Drug Cheaton BBC Sports Personality of the Year Shortlist

spen666

Makes a total mockery of the award in my humble opinion

The BBC has been criticised for including controversial athlete Christine Ohuruogu on the shortlist for Sports Personality of the Year.

Miss Ohuruogu, who served a 12-month ban after missing three drug tests, is among ten vying for the prize.

But the decision to include her alongside names such as Formula One's Lewis Hamilton and tennis player Andy Murray has provoked anger.

The 400 metres star is one of two athletes on the shortlist, along with Paula Radcliffe.

But there are no footballers included - after a dismal year for the England team.

The other candidates are boxers Joe Calzaghe and Ricky Hatton, England rugby duo Jason Robinson and Jonny Wilkinson, golfer Justin Rose and superbikes star James Toseland.

Miss Ohuruogu, 23, who took gold in this year's World Championships, came under the spotlight after missing the three drug tests outside competition.

The British Olympic Association imposed a lifetime ban from competing in the Games, but overturned it this week.

Earlier this year, a Court of Arbitration refused to overturn a separate year-long ban imposed by UK Athletics, but said there was no hint that she had cheated and she blamed forgetfulness.

The athlete last week insisted she is "not a drugs cheat" and warned other athletes to avoid complacency over missing tests.

Many have argued that the point of draconian punishments for missing tests is to stop cheating athletes hiding behind claims of forgetfulness.

Tory MP David Davies said: "This is a very poor example for young people that might want to get into sport.

"It beggars belief that someone that has been banned for this is now on the shortlist for Sports Personality of the Year."

A BBC spokesman said the shortlist was decided by 30 sports editors from newspapers and magazines and the BBC Sports Personality of the Year 12-man panel.

The event takes place in Birmingham next Sunday, December 9, and is on BBC1 from 7pm.

Dave Cornwall

If only Micheal Rassmussen had told them that he had forgotten which country he was in!

flattythehurdler

I absolutely agree. I couldn't believe it when i saw her on the advert.

NlEDERMEYER

It beggars belief. Agree with spen (shock horror)

NFMC

Disagree entirely.

She is not a 'drugs cheat'.

She's never been caught cheating once. She was banned under the rules for missing three tests (and there's a big debate about how reasonable the procedures were together with how feasible it was that she missed the appointments) and then returned and won the world championships.

In the meantime she was tested regularly and never came back with anything remotely dodgy.

All the time she quietly got on with her training and punishment and then appealed against the lifetime Olympic ban using the precedents set by two similarly affected athletes.

Having said all that, I'd vote for Ricky Hatton (or Victoria Pendleton, if I could...hmmmm).

nickwill

NFMC wrote:

Disagree entirely.

She is not a 'drugs cheat'.

She's never been caught cheating once. She was banned under the rules for missing three tests (and there's a big debate about how reasonable the procedures were together with how feasible it was that she missed the appointments) and then returned and won the world championships.

In the meantime she was tested regularly and never came back with anything remotely dodgy.

All the time she quietly got on with her training and punishment and then appealed against the lifetime Olympic ban using the precedents set by two similarly affected athletes.

Having said all that, I'd vote for Ricky Hatton (or Victoria Pendleton, if I could...hmmmm).

So was it unfair for Rasmussen to be thrown off the tour?

NFMC

Not at all...he was booted off his team for (supposedly) lying about his whereabouts when he was due to be tested.

Christine Ohuruogo was punished for her forgetfullness/avoidance/call it what you will and has now returned to competition.

She's been included in the top-ten because she won the world championship in the 400m. That, to me, is enough to get her on the list. Then it's up to people to vote for her. I doubt very much she'll win, but then I would have doubted if she'd have won if she'd never been involved in the missed test business.

nickwill

As far as I'm concerned, she broke the rules, and , as far as I know, 3 missed tests are the equivalent of a failed drugs test. To miss one is careless, to miss two arouses suspicion, and missing three should result in a ban. Imagine what would be said if she were a cyclist.

Rob Sallnow

spen666 wrote:

Makes a total mockery of the award in my humble opinion

Usually when someone posts something inaccurate you are the first to jump down their throats with you pretentious, holier than thou twaddle....especially when it's to do with your apparent pet subject of legal mumbo jumbo.

What a surprise to see the opening post was written by you of all people.

Christine is not a drugs cheat.

What makes a mockery of the competition is that it is usually awarded to plucky runners-up rather than people that have won something....I feel pretty sure that this year it will be won by a very plucky runner up....and an undisputed world champion will be second.

Dave Cornwall

Of course she's not a cheat, she just forgot to turn up. And you are right, she has never tested positive for anything. Mind you, a lot of "innocents" have claimed that.

Perhaps somebody should ask her outright if she has ever taken anything, I would be interested to hear the reply. Would it be,

"I've never taken drugs" or the standard "I've never been tested positive"

I think the difference is that it seems that at long last, cycling really does want to clean up it's act, and be seen to doing it. Whilst athletics perhaps doesn't really have the same attitude yet.

