Spelling/ Grammar

spen666

Let me start by admitting my spelling or use of grammar isn't good and I regularly make howlers.

I observe by reading on here and other forums/ message boards that it seems that the standard of written English is very poor.

Is this because people are less conscientious about checking their work before posting it? (How many people bother to read over what they have typed before hitting the post button?)

Is this because people do not know how to spell or use grammar correctly? (The average age of the people posting on here is over the school leaving age- so if it is a lack of knowledge; it is due to past education failures not current ones)

Any other reasons?

stevechambers34

Sometimes life's just too short to bother, probably?

redddraggon

I don't think that it's massively important to spell and grammar check before posting unless you know you are going to make some pretty big errors.

In the end it's only a forum, and as long as txt spk isn't used it's not a big deal.

ContrelaMontre

My spelling and grammar is exemplary!

I have the help of Mozilla in line spell checker, which generally eliminates typos.

Special K

wot y arxing me bruv? umlike tortly scriblin da max, innit

ChrisLS

Special K wrote:

wot y arxing me bruv? umlike tortly scriblin da max, innit

Crapaud

redddraggon wrote:

I don't think that it's massively important to spell and grammar check before posting unless you know you are going to make some pretty big errors.

In the end it's only a forum, and as long as txt spk isn't used it's not a big deal.

It's not the end of the world to have the odd mistake, but the whole point of posting is to communicate, so it is important, IMO. Poor or non-existant grammar can make it a chore, at best, to decypher what a poster is trying to say. At times it's so difficult or impossible to interpret a post that I end out ignoring it, and sometimes the thread. It may just be my perception, but there have been more than a few 'flame wars' (is that the right term?) because of poor sentence structure, grammar and / or choice of vocabulary.

For myself, I believe that if it's worth taking the time to post, it's worth making the effort to try to make sure that it's readable, clear and relevant, and take the time to read my posts - and make corrections - before submitting them.

spen666 wrote:

Any other reasons?

Possibly:
Some people don't have any reason to use the written word after leaving education and any skills they had atrophy.

A majority of people read tabloids, and tabloid style magazines, that are undemanding of the reader. I was told, many years ago, by an english teacher that they have a reading age of 9.

NFMC

I agree. If nothing else it's good manners to the other people - with whom you may disagree - to take a bit of time to try and communicate properly.

One of my responsibilities is to manage internal communications for quite a big business and I have to edit the writing of some very senior people (usually earning well into six figures). It's not just a case of the 'younger generation' or a 'recent decline in school standards'!

***re-reads message three times before posting***

on the road

It's only a forum, it's not as if we're applying for a high profile job or something.

Anonymous

spen666 wrote:

Let me start by admitting my spelling or use of grammar isn't good and I regularly make howlers.

I observe by reading on here and other forums/ message boards that it seems that the standard of written English is very poor.

Is this because people are less conscientious about checking their work before posting it? (How many people bother to read over what they have typed before hitting the post button?)

Is this because people do not know how to spell or use grammar correctly? (The average age of the people posting on here is over the school leaving age- so if it is a lack of knowledge; it is due to past education failures not current ones)

Any other reasons?

Don't you know how to spell atrocious?

spen666

Crapaud wrote:

...It's not the end of the world to have the odd mistake, but the whole point of posting is to communicate, so it is important, IMO. Poor or non-existant grammar can make it a chore, at best, to decypher what a poster is trying to say. At times it's so difficult or impossible to interpret a post that I end out ignoring it, and sometimes the thread. It may just be my perception, but there have been more than a few 'flame wars' (is that the right term?) because of poor sentence structure, grammar and / or choice of vocabulary.
....

I am inclined to agree with this view.

Both on here and on other forums/ message boards, some posts are so difficult to understand.

Is the lack of care/ effort people make just another example of the lack of consideration people give to others these days in all walks of life?

windyphil

Crapaud wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

At times it's so difficult or impossible to interpret a post that I end out ignoring it,

shouldn't that be 'end up ignoring it'? :roll:

dennisn

As I understand it this forum has a spell check. If this is true could someone tell my
computer dead mind how to use It.

