedness when driving is probably present in the majority.0 -
I must admit I don't have nearly such a dire view of my fellow humans as bikers. Sorry mate!
I've found that most motorists are more careful towards cyclists than they are towards other drivers. Not much, and not as much as we would like, but it's easy to see when you drive somewhere and realise quite how shitty drivers can be to each other.0 -
BentMikey wrote:I must admit I don't have nearly such a dire view of my fellow humans as bikers. Sorry mate!
I've found that most motorists are more careful towards cyclists than they are towards other drivers. Not much, and not as much as we would like, but it's easy to see when you drive somewhere and realise quite how shitty drivers can be to each other.
I would have to agree that the majority of drivers are curtious to cyclists when they see them, the rest are just downright ignorant AND dangerous.
This thread started with observations about how drivers act...the problem to me is that drivers are not careful enough...a lot seem to think that their responsibilty ends with not hitting someone themselves...it's everyone elses job to avoid them. I have many examples every single day where drivers pull off stupid maneouvers because they have glanced and thought nothing was coming, or saw someone and thought "well the'll just have to stop to avoid me won't they!"
They are the dangerous ones...in my opinion.
Oh and the whle curteousness thing...that's just a symptom of life...people are less curteous as a rule...not just when driving.0 -
Agreed, there are perhaps 5% who are aggressive or simply don't care, 5% who are clearly utterly incompetent. Although all of us make mistakes.
What does concern me is that there are a large number who I don't think understand how to deal with cyclists (particularly when it comes to passing on narrow roads), or seem unable to register their presence (which is perhaps an education thing rather than inate competence). I also note, as a reasonably rapid club cyclist, that many seem incapable of realising that I actually am going a lot faster than 10mph (so they shouldn't be thinking they have time to pull out of that side road).
For every motorist who endangers me (three in particular on my commute yesterday) there are several who seem to go to great efforts to give me plenty of space or wait for me to pass parked cars. Yes, they should, but it is good when they seem a bit "beyond the call of duty".0 -
Whatever you think works. I know what I've seen and been treated like.
I'm gone.0
