The Team PR machines
Which teams are worst? I vote for Slipstream no 1, with CSC 2nd overall.
Disco is gone in a month. Astana started yet? Well...
the CSC team building stuff seems like a load of bollocks to me e.g. CSC survives Norwegian blizzard...team building eh. Even Yates thought it was dodgy. All this team spirit guff Riis and the others at CSC explained their expeditions as being...and we saw who basso put first when it came to it. Millar trashed the Saunier wind tunnel testing of last winter during the Slipstream prez...and nobody noted the Floyd Landis entourage...everyone staying on message.
I put Slipstream number 1 cause of their attempt as appearing new and deep...e.g. letting velonews or whichever journo know they did psychological testing on the team...hardly real tests are they? they would never make the riders take real tests with media access like DSM-IV-TR criteria- (VDB and Pantani red flagged in this test) , but then the danger to Slipstream team PR would be we'd maybe learn a few of them show up narrsistic personality disorders too given the average number per 25 athletes
20 years of reading of team presentations etc has left me cynical.
Disco is gone in a month. Astana started yet? Well...
the CSC team building stuff seems like a load of bollocks to me e.g. CSC survives Norwegian blizzard...team building eh. Even Yates thought it was dodgy. All this team spirit guff Riis and the others at CSC explained their expeditions as being...and we saw who basso put first when it came to it. Millar trashed the Saunier wind tunnel testing of last winter during the Slipstream prez...and nobody noted the Floyd Landis entourage...everyone staying on message.
I put Slipstream number 1 cause of their attempt as appearing new and deep...e.g. letting velonews or whichever journo know they did psychological testing on the team...hardly real tests are they? they would never make the riders take real tests with media access like DSM-IV-TR criteria- (VDB and Pantani red flagged in this test) , but then the danger to Slipstream team PR would be we'd maybe learn a few of them show up narrsistic personality disorders too given the average number per 25 athletes
20 years of reading of team presentations etc has left me cynical.
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Comments
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All part of the show.0
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vermooten wrote:All part of the show.
True, it is a show...with the actors all given the same script before the start...but who is taken in by it?...we all know the riders are being told to sing from the same hymn sheet...as Millar shows a year on discrediting Saunier wind tunnel tests, as Yates did on CSC on leaving...Slipstream seemed the most coached team in this respect. Millar was over the top in his praise of Slipstream0 -
It's difficult to tell. Because Slipstream and CSC are both American teams they definately appear in the English language media more often.
Perhaps Italian teams are equally as bad if you can read Italian?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Dave_1 wrote:Millar was over the top in his praise of Slipstream
He's a part owner so it's to be expected I'd say.
Forgot that...but you get my gist, these personality tests are an attempt to make Slisptream novel...when infact it's shallow PR as are the Bjarne Riis army camps-another way to talk about how great a team and all for one and one for all mentality blah blah...we know the riders private views on that team propaganda-they are in it for themselves only0 -
Dave_1 wrote:iainf72 wrote:Dave_1 wrote:Millar was over the top in his praise of Slipstream
He's a part owner so it's to be expected I'd say.
Forgot that...but you get my gist, these personality tests are an attempt to make Slisptream novel...when infact it's shallow PR as are the Bjarne Riis army camps-another way to talk about how great a team and all for one and one for all mentality blah blah...we know the riders private views on that team propaganda-they are in it for themselves only
Don't be daft they all work their b@llocks off purely for our entertainment.0 -
iainf72 wrote:It's difficult to tell. Because Slipstream and CSC are both American teams they definately appear in the English language media more often.
CSC is a Danish team, although the title sponsor (Computer Sciences Corporation) is based in California.
8)"It\'s curtains for Karpets!" - David Duffield0 -
Not Eddy Merckx wrote:CSC is a Danish team, although the title sponsor (Computer Sciences Corporation) is based in California.
8)
Sure sure, carry on believing that :P
The team used to be funded by the Danish arm of CSC but I beleive the money all comes from the US now.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Not Eddy Merckx wrote:CSC is a Danish team, although the title sponsor (Computer Sciences Corporation) is based in California.
8)
Sure sure, carry on believing that :P
The team used to be funded by the Danish arm of CSC but I beleive the money all comes from the US now.
Last night I predicted what the PR script would be for the CSC riders and sure enough Sastre repeats the words I predicted they would use to describe the Norwegian blizzard expedition as last night...a one for all, all for one exercise...as if CSC riders are immune from the sickness a lot of oither teams suffer from e.g....pathological types like Kashekin, A.Vinokourov, Basso, Ullrich, Heras and the others...all of who will risk the entire teams sponsor and jobs for a grand tour win. Anyone, CSC and Slipstream included are only made up of human beings and no team building boot camp or sham psychology tests to repackage the product will make me believe otherwise
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... dec04news20 -
Don't read it Dave. That's what I do. You'll have a longer and happier life
It's not fair to single out cycling. Profesional sport as a whole is absolutely in thrall to the mealy mouthed PR circus because they're sh1t scared that if anything 'real' ever comes out iof the mouth of an athlete, sponsors will run a mile. In fact, the riders' pronouncements as reported by CN are far more real than anything you'll ever get from a rugby or football player (without a fat book & paper serialisation deal to push).___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
calvjones wrote:Don't read it Dave. That's what I do. You'll have a longer and happier life
It's not fair to single out cycling. Profesional sport as a whole is absolutely in thrall to the mealy mouthed PR circus because they're sh1t scared that if anything 'real' ever comes out iof the mouth of an athlete, sponsors will run a mile. In fact, the riders' pronouncements as reported by CN are far more real than anything you'll ever get from a rugby or football player (without a fat book & paper serialisation deal to push).