Thanx,

Dennis Noward

windyphil

my mate has spellchecker on his computer, but he's dyslexic so can't decide which option to choose!

mr_hippo

"It's only a forum so it does not matter!" What a weak, pathetic excuse.
"I was in a rush!" Well you took your time to write your drivel, how much longer would it have taken you to spell-check? We maybe in a rush as well and do not have the time to interpret your post.
"But you know what I mean!" Maybe but if it is in mangled English, it may have many meanings.
Be careful with homonyms - words that sound the same but have different spellings and meanings. For example 'break levers', do you mean brake levers that help us to stop or are you giving us instructions to break levers? What should we break them with and why?
You may be intelligent but if your posting is mangled, you may come across as low class and uneducated and therefore your opinion is worthless.

Crapaud

windyphil wrote:

Crapaud wrote:

At times it's so difficult or impossible to interpret a post that I end out ignoring it,

Shouldn't that be 'end up ignoring it'? :roll:

There, that's much better! (I'm fairly sure that that quote's one of mine.) :roll: :roll:

Now, what were you saying? Ah, yes. 'End up' or 'end out'? 'End up' is probably correct, 'though I've heard 'end up' used in the same manner. I'm not sure whether there's a right or wrong on this one, but it doesn't make the post, or the sentence, obscure, so I decided to leave it.

It's common on these type of threads for the 'spelling / grammar isn't important' advocates to pick apart the posts of the pro lobby. I didn't expect that to be picked up though; I thought there were better candidates.

dennisn wrote:

As I understand it this forum has a spell check. If this is true could someone tell my
computer dead mind how to use It.

No, not that I can see anyway. I'm sure I read that there's one in the pipeline.

on the road wrote:

It's only a forum, it's not as if we're applying for a high profile job or something.

On all the treads that I've read on this topic I've not seen one that attempts to explain or justify this attitude!

spen666

Crapaud wrote:

....On all the treads that I've read on this topic I've not seen one that attempts to explain or justify this attitude!

Who contributors have treads on their posts? do the majority use slicks?

on the road

Crapaud wrote:

on the road wrote:

It's only a forum, it's not as if we're applying for a high profile job or something.

On all the treads that I've read on this topic I've not seen one that attempts to explain or justify this attitude!

What attitude is that?

Crapaud

on the road wrote:

Crapaud wrote:

on the road wrote:

It's only a forum, it's not as if we're applying for a high profile job or something.

On all the treads that I've read on this topic I've not seen one that attempts to explain or justify this attitude!

What attitude is that?

That spelling and grammar aren't important because "it's only a forum". Replace it with 'opinion' or 'belief' if you like. If it's not important - why?

spen666 wrote:

Crapaud wrote:

....On all the treads that I've read on this topic I've not seen one that attempts to explain or justify this attitude!

Who contributors have treads on their posts? do the majority use slicks?

Oops! :oops: and:

spen666 wrote:

Which contributors have treads on their posts? Do the majority use slicks?

:?:

on the road

Crapaud wrote:

on the road wrote:

Crapaud wrote:

on the road wrote:

It's only a forum, it's not as if we're applying for a high profile job or something.

On all the treads that I've read on this topic I've not seen one that attempts to explain or justify this attitude!

What attitude is that?

That spelling and grammar aren't important because "it's only a forum". Replace it with 'opinion' or 'belief' if you like. If it's not important - why?

OK!

IN MY OPINION, it's only a forum, it's not as if we're applying for a high profile job or something.

Is that better

IN MY OPINION, what does it matter if there's the odd misspelling or the odd missed comma? Does it really matter?

You shouldn't really get your knickers in a twist, there's more importing things in life to worry about then the odd misspelling or whatever.