It's unfortunate for Ohruogo because I'm sure she probably is innocent, but until they bring in a zero tolerance attitude and don't make allowances for supposidly poor memories, they'll never get on the road to getting the cheats out. I know it would have been hard on her, but it would have set an example and perhaps deter somebody else who is doing something wrong.

Anonymous

Dave Cornwall wrote:

Of course she's not a cheat, she just forgot to turn up. And you are right, she has never tested positive for anything. Mind you, a lot of "innocents" have claimed that.

Perhaps somebody should ask her outright if she has ever taken anything, I would be interested to hear the reply. Would it be,

"I've never taken drugs" or the standard "I've never been tested positive"

I think the difference is that it seems that at long last, cycling really does want to clean up it's act, and be seen to doing it. Whilst athletics perhaps doesn't really have the same attitude yet.

It's unfortunate for Ohruogo because I'm sure she probably is innocent, but until they bring in a zero tolerance attitude and don't make allowances for supposidly poor memories, they'll never get on the road to getting the cheats out. I know it would have been hard on her, but it would have set an example and perhaps deter somebody else who is doing something wrong.

:roll:

petejuk

NFMC wrote:

Christine Ohuruogo was punished for her forgetfullness/avoidance/call it what you will and has now returned to competition.

She's been included in the top-ten because she won the world championship in the 400m. That, to me, is enough to get her on the list. Then it's up to people to vote for her. I doubt very much she'll win, but then I would have doubted if she'd have won if she'd never been involved in the missed test business.

What amazes me about this is that these people are supposedly top class athletes. This means that they have top quality training programmes with coaches, staff and other people in support of them. They stick to their calorie counted diets and ensure they have a full night's sleep to ensure they're at the top of their game. I cannot fathom any top clean athlete would miss any drugs test, especially if would pedjudice their chances in competing in races they spend their whole life building up for.
To make any suggestion that missing a drugs test on one occasion was down to forgetfulness is naive. To suggest that this happened 3 times is nonsense.
Sorry, but winning the world championship in whatever sport is not enough if you cannot meet the criteria of being a modern professional athlete. ie, following basic rules.

Salsiccia

Rob Sallnow wrote:

Christine is not a drugs cheat.

How do we know that though? If she had showed up for the tests would they all have been negative? We'll never know. And because of that, anything she acheives is tarnished IMHO.

Rob Sallnow wrote:

What makes a mockery of the competition is that it is usually awarded to plucky runners-up rather than people that have won something....I feel pretty sure that this year it will be won by a very plucky runner up....and an undisputed world champion will be second.

How about a three-time world champion this year not making the shortlist? THAT is making a mockery of it.

Rob Sallnow

petejuk wrote:

I cannot fathom any top clean athlete would miss any drugs test, especially if would pedjudice their chances in competing in races they spend their whole life building up for.
To make any suggestion that missing a drugs test on one occasion was down to forgetfulness is naive. To suggest that this happened 3 times is nonsense.
Sorry, but winning the world championship in whatever sport is not enough if you cannot meet the criteria of being a modern professional athlete. ie, following basic rules.

I think it's more like you being naive if you think athletes spend the whole of their lives building up for races and should have nothing on their mind but drugs tests.....they train like 'normal' people go to work and sometimes normal people oversleep or forget they have a dentist appointment at lunch time, or double book themselves for things, or breakdown or get stuck in traffic without their phone or no credit on it. Added to this it's not like you are definately meeting a drug testing official every time.....if you were then you would pull out all the stops if you broke down for example....you would get a no-expense-spared taxi straight to where you were supposed to be but I suspect that if you do this for a living you would realize that the chances are you are not the chosen one that day and so it's not so life and death.

Rob Sallnow

Salsiccia wrote:

Rob Sallnow wrote:

Christine is not a drugs cheat.

How do we know that though? If she had showed up for the tests would they all have been negative? We'll never know. And because of that, anything she acheives is tarnished IMHO.

A drugs cheat is someone who has failed a drugs test or has been discovered to be using drugs...by a spouse or training partner for example. Even though Christine has been banned for missing some tests....for whatever reason...and been banned she is still not a drugs cheat and Spen can't call her such unless he knows she has taken drugs.

