The White Rose Classic Sportive - Questions........

Matt Payne

In response to the many questions.....

As I am sure many of you are aware, as a sportive run using BC`s insurance & entry system all of the posts submitted by any of the organisers of The White Rose Classic do not stay on the cyclosport forum for long, indeed most of the organisers are simply removed from the forum. This is not the case for all sportives.

This makes it look like we are not answering riders questions, we are but unless you are quick to read the post it will be deleted before you ever read it!

All of the hundreds of riders who have entered online should have recieved an email confirmation, those few who have entered by post do not hesitate to get in touch but you will shortly receive confirmation of entry. Due to the loss of Derek Boocock to the sport after his treatment by a section of the on line community the website cannot be updated at the moment, all entries sent to Derek are already processed & will continue to be.

I do not believe that freedom of speech can take place on a forum that to quote the owner "is a commercial cycling site with a vested interest in its own future" henceforth I will not be posting on cyclosport forum, all forum posts will be here on bikeradar as all forum users are equal here & no one is dependant on the sale of their product over others to the point that editorial censorship takes place.

If we could all work together then the whole of cycle sport in the uk would benefit, but once again silly personal politics & commercial pressures seem to have got in the way.

Matthew Payne
Event Coordinator
The White Rose Classic

Bronzie

I can't believe Mark Harding is acting this way. That's just crazy what he's doing! :twisted:

Anonymous

I feel it a real shame a political dispute like this has seperated 2 great organisations, However if it can't be settled in a gentelmanly manner then its good we have another forum to address all parties. I've voted for a Sportive Section in this forum, I think it would publicy all events and organisations, the more advertisement the better for the sportifs(hopefully)

I'm doing 3 sportifs this year:- White Rose Classic, Dave Lloyd Mega Challenge and the new one form the organisers of the Autumn Epic - The Devil Ride.

But at least having a few forums then i'll be able to get info on all 3 sportives.

I really do hope all parties can get it all sorted out and can put aside any personal gains, the sportives IMO should be all about being part of a great experience, good camerarderie, A real self satisfying effort and maybe raising a few bob for any well worthy cause. Cycling in this wee island is so underrated and disregarded that its our job to make it more popular so it can gain more status so the last thing we need is for the few organisations which support the sport to have a dispute.

Matt Payne

I personally don`t get why this has happened in the first place, the only person that believes there is a dispute is Mark, just read Bob Howdens post in the thread on the race section of this site, I am just sorry for all the riders who are now not able to get answers to their questions etc on what was THE site for sportives.

What a sad day when one man `s belief that "they are out to get me" makes peoples enjoyment of their sport less & drives an organiser like Derek out of the sport at a time when Derek is at his most vunerable

Matt

ash68

thanks for the update Matt , we'll just have to come on here for updates on the WRC. Pity it has come to this, but so be it. I too voted for a sportive section on here so that we could all have a forum to speak freely about all sportive events regardless of which bodies are involved.Like we've said before, we can all do without the politics and the b****shit, lets just get on with riding our bikes and enjoying great events next year.

bobh

All comments by the organising team of both the White Rose Classic and Ryedale Rumble have now been removed from the Cyclosport.org forum. No discussion has been entered into with the Editor, it seems that he considers us ( BC Yorkshire ) a threat to the new commercial format of his site. Are we? It may not be common knowledge but all proceeds from these events go towards our aim of developing opportunities for our Youth Riders. Our Sportives todate have enabled us to set up the White Rose Youth League that now has a following of over 60 riders taking part weekly in competition and coaching within a safe environment. we are trying to do our bit to take kids off street corners and put them into worthwhile activity.

We are are using BC's online entry and insurance to offer what we feel is the best service to riders and yes BC is essentially a "not for profit "body so no get rich shemes as a hidden agenda there.