OffTheBackAdam

At least we don't seem to suffer from the "l33t" speakers and those who use text speak when writing anything!
I inhabit a wargaming forum, it's quite amusing when the product of our fine UK education system is being taken to task about their poor spelling, grammar and punctuation by someone from Romania!
We all miss the odd punctuation mark, I get "fat-finger" syndrome and hit two keys together at times, but I usually pick it up when I re-read my post before hitting the submit button.
l8r m8s

mr_hippo

Are Spen & I complaining about the odd typo? No, we are not! How important is it to write clear English? First of all if you cannot be bothered to write properly then we cannot be bothered to read it. You may have raised an important point or given us a valuable piece of advice but because we cannot read it, we just ignore it!
There's a thing called 'pride in your work' - I always try to do my best, do you?
It prevents misunderstanding - if you write 'break hydraulic line' are you describing a part or giving an instruction?

Anonymous

You shouldn't really get your knickers in a twist,

Who's knickers are twisted? Check the closest mirror for the answer.

You guys are getting way too serious.
I'm with the grammer, punctuation, spelling, indices, etc., but chill people.
I usually skip the hard to read (because of the aforementioned inadequacies also) posts, but who cares. Just skip what is too hard to read. No one comes up short aside from the one who cannot get it right.
Geez, now I'm doing it.
'Nite all, I'm going to go snuggle my lovely wife.
8) 8) 8)

Jon G

spen666 wrote:

I observe by reading on here and other forums/ message boards that it seems that the standard of written English is very poor.

Is this because people are less conscientious about checking their work before posting it? (How many people bother to read over what they have typed before hitting the post button?)

Is this because people do not know how to spell or use grammar correctly? (The average age of the people posting on here is over the school leaving age- so if it is a lack of knowledge; it is due to past education failures not current ones)

Any other reasons?

One possible reason is that, because forum posts tend to be short, they are often treated as being conversation rather than as writing. In English, spoken conversation is by convention much less formally structured than is written work. A person who structured their conversation according to the conventions normal in writing would seem odd, and may be described as "talking like a book". Forum posts are often structured according to the conventions used in informal spoken discourse, which may offend those who take the view that they should be structured according to the conventions usually applied to writing. As with every aspect of English usage, consensus is the nearest there is to definitive authority, and no consensus has yet developed concerning usage in fora.

It would be interesting to know what happens in fora using languages where the written and spoken forms are less different than they are in English.

Jon

Anonymous

spen666 wrote:

Crapaud wrote:

....On all the treads that I've read on this topic I've not seen one that attempts to explain or justify this attitude!

Who contributors have treads on their posts? do the majority use slicks?

I take it this post is by way of a demonstration of that to which you allude to in the OP?

markyboy2005

mr_hippo wrote:

You may be intelligent but if your posting is mangled, you may come across as low class and uneducated and therefore your opinion is worthless.

Tally Ho!

Mark Alexander

It is one of my bugbares in life :twisted:

mr_hippo

whitley wrote:

I take it this post is by way of a demonstration of that to which you allude to in the OP?

There are also people who try to talk/write posh and fail miserably.

Anonymous

mr_hippo wrote:

whitley wrote:

I take it this post is by way of a demonstration of that to which you allude to in the OP?

There are also people who try to talk/write posh and fail miserably.

Which words are you having difficulty with?

mr_hippo

whitley wrote:

mr_hippo wrote:

whitley wrote:

I take it this post is by way of a demonstration of that to which you allude to in the OP?

There are also people who try to talk/write posh and fail miserably.

Which words are you having difficulty with?

Your sentence construction is convoluted and didn't anyone tell you that you should not end a sentence with a preposition?

Anonymous

mr_hippo wrote:

whitley wrote:

mr_hippo wrote:

whitley wrote:

I take it this post is by way of a demonstration of that to which you allude to in the OP?

There are also people who try to talk/write posh and fail miserably.

Which words are you having difficulty with?

Your sentence construction is convoluted and didn't anyone tell you that you should not end a sentence with a preposition?

Yes,my Latin teacher.
It's old hat and nonsense to assume a language based on German should follow the grammatical rules of an ancient language.
Incidentally the word 'with' in the context used is not a preposition.
Furthermore 'Non Gradus Anus Rodentum'