True Calv, I will try to avoid the propaganda pumped out by such teams...Disco was bad...but mostly they hyped riders like Hincapie or said they exercised "a zero tolerance" policy on doping...then sign Basso. I rate Slipstream worst. No doubt we will have more team presenatations this winter...but who will beat Slipstream and CSC?0 -
Dave_1 wrote:they would never make the riders take real tests with media access like DSM-IV-TR criteria- (VDB and Pantani red flagged in this test) , but then the danger to Slipstream team PR would be we'd maybe learn a few of them show up narrsistic personality disorders too given the average number per 25 athletes
Sorry, this is a bit OT, but which DSM-IV-TR criteria were failed? Mental health is my field & this comment both perplexes & intrigues me... (DSM-IV-TR (Diagnostic Statistical Manual-4-Text Revision) is just hundreds & hundreds of diagnostic criteria for mental health issues & personality disorders)). Have you got a link to the source so I can read rather than ask you lots of questions? IME, these sorts of stories are more than a little bit dodgy...
Cheers!
Back to the topic under discussion & sorry for my meanderings...0 -
Richrd2205 wrote:Dave_1 wrote:they would never make the riders take real tests with media access like DSM-IV-TR criteria- (VDB and Pantani red flagged in this test) , but then the danger to Slipstream team PR would be we'd maybe learn a few of them show up narrsistic personality disorders too given the average number per 25 athletes
Sorry, this is a bit OT, but which DSM-IV-TR criteria were failed? Mental health is my field & this comment both perplexes & intrigues me... (DSM-IV-TR (Diagnostic Statistical Manual-4-Text Revision) is just hundreds & hundreds of diagnostic criteria for mental health issues & personality disorders)). Have you got a link to the source so I can read rather than ask you lots of questions? IME, these sorts of stories are more than a little bit dodgy...
Cheers!
Back to the topic under discussion & sorry for my meanderings...
I'd read a bit about Pantani's score on DSM-IV-TR when he was being given treatment for his substance problems. It's in Matt Rendell's book, I remember. Also, I recall that during the court cases of Frank Vandenbrouke the judge had order background-evaluation of his mental state and the report back to the court was that they found him narrsistic, cer,he had some aspect of personality disorder. Possible DSM IV? I think many elite sportsmen are quite sick in some ways, also talented..and when the combination of the 2 you get a troubled sports hero. There's a PHd in it I think. Make 25 people from the general popualtion take personality disorder tests and you will find some score borderline or personality disorder? No? Not OT IMO...make all pro team riders take these tests, kept confidential and then the DS, managers will know who is well and not, in need of support0 -
Cheers for this Dave_1! I've been meaning to get round to reading Matt Rendell's book & I now have a further motivation & a reminder.
The background report for the court probably found some elements of narcissistic PD, but I'll google it to find more.
I think you're right that there's a number of elite athletes with issues & cycling's no short of them. I might leave the PhD to someone else tho!
Thanks for getting back so quickly & sorry to take the thread OT.0 -
Richrd2205 wrote:Cheers for this Dave_1! I've been meaning to get round to reading Matt Rendell's book & I now have a further motivation & a reminder.
The background report for the court probably found some elements of narcissistic PD, but I'll google it to find more.
I think you're right that there's a number of elite athletes with issues & cycling's no short of them. I might leave the PhD to someone else tho!
Thanks for getting back so quickly & sorry to take the thread OT.
No probs Richard. The Pantani book makes very interesting reading, possible more than Flying Scotsman even..though it was an excellent book in a different way0 -
Dave_1 wrote:Richrd2205 wrote:Cheers for this Dave_1! I've been meaning to get round to reading Matt Rendell's book & I now have a further motivation & a reminder.
The background report for the court probably found some elements of narcissistic PD, but I'll google it to find more.
I think you're right that there's a number of elite athletes with issues & cycling's no short of them. I might leave the PhD to someone else tho!
Thanks for getting back so quickly & sorry to take the thread OT.
No probs Richard. The Pantani book makes very interesting reading, possible more than Flying Scotsman even..though it was an excellent book in a different way
Rendell's book is first class but DEFINITELY not Christmas Day fare...
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Strava is not Zen.0 -
I loved that part of the Pantani book, the search for answers on why his mind worked in the way that it did.
A lot of riders are rumoured to have or have had mental issues.
As a post above says, it is fascinating.0 -
jimmythecuckoo wrote:I loved that part of the Pantani book, the search for answers on why his mind worked in the way that it did.
A lot of riders are rumoured to have or have had mental issues.
As a post above says, it is fascinating.
The most interesting part of Rendell's book I found was how he-Pantani that is- eluded psychiatrists questions...their attempts to find out who he actually was under the mask of climber/ pro cyclists hero he wore...was fetted for, encouraged to wear in public-part of his downfall I am sure..it was commented on that he, when being interviewed by psychiatrists would speak as though he was being interviewed on television, relatively shallow Tv persona answers -e.g. not his real self..but media image... Anyone of that level of substance abuse is avoiding something about themself. Marco Pantani could and should have been saved0