No individual takes any money out of these events. In fact in some notable cases it has cost them dear. Derek Boocock our WRC organiser and his wife Caroline are both cancer sufferers and in spite of that were willing to soldier on as the project was so close to them. Unfortunately the removal of their informative postings and the insults received has caused them to stand down. Yes the show goes on but Derek's enthusiasm will be greatly missed. We hope to persuade him to stay involved but right now is not the time, he has other more life threatening issues to attend to rather than the pettyness of the narrow minded.

Unless you were very quick you will have missed the postings on Cyclosport.org that said that the WRC rider lists will be uploaded onto the site soon and that the Ryedale Rumble site (www.ryedalerumble.co.uk) will go live with online and postal entries on the 15th December.

The Rumble follows the same spectacular North York Moors route as the last edition across the stunning scenery of Heartbeat land. There are however a few twists that will add to the difficulty making it a real corker and one not to be missed.

I can't sign off without saying that we are happy to talk to Mark Harding at Cyclosport at any time. We have no wish to see the demise of what was an excellent forum and a great service to Sportive riders. we can't do this however if he pulls the plug on all attempts to communicate.

Bob Howden
Organiser
Ryedale Rumble

nickwill

The above posts show why we need a separate sportive section for this forum. Sadly cyclosport can no longer be relied on to give us comprehensive information. We can only discuss those topics which are acceptable to the editor.
I was going to give the WRC a miss this year, as I rode (and enjoyed it), last year. However in the present circumstances, I wanted to give my full support to the organisers, so have signed up for it again.

Ken Night

Nickwill wrote:

The above posts show why we need a separate sportive section for this forum. Sadly cyclosport can no longer be relied on to give us comprehensive information. We can only discuss those topics which are acceptable to the editor.
.

Mark, are you reading this......? You really should look at some of the management training manuals and look for a win win result-as the organisers of WRC are

Nickwill wrote:

I was going to give the WRC a miss this year, as I rode (and enjoyed it), last year. However in the present circumstances, I wanted to give my full support to the organisers, so have signed up for it again.

Exactly how I feel too

ash68

think alot of people will feel like that Ken. I like the cyclosport website as it's full of good info on rides, but feel strongly that it should include all rides/organisers regardless of political rumblings.I'm riding the WRC for the first time this year and I'm sure it will be a great event. I'm also going to enter the Ryedale Rumble to show my support for these good folk. We need to support all organisers ,they give their time and expertese to put on great rides for us. I enjoy riding sportives and want to see as many on the calender as possible.Long live the WRC

Not David Millar

It isn't just the White Rose that has been treated this way. Think of the Etape Caledonia - every time someone tries to mention it the thread is deleted. The reason being that the organisation behind it is making a profit!!

Well I did the Etape Caledonia this year and at £49 was seen as expensive but when you consider the closed roads I think it is value for money, so much so that I have already entered for next years event.

This year I missed out on the White Rose so once entries came online I logged on and entered and will be looking forward to the event next year. It is also my intention to do the Ryedale Rumble as it doesn't clash with anything and it is local - so I know where all the steep bits are

nickwill

Not David Millar wrote:

It isn't just the White Rose that has been treated this way. Think of the Etape Caledonia - every time someone tries to mention it the thread is deleted. The reason being that the organisation behind it is making a profit!!

Well I did the Etape Caledonia this year and at £49 was seen as expensive but when you consider the closed roads I think it is value for money, so much so that I have already entered for next years event.

This year I missed out on the White Rose so once entries came online I logged on and entered and will be looking forward to the event next year. It is also my intention to do the Ryedale Rumble as it doesn't clash with anything and it is local - so I know where all the steep bits are

There seems to be some inconsistency at work as well, because AFAIK the Kiltogo events are profitmaking, and I'm not aware of threads being deleted which refer to them.
I'ts all very sad!

ledburyloafer

Nickwill wrote:

Not David Millar wrote:

It isn't just the White Rose that has been treated this way. Think of the Etape Caledonia - every time someone tries to mention it the thread is deleted. The reason being that the organisation behind it is making a profit!!