Spen should know better than to title a thread using such words...his whole C+ and BR posting career is full of jumping down the throats of people that post things in Soapbox that are not 100% factually/legally accurate, he should know better.

petejuk

[quote="Rob Sallnow"

I think it's more like you being naive if you think athletes spend the whole of their lives building up for races and should have nothing on their mind but drugs tests.....they train like 'normal' people go to work and sometimes normal people oversleep or forget they have a dentist appointment at lunch time, or double book themselves for things, or breakdown or get stuck in traffic without their phone or no credit on it. Added to this it's not like you are definately meeting a drug testing official every time.....if you were then you would pull out all the stops if you broke down for example....you would get a no-expense-spared taxi straight to where you were supposed to be but I suspect that if you do this for a living you would realize that the chances are you are not the chosen one that day and so it's not so life and death.[/quote]

Lets set some things straight. Firstly, they do not train like 'normal' people. If that was the case, we'd all be racing at the same level as them. Elite athletes are at elite level because they invest a massive amount of time, effort and expertise (not to mention money) into training to win races. It would be niave to suggest that top athletes are just born that way and require no different an approach to training than the rest of us.
Furthermore, you seem to argue that human error and factors beyond their control could account for an athlete missing a drugs test. I don't disagree that any of the examples you gave could excuse an athlete on one occasion. But to miss three? Get real.
But then you argue that it shouldn't matter because you are not meeting a drug testing official every time and that chances are you're not the chosen one that day. What nonsense. It makes absolutely no difference who you meet at the other end- if the requirements are to turn up like you're going to be tested then thats what should happen even if the only person to log your name at the other end is the janitor. The importance is, as an athlete you are clean and are available to prove it when required.
Lets put this in the perspective of 'normal' people for a moment. If you, say, worked for a company that was developing a product and your boss had tasked you, over the research and development period, to take this product to a number of different places to be tested, you wouldn't ignore his direction and forgot you had a dentist appointment/ miss the bus/ oversleep/ have a breakdown and have no credit on your phone on three separate occasions would you? Of course you wouldn't because you'd be sacked. Its no wonder then that this sports personality nomination has caused a bit of a stir. My view is that it doesn't matter how good she is an athlete, her performances will always be viewed with an air of uncertainty and suspicion.

cougie

I'm not sure of her reasons for missing the drugs tests, but I've seen Tim Dons for missing his and they seem pretty reasonable. I believe as a result of his situation they have changed the process - so if you are running two mins late or whatever - you can call the testing body to let them know - they'll stay and no missed test.

These athletes do have a lot of stresses on them - training, competing, travelling, normal stuff on top of that too - so its not like all they do is train.

spen666

Rob Sallnow wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Makes a total mockery of the award in my humble opinion

Usually when someone posts something inaccurate you are the first to jump down their throats with you pretentious, holier than thou twaddle....especially when it's to do with your apparent pet subject of legal mumbo jumbo.

What a surprise to see the opening post was written by you of all people.

Christine is not a drugs cheat.

What makes a mockery of the competition is that it is usually awarded to plucky runners-up rather than people that have won something....I feel pretty sure that this year it will be won by a very plucky runner up....and an undisputed world champion will be second.

Rob, calm down and read carefully what I posted.

I NEVER said she had taken any drugs. I never said she had tested positive. She is however a drugs cheat as she breached the rules on testing for drugs.

spen666

Rob Sallnow wrote:

Salsiccia wrote:

Rob Sallnow wrote:

Christine is not a drugs cheat.

How do we know that though? If she had showed up for the tests would they all have been negative? We'll never know. And because of that, anything she acheives is tarnished IMHO.

A drugs cheat is someone who has failed a drugs test or has been discovered to be using drugs...by a spouse or training partner for example. Even though Christine has been banned for missing some tests....for whatever reason...and been banned she is still not a drugs cheat and Spen can't call her such unless he knows she has taken drugs.

Spen should know better than to title a thread using such words...his whole C+ and BR posting career is full of jumping down the throats of people that post things in Soapbox that are not 100% factually/legally accurate, he should know better.

Rob you may define a drugs cheat in the way you put in your post. I don't and many others don't either. She breached the rules on drug testing. That is a fact. That is sufficient IMHO to make her a drugs cheat


You repeatedly seem to think I am saying she has taken illegal drugs ( or even legal ones). I have never said such a thing. Try reading wehat is written and not inserting into my posts, comments which arenot there.

I am happy to repeat the title. She is a drugs cheat. She breached the rules regarding drugs in sport by failing to take drugs tests.

mercsport

I'm afraid I'm with 'Spen666' on this one . There appear to be a few naive people around on this thread re. what constitutes a drugs cheat .
My holiday reading this year was " The Death of Marco Pantani " by Matt Rendell ( followed up with Paul Kimmage's " Rough Ride " ) . 'Strewth !! :shock: I can't quote chapter and verse as I lent those books out ( they never get returned do they ? ) but I was impressed by the scholarship of Rendell's book and the fact that even minutes can count in masking doping . Pantani missed a few tests , failed a couple and - just like Lance - passed lots , but , in summation , Rendell thought that Pantani from his early teens upto his overdose and death from coke was full of the stuff ( substances , or altered physical chemistry that is ) every minute of his waking existence .
The relevant chapters on modern doping would make sceptics of any believer in the integrity of modern athletes .
I believe that cycling's doing a good job in cleaning up , but a glance at these pumped up athletes like Linford Christie ( now history ) and his ilk , or the wonderfully forgetful Christine O delight me with their sheer brassneck .
Yes , in the patois of the moment , " Get Real ! "