Well I did the Etape Caledonia this year and at £49 was seen as expensive but when you consider the closed roads I think it is value for money, so much so that I have already entered for next years event.

This year I missed out on the White Rose so once entries came online I logged on and entered and will be looking forward to the event next year. It is also my intention to do the Ryedale Rumble as it doesn't clash with anything and it is local - so I know where all the steep bits are

There seems to be some inconsistency at work as well, because AFAIK the Kiltogo events are profitmaking, and I'm not aware of threads being deleted which refer to them.
I'ts all very sad!

My understanding on the demise of the Etape Caledonia on that site, was because it was also promoted as race, with prizes. Or have I got that wrong?

bobh

The biggest irony is that both the WRC and Rumble return all proceeds to the grass roots development of the sport particularly youth activity. I've no wish to enter the debate of what should motivate organisers and good luck to those who want to and do indeed succeed in making a living out of it. The definition of "abuse" of a website policy could be interesting. Could it be for instance one of being the Region of British Cycling. certainly our own postings elsewhere were designed to identify the event to potential entrants but in content were apparently less blatant than some of the postings that seem to be currently welcomed.

Not Eddy Merckx

Ledburyloafer wrote:

Nickwill wrote:

Not David Millar wrote:

It isn't just the White Rose that has been treated this way. Think of the Etape Caledonia - every time someone tries to mention it the thread is deleted. The reason being that the organisation behind it is making a profit!!

Well I did the Etape Caledonia this year and at £49 was seen as expensive but when you consider the closed roads I think it is value for money, so much so that I have already entered for next years event.

My understanding on the demise of the Etape Caledonia on that site, was because it was also promoted as race, with prizes. Or have I got that wrong?

That's correct, as per the explanation given by Cyclosport's editor, Mark Harding, at the time. Etape Caledonia was listed on Cyclosport and discussed in the forum there until the organizers announced that they were awarding prizes (yellow jerseys, if I recall correctly) based on finishing positions and implementing a seeding process for entrants. At that point, in the view of Cyclosport it was no longer a sportif but a race instead and therefore not an event within Cyclosport's discussion/promotion envelope.

That is my recollection - if I am wrong then Mark has my e-mail address and can correct me if he doesn't want to post here himself and thus risk becoming even more embroiled in whatever is happening at present with the whole unfortunate Cyclosport/White Rose Classic organizers row.

Personally, I would say that, if the Etape du Tour and any number of Granfondos are "sportives" then the Etape Caledonia is one, too, even if it follows a continental sportif model rather than a British one. But I understand and respect the fact that we in England & Wales, especially, need to be very, very careful about how we define and promote sportives as there is the little matter of the Bicycle Racing On Highways Act which, if it were ever to start being applied to these events by the police and local authorities, could bring the whole UK sportif boom crashing to a halt quicker and more painfully than Rik Verbrugghe hitting that Armco barrier on Stage 14 of the 2006 TdF. :shock: The fact that the Etape Caledonia was/is, as the name suggests, a Scottish event maybe means they could operate under a different set of road laws in setting up their event.

8)

Not Eddy Merckx

As a cyclist and sportif enthusiast, I hereby call on all parties in this dispute to stop the petty, sniping comments and/or actions, re-establish a constructive dialogue and work together in an equal and respectful spirit of partnership.

To re-post something I posted over on the Cyclosport forums earlier today:

I'm in the dark as to the what, when, how and why of this acrimony within the UK sportif world. I only recently saw the posts in question on [bikeradar.com] and, regardless of who may or may not be in the right, the one and only point that is clear as winter ice (anyone remember that from the days before climate change?) throughout is that this whole thing has gotten out of hand and become damaging to all involved.

Despite being a Californian, I'm not a particular fan of '70s LA rock supergroup The Eagles but I do find that one particular Don Henley lyric generally rings true in these sorts of affairs:

"There's three sides to every story: yours, mine and the cold, hard truth."

Indeed. And whatever the cold, hard truth, as another Californian once said: "Can't we all just get along?"

Finally, as I once said: "Life is short and there are a lot of kilometres to be covered."

Time for everyone to (1) draw a line under whatever's been said or done, (2) agree to disagree if necessary, and (3) get back to focusing on the sport and events we all love.

After all, it's now the Season of Goodwill.

8)

Not David Millar

I'm in the dark as to the what, when, how and why of this acrimony within the UK sportif world. I only recently saw the posts in question on [bikeradar.com] and, regardless of who may or may not be in the right, the one and only point that is clear as winter ice (anyone remember that from the days before climate change?) throughout is that this whole thing has gotten out of hand and become damaging to all involved.

As Not Eddy Merckx has said I too am in the dark and agree whole heartedly that it is time to bury the hatchet.

I would like to see the "Cyclosport" website include all sportives regardless of the finer points which in the long run can attract more people into our pasttime of enjoying the delights of a challenging cycle ride through our wonderful countryside with loads of like-minded people.

For me it will never be a race but a challenge just to finish or do better than the previous attempt.

Why should we have to visit 2 webstes to find info for the same sport.

bobh

BC Yorkshire doesn't have an issue with posting on any forum except when our posts that we consider to be entirely correct and proper are deleted and without explanation. If we have "abused" a forum then let us know what we have done and we will not make the same mistake again. To remove postings without explanations to us and others who have had the same treatment is not in the spirit of a forum. If that "policy" is to continue then we will not contribute because all that happens is that the postings left in place leave visitors with a wholly incorrect interpretation of events.

We make no apologies for being a BC Region and are proud to be that. If that doesn't sit well with someone else then there is absolutely nothing that we can do about that. BC Yorkshire is happy to go with the flow of traditional style Sportives we are not looking to "take over" the operations of others and our intentions are purely to develop the sport and leisure activity...it's oh so simple when blinkers are removed.

pdstsp

Bobh - with the greatest respect I think those of us who merely ride the events would like the people who have fallen out to swallow pride and talk to each other. Not over the forums but person to person. Mark Harding will post his side on cyclosport, you guys will post your side here and there seems to be a mess occurring. These rides are fantastic events for many of us and to have this split will turn people off quicker than a flash of me in lycra.
Not Eddy has summed up the feelings of many people - it is up to those who have fallen out to discuss, compromise and move on.

ledburyloafer

Bobh, got to echo that of not eddy and millar and pdstp, all of you put the wheels back on and get on with promoting, together, and doing what you do best! Organising killer events that we love doing!
talking of which I'm doing your event for the 1st time this year and really looking forward to it.
The wifes going mental already, told her I wouldn't do "repeat rides" this year, still managed to book up most weekends with new ones though, bring it on! :twisted: :twisted:

bobh

Oh that life was so simple. Offers have been made on a number of occassions to talk the thing through to find out even what the problem was/is as so far we have been given no explanation. The offer is still there as certainly I have no wish to fall out and see the demise of what has been a truly excellent forum. There has to be a desire on both sides though for this to work. Until that time we have to keep you informed under other forums as we are not permitted to post, with all log in being denied.

Not Eddy Merckx

As a neutral in this dispute who only wants to see a constructive spirit of cooperation win through in this sport that I love, I urge both sides to immediately cease any and all finger-pointing and/or public delegation of blame, and to begin the necessary steps towards reconciliation, if necessary by using an independent mediator agreeable to all involved.

From within the cyclosportif community, widely-respected people like Dave Lloyd and Peter Harrison could be possibilities in that regard. I have no idea whether they would even want to take on such a role or whether, as potential go-betweens, they would be agreeable to both parties but I do know that they are honest people who love the sport and tell it like it is and therefore might have something of value to offer. I am sure others can name people of similar stature within the sport who would likewise have much to offer in that regard.

